FX Royale 400 .177

[hawkeye69]

I own two FX products both in .22, they perform flawlessly and are very well made. But I can't say that every 22 caliber FX makes is flawless. No manufacturing system is 100% perfect and it's certainly possible to get a bad product. But you really can't claim that FX is incapable of making a 177 and has the worst quality control unless you have tested every rifle single that they make.

There are two opposing stories, and we can all speculate about the particulars on each side, but in general the truth usually lies somewhere in between the two.

Regardless, I feel that the manufacturer should have just replaced it or offered a full refund. Even if the buyers expectations are unrealistic, (I am not saying that they were) it's just good business to satisfy an unhappy customer and it pays dividends in the long run.

As an example, AOA is making things right for the customer and for doing so, has likely found a customer for life.

Just my opinion...

 

[CampFussell]

I had a friend who tried an FX barrel in .177 on his .25 Impact and it shot like a scatter gun? He returned the barrel and bought a used Logun Solo for almost what the FX .177 barrel set up costs and the thing is a laser with the LW barrel.

We have John Ford with Tar Heel Air Gun Club with a .177 FX Independence who places first or second in most of his Field Target matches with it. Don't know if it's a smooth twist barrel though? He's one of the few with success if it's a smooth twist?

That being said I shot these three 5 shot groups this evening outdoors in the wind at 28 yds with my newly Shrouded Thomas with LW polygonal barrel. Ernest's group above was pretty good. Now I don't know if Ernest shot his group indoors, but if it was indoors, I would have thought it could have been maybe just a little tighter? Took me three groups to finally get all 5 shots in the 1/4" kz circle, and the wind was dying down by then. Shot off attached bipod with rear bag.

 

[10x]

"BigTinBoat"

"10x"

"BigTinBoat"I have to say that my experience with .177 FX is totally opposite. I just picked up a .177 Wildcat and of the 9 pellets I tried at 25yds. ALL but 3 were under an inch.
AA 10.3, JSB 10.3 and 13.4 were all single hole for 8 shots.

So the OP in this thread would be reasonable to assume that he too should experience a very similar degree of accuracy from his FX .177......
At these airgun prices and as a repeat FX customer with a problem real or imagined, FX needs to satisfy the customer or return his money...
We all would expect that any gun in the $1700-2000 price range to shoot exceptional tight groups with at least one specific pellet....and at these prices there should be zero lemons.

Sure, but here is what he said and the reason I posted MY experience
"So, my question to FX is simply, why the hell are you selling a gun you cannot make? NO one, NO shop should sell anyone a FX airgun in .177. They suck. "
What I have experienced is a complete opposite.
And now since we have heard the other side it appears that Ernest did in fact hand work a barrel for him and posted what looks to me to be a single hole group and a single flyer, but the OP was "demanding" 1/2" at 50-yds? with a .177? Not too sure many manufacturers would make that guarantee.

Bigtin, 
Well now with the ER side of the story and the initial test group shown....I'm thinking the OP justifiably frustrated, has some unreasonable expectations and some unreasonable remarks about FX 177s....
Ernest's efforts and test target demonstrates good faith and an acceptable degree of accuracy for a production gun...the OP can sort pellets, tweak his HST and reg pressure to get that last .002th of accuracy....that's the nature of this game.
As an example;
In powder burner gunland, your Remington 700 will shoot 1moa, expect that....If you want .25moa you're gonna need to send that Remmy off some where for the custom blueprint action, the sellect match barrel and crown all glass bedded in the custom fiber stock.

There are several excellent airgun tuners out there to fit match barrels and perform the tweaks necessary for extreme accuracy...but the guy on the trigger is half of the equation.

 

[DeadEyeDill]

"BigTinBoat"

"DeadEyeDill"

"AirGunShooter"

"DeadEyeDill"It's not just .177s! 
fx has the worst QC for "HIGH END" air rifles. I keep hearing more and more bad things lol
It bet it's frustrating being told 1in groups are up to spec. That alone sounds like bull and the fact that the employee's didnt seem to concerned. 
ernest knows his stuff when it comes to working on things but I think he's in over his head. He went from working on his own on his own time. Now he's got a TON more work and it's on company time now. Now he works there the Fx QC problems won't be a "real" problem to him. But the dude knows alot and can make anything shoot. 
sucks to hear the horrible experience with fx 
The part about FX being the worst QC for high end air rifles is absolutely not true. Geez, talk about exaggerating!! I own three FX rifles and all 3 function and shoot great. As does my brother's FX rifle. Between the two of us we have over 100, 000 rounds through the 4 rifles, all with no problems. I talk to many people at FT events shooting FX and there may be a problem here or there, but I never hear anyone saying FX has the worse QC.

well I only know one person personally that own an fx and he as well had a lot of problems. Sent back to dealer multiple times.
 maybe an exaggeration but from my experience it's not the best 

Ya think?
So a single person with a single FX gun equals----- "fx has the worst QC for "HIGH END" air rifles. I keep hearing more and more bad things lol"
Oh and did you see Ernest reply and pic of the group? Certainly not 1", and certainly not an "uncaring employee". Sounds to me like Ernest went above and beyond by hand lapping 2 barrels

I'm goin off what the OP said and the my experience with them! 
did you see the OP say anything about all the work Ernest did? No! 
ohh and it not a single fx gun by a single fx gun owner. What i was saying is i know just one guy that I can go to his house and physically see he owns an fx airgun. Around here it's not that big of a thing .
But I'm pretty sure I've read alot of ON THIS FORUM about fx issues So yeah where do you see it being one person? 
I guess you didnt understand what I meant by personal experience. I OWN fx guns so I think I would my own experience with the brand.

 

[Thegogg]

I've just bought a .177 FX Royale and I'm absolutely chuffed with it, just as accurate if not better than my HW100 and GSX200 in .177. I appreciate the OP has a problem but I think it's unfair to tar the calibre and brand with the same brush therefore I'd counter his statements by saying "don't be put off by 1 disgruntled buyer's opinion, they're a great rifle".

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

I think it is nice to have CURRENT facts. The OP's first barrel was bad. ( and the barrel shipment misplaced, happens, may be marked/inventoried better due to this incident) Ernest tried to fix accuracy, needed new barrel ( in .177 ) so tried a new one, nope, another new one, nope. WAY more time spent laping than a "good" barrel would ever need, 1 of 2 barrels " okay" after this work. Not the best, not the worst. We now know exactly what FX accuracy standards are. Thank you FX.

As too often it seems a lot of emotion on this thread.
"my new Ford truck rattles! and I cant get it fixed no matter what". "MY Ford has NEVER rattled and I drive over boulders, had one back in...., " he just likes Chevy" ..... .

Once upon a time a company called LW made 15mm .22 barrels 25" in length. These were truly outstanding barrels and many many many were sold, about the #1 choice of there blanks at the time.
Time went by, tooling diminished, quality diminished. THAT particular barrel blank was now not so good, heck awful. In one batch of 10 barrels, 6 ( Six ) were of such poor quality they couldn't be used. Folks had to find a different ( LW ) barrel blank if in .22. LW finally replaced the tooling and all was good again in the 15mm .22 25" blanks.

As it took not only three barrels ( tried ) but also a LOT of time massaging could it be the OP IS onto something? Could it be that the latest greatest run could be getting near the end of it's tooling lif span? Could it be just one run on some Tuesday? Could FX look into it? YES! IF ............... they know about it.

Not a bad group posted by Ernest ( dont know the fellow at all but he seems to be a genuine asset to the airgun community what with the videos and all & always a decent attitude) , NOT a "good" 30 yard group Indoors. Not good enough for FT, certainly wouldn't shoot BR , and, my Gauntlet .177 - indoors on a table- groups much tighter ( have a doubt stop on by ). 
But this group is what FX say's is okay.
I'm sure Ernest did all he could get authorized by FX. FX is his boss and if they say it's fine well...................... .

Until/unless there is some "Official" statement regarding the CURRENT .177 barrels, IF needing tight little groups ( maybe BR/FT ) it might well be a good idea to ask your dealer what they consider accurate and the warranty policy should it not live up to expectations. 

Now to go Off topic.

If you purchased an FX back in say 2001 it very likely groups great, has good wood, has NEVER needed an oring replaced ( long time eh ?) and keeps on ticking. What has changed?

John

 

[BigTinBoat]

"DeadEyeDill"
I'm goin off what the OP said and the my experience with them! 
did you see the OP say anything about all the work Ernest did? No! 
ohh and it not a single fx gun by a single fx gun owner. What i was saying is i know just one guy that I can go to his house and physically see he owns an fx airgun. Around here it's not that big of a thing .
But I'm pretty sure I've read alot of ON THIS FORUM about fx issues So yeah where do you see it being one person? 
I guess you didnt understand what I meant by personal experience. I OWN fx guns so I think I would my own experience with the brand.

Not sure if you are just trolling here, or forgot what you posted. Here is what I commented on - )posted by you)

" well I only know one person personally that own an fx and he as well had a lot of problems. Sent back to dealer multiple times.
maybe an exaggeration but from my experience it’s not the best"

so if you posted this "It’s not just .177s! fx has the worst QC for “HIGH END” air rifles."
based on your 2nd post then I'd say "yeah an exaggeration".

and now you say that YOU own FX guns, well please tell us YOUR experience with those Fx guns.......that would be Personal Experience, not the words of others. It helps people when you provide info on what you have, not just "re-posting" positive or negative comments others have posted. (That's why I posted my own experience with a FX .177.

 

[DeadEyeDill]

"BigTinBoat"

"DeadEyeDill"
I'm goin off what the OP said and the my experience with them! 
did you see the OP say anything about all the work Ernest did? No! 
ohh and it not a single fx gun by a single fx gun owner. What i was saying is i know just one guy that I can go to his house and physically see he owns an fx airgun. Around here it's not that big of a thing .
But I'm pretty sure I've read alot of ON THIS FORUM about fx issues So yeah where do you see it being one person? 
I guess you didnt understand what I meant by personal experience. I OWN fx guns so I think I would my own experience with the brand.

Not sure if you are just trolling here, or forgot what you posted. Here is what I commented on - )posted by you)
" well I only know one person personally that own an fx and he as well had a lot of problems. Sent back to dealer multiple times.
maybe an exaggeration but from my experience it’s not the best"
so if you posted this "It’s not just .177s! fx has the worst QC for “HIGH END” air rifles."
based on your 2nd post then I'd say "yeah an exaggeration".
and now you say that YOU own FX guns, well please tell us YOUR experience with those Fx guns.......that would be Personal Experience, not the words of others. It helps people when you provide info on what you have, not just "re-posting" positive or negative comments others have posted. (That's why I posted my own experience with a FX .177.

I started a thread about the impacts. I talk about all the problems I had with mine. 
I understand you probably lovee fx .

 

[BigTinBoat]

"DeadEyeDill"
I started a thread about the impacts. I talk about all the problems I had with mine. 
I understand you probably lovee fx .

Not sure why, maybe it's me, but it sure seems like you are talking in circles. Why not say that you own an impact? and give YOUR opinion? instead of posting about a neighbor who had a gun and sent it back numerous times? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Not sure why you make a snide comment about me loving FX. I have one FX gun, a .177 Wildcat and it shoots just fine, that's what I posted. Have I EVER posting anything else that would give you reason to make such a comment? Looks like you are just trying to get into an argument. I'll refrain in the future.

 

[shutik]

I've owned FX Impact. I had two barrels, 177 and 22.

22 Was lights out and 177 was OK (inch at 50)

My primary goal was to shoot field target with it and I was not happy with 177 accuracy, so I sold Impact.

I've seen some shooters have lights out accuracy with their 177 FX guns, but mine was not one of them. It was OK, but I expected better out of $2000 gun.

 

[airgun_hack]

I will post the 30 yd target I shot yesterday later this evening. Ernst is correct. When he sent me that target I was stoked. However it was not very long before I was calling him to let him know it was not holding groups under an inch at 30 yds at an indoor range using the same pellets he used. 

 

[airgun_hack]

Attached are the three groups I shot yesterday indoors at 30 yds. 1st one is JSB exact heavy, the same brand Ernst used. 2nd is a different tin
of JSB exact heavy, and the last is Baracuda match. I think everyone is missing the whole point of this post. It was not to degrade or attack Ernst and
what he did or didn't do. The fact that he did all that he said he did already tells me a lot regarding FX and the .177 barrel. One should ask not what
did he do to TRY and make the barrels work, but rather, why did he have to do all that work to try to make a barrel shoot straight? The customer service
was dismal and the fact that the above targets will never do on any gun I or anyone else who puts down a $1,000 or more on a airgun, is the point. How can
I possibly take this to a field target shoot? Why should I NOT expect this gun to shoot just as good as any Daystate? Why would it be acceptable for
FX to tell ANY customer that this is shooting to "Spec". Why are they not standing behind their product and taking responsibility for making a lemon
of a gun, even after TWO additional barrels were tried, that still shoots like crap? Nope, as I said earlier, I love my .22. I will never buy a .177 again from them.
My goal was to simply try and help others from making the same mistake I made and going thru what I have gone thru for the past few months. I am happy
for those of you who have a .177 that shoots 8 shot groups in one hole at 30....40....or 50 yds. Why shouldn't mine? Why shouldn't all of them?

 

[BigTinBoat]

"airgun_hack"

Attached are the three groups I shot yesterday indoors at 30 yds. 1st one is JSB exact heavy, the same brand Ernst used. 2nd is a different tin
of JSB exact heavy, and the last is Baracuda match. I think everyone is missing the whole point of this post. It was not to degrade or attack Ernst and
what he did or didn't do. The fact that he did all that he said he did already tells me a lot regarding FX and the .177 barrel. One should ask not what
did he do to TRY and make the barrels work, but rather, why did he have to do all that work to try to make a barrel shoot straight? The customer service
was dismal and the fact that the above targets will never do on any gun I or anyone else who puts down a $1,000 or more on a airgun, is the point. How can
I possibly take this to a field target shoot? Why should I NOT expect this gun to shoot just as good as any Daystate? Why would it be acceptable for
FX to tell ANY customer that this is shooting to "Spec". Why are they not standing behind their product and taking responsibility for making a lemon
of a gun, even after TWO additional barrels were tried, that still shoots like crap? Nope, as I said earlier, I love my .22. I will never buy a .177 again from them.
My goal was to simply try and help others from making the same mistake I made and going thru what I have gone thru for the past few months. I am happy
for those of you who have a .177 that shoots 8 shot groups in one hole at 30....40....or 50 yds. Why shouldn't mine? Why shouldn't all of them?

What looks SUPER weird is the groups in pic 1 and 3. If you rotate pic 1 90 degrees to the left it pretty much lines up identical to pic #3. How in the world would 2 different brand pellets make patterns with 4 different holes in the exact same place even the tears in the pics seems to be identical. Odd don't you think?

Edit to add the pic rotated. Only difference looks to be the lighting (flash).

 

[airgun_hack]

Sorry, my bad, uploaded the one twice. Here is the other one. Good catch.

 

[AZBOBCAT]

The airgun industry is a hard one to deal with. I designed and prototyped an airgun and I never got around to production for just this reason. Airguns are fairly simple mechanical devices, but people have lots of problems with them from leaks to accuracy issues etc. Most airgunners seem to be do it yourself kind of shooters. Something leaks you fix it something breaks you buy a part and fix it. I can fully disassemble and re assemble a FX 400 in 15 to 20 minutes. But from all the posts and talking to AOA as a one man shop I would never be able to keep up with customer questions and issues. When I say issues I mean things that I consider wear items....orings. If I sold 100 rifles and 10 people sent back guns for orings I could never keep up and still get guns out the door. And then all I would get is negative comments. Yeah I really wish I could do this but unless I had a big investor to take it to more than just me I would never do it. 
To the OP if you are in Arizona I would be more than willing to help you fix this at no charge.

 

[jimmymeyers]

I am really late to this party but I love my impact x in 22 cal and it can be finicky with pellets but after you send an hour or two and tune it it is awesome but once you have it set dont change anything 

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

I think that spysir may be onto something with his postulation about the smooth twist tooling. If you think about it, it really makes sense and would explain the erratic results seen in some .177 FX barrels.



My Royale 400 in .177 ( foolishly traded) was a ringer from day one, and it was purchased 5 to 6 years ago. I had to have a .177 crown though, so it went bye bye. The Crown shoots, but is very unforgiving of my lack of follow through at times, while the Royale was stupidly easy to shoot tiny cloverleafs with. Older smooth twist barrel though, so maybe there is a correlation to theory put out by spysir?