Has anyone found a cure for the FX Panthera shooting slow on first shot or so? Seems fine after a couple shots, but wondering if there is a fix?
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FX FX Panthera first shot
- Thread starter crosman150
- Start date
I tried a viton oring on the front of the valve to see I'd it helps it seems to but I only changed it because it was leaking from that oring and you have to remove the plenum to change it so it's kind of a pain in the a$$
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completely normal for probably all fx panthera dynamic. fire one shot at point blank range and then shoot normally
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The most common culprit for a slow first shot from a regulated PCP is pressure creep. You can monitor for that by observing the regulated pressure just a few seconds after firing, then checking again after it has been idle for an hour. A healthy regulator should not rise by more than 5% or so.
Next up is O-ring stiction, which is the topic Airgunmann is referencing above.
www.airgunnation.com
Next up is O-ring stiction, which is the topic Airgunmann is referencing above.
Tuning - FX Impact Mk2/M3 - slower first shot - no reg creep - quasi-scientific analysis
Hi guys, Welcome everybody. This is my first post here. I have a problem with my Impact Mk2 PP .30. The reg pressure is 145 bars. When I shoot shot after shot then my v0 is 260m/s. However, when the gun sits for a couple of hours then the first shot is 250m/s despite the exact same reg...
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Get around d 1500-2000 rounds and it should fix it. If not just pop a few blank shots then shoot a slug
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I agree, I have 160 bar set on my dynamic, but after half an hour there is 165 bar and it has been holding for more than 24 hoursThe most common culprit for a slow first shot from a regulated PCP is pressure creep. You can monitor for that by observing the regulated pressure just a few seconds after firing, then checking again after it has been idle for an hour. A healthy regulator should not rise by more than 5% or so.
Next up is O-ring stiction, which is the topic Airgunmann is referencing above.
Tuning - FX Impact Mk2/M3 - slower first shot - no reg creep - quasi-scientific analysis
Hi guys, Welcome everybody. This is my first post here. I have a problem with my Impact Mk2 PP .30. The reg pressure is 145 bars. When I shoot shot after shot then my v0 is 260m/s. However, when the gun sits for a couple of hours then the first shot is 250m/s despite the exact same reg...
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The regs take a really long time to settle in to minimal creep. If you have reg adjustment syndrome, it will never settle. Mine was awful at first but now creeps only 2-3bar and I just click up one on the macro for the first shot to compensate. I have 3 Pantheras and none seem to have the stiction that plagued my M3.
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Between creep and sticktion both working against the first shot only other thing you can do is add some hammer and see if you can get it in the area of 20 fps or less for the first shot
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As a gun that's touted as a proper NRL/PRS airgun, I would expect they would try some steps to minimize that. How drastic is the change in FPS
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Wow three panthera’s! I’m wondering if you could answer me a question I was wondering if they have worked out the accuracy issues I’ve seen a couple people complain about shotgun like results as if the groups are as if you blasted the target with a shotgun just not grouping and I don’t want to get a bad panthera did you have any issues with any of yours thanks.
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The first two shots after a while of inactivity or refill hit a little bit down.
Yesterday night I recrown the barrel and make wider the exit hole from the shroud. Now the accuracy of my Panthera become perfect.
Look at these shots at 88 yards:
Yesterday night I recrown the barrel and make wider the exit hole from the shroud. Now the accuracy of my Panthera become perfect.
Look at these shots at 88 yards:
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All of mine shoot extremely well, as shown earlier in this thread and others. The most accurate one is the 22, shooting Altaros 33grain at 890fps but the one that gets most use is the 177 shooting the little Zan ice picks. Based on what I’ve read here, many problems result from people going on a tear of upgrading, reg adjustment, wonky tuning and trying to extract PB performance. Some folks even claim to have taken a drill to the crown to solve a tuning issue! My philosophy is to set them up at 96% (hammer spring), making sure you’re on the downslope of the power curve (easy mistake with this platform). Modest slug speeds (my 22 runs at 890fps, 177s 960-980fps) provide a smooth shot cycle, less stress on valve and higher accuracy. I prefer the Huma regs, particularly ant lower pressures. Regardless, patience is needed over the first few hundred shots to allow a reg to bed in. Constant chasing (adjustment) will prevent any settling and degrade its consistency . Clean the barrel every 200 shots. Enjoy your sub MOA broomstick(s).
I actually hate the look and form but as a slug-shooting tool, they can’t be beat!
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Hello weevil, can you please elaborate a bit more on this statement: “My philosophy is to set them up at 96% (hammer spring), making sure you’re on the downslope of the power curve (easy mistake with this platform).”
You won’t offend if you explain it like I’m in 1st grade
I’m beginning to tune my new Panthera and I like to read everybody’s experiences and advice. I’m currently starting with 30-34 grain slugs from NSA, Zan, and H&N . I have previously tuned my Crown successfully so I’m not completely new to tuning. Thank you for your time.Kenny
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@Kgphotos, he's referring to adjusting the hammer spring tension for the velocity knee. For a given regulator setpoint, there is only one optimal hammer spring setting. Too little produces a wide extreme spread. Too much produces an excess muzzle blast, either of which has the potential to impair accuracy.
The good news is, finding this optimal setting is easy. Gradually increase the tension until the velocity no longer increases. Then back it off until the velocity is about 95-97% of that maximum. (96% in @weevil's reply).
For example, let's say your regulator setpoint is 130 bar and you start gradually adding hammer spring tension. You find the velocity climbs up to 950fps. Meaning if you continue to add more hammer spring tension, the velocity doesn't go any higher. (Note that in some cases, overdriving the valve may cause the velocity to go down, so it's a good idea to gradually step up the HST rather than making huge changes all at once).
So in this hypothetical, it tops out at 950fps. We want 97% of that, or 950*0.97 = 922fps. Back off the HST until it's producing 922fps.
Now check accuracy. If it shows promise, you may then want to try making a small adjustment to the HST to see if it produces a beneficial change to the system harmonics. At that point, it's a trail and error thing but you are starting from a balanced state of tune, and that massively increases your odds of finding its happy place.
The good news is, finding this optimal setting is easy. Gradually increase the tension until the velocity no longer increases. Then back it off until the velocity is about 95-97% of that maximum. (96% in @weevil's reply).
For example, let's say your regulator setpoint is 130 bar and you start gradually adding hammer spring tension. You find the velocity climbs up to 950fps. Meaning if you continue to add more hammer spring tension, the velocity doesn't go any higher. (Note that in some cases, overdriving the valve may cause the velocity to go down, so it's a good idea to gradually step up the HST rather than making huge changes all at once).
So in this hypothetical, it tops out at 950fps. We want 97% of that, or 950*0.97 = 922fps. Back off the HST until it's producing 922fps.
Now check accuracy. If it shows promise, you may then want to try making a small adjustment to the HST to see if it produces a beneficial change to the system harmonics. At that point, it's a trail and error thing but you are starting from a balanced state of tune, and that massively increases your odds of finding its happy place.
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I do not own a Panthera, but I do have a bit of experience with balanced valves and first shot stiction. Using good lubes on the balanced valve's o-rings will help reduce first shot stiction with most balanced valves.
Such as:
Ultimox 226
Krytox GPL205 or GPL207(higher viscosity than 205)
Lubriplate GR-132
These lubes also work very well inside regulators. I prefer the thicker viscosity of Krytox GPL 207
Such as:
Ultimox 226
Krytox GPL205 or GPL207(higher viscosity than 205)
Lubriplate GR-132
These lubes also work very well inside regulators. I prefer the thicker viscosity of Krytox GPL 207
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Thanks nervoustrig. I am going about it just a bit different than you described. What I did was to set the macro power wheel to 13 and the micro wheel to 3 and then with the regulator at 100 BAR. My initial testing is with the NSA 31.2 grain slugs. I slowly began raising the reg 5 BAR at a time while shooting over my chronograph. I went from 100 BAR and slowly climbed up to 130 BAR where I am right now. Each increase in regulator pressure brought a higher velocity. In most cases it was about 10-12 fps for each 5 BAR increase in pressure. Right now at 130 BAR I am at 935 fps. I decided to go up 5 clicks on the micro to see what would happen and at 130 BAR the velocity stayed exactly the same. So that must mean that I am already at maximum hammer tension for my given reg pressure of 130. Is that correct? So I can slowly walk the micro wheel down until I find the point where it balances with the reg setting and then just a bit further to where the velocity starts to drop a little bit. Am I thinking in the right direction? Thanks for your help.
Kenny
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Thanks weevil. My reply to nervoustrig describes where I am right now and what I’ve done so far. Thanks for your reply.
Kenny
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Nervoustrig is the guru. Here is the method I use that accounts for some of the idiosyncrasies of the Panthera:
I first set the reg at a low value by degassing and setting adjustment screw 1 turn out from fully in. For a new gun, I then add air, bring the reg up to 120, set micro to 2 and then dry fire 100 shots to settle it in without wasting ammo. Obviously if the gun is not new, the dry firing can be skipped.
With the reg at 120 and micro at 2, start the process of checking speed and increasing micro 4 clicks at a time to determine the curve, cutting it to 2 clicks when your approaching the peak. If the (peak speed - 4%) is below what you’re aiming for, increase reg by 5 or 10bar and repeat. As you get close to peak speed, the reg increase can be smaller. I go for 96% to allow a little wiggle room for adjusting the micro to get some harmonic variation that may or may not increase accuracy. I find that the Pantheras are not very needy in that sense but can benefit from using the micro wiggle to best offset the effects of reg creep when everything is settled and you’re using the gun on the regular. They all have some creep and are slower to refresh due to the large plenum. If creep and refresh are too bad, plop in a Huma. They can be obtained in three different pressure ranges and you can decide which one will work following tuning with the stock reg.
This method is designed such that you never decrease the reg pressure during tuning. I’m neurotic about not cranking down the adjustment screw into the reg piston surface/disc by reducing the reg pressure when the gun has air.
In your case, I would start at 130bar and micro=2.5 with 2 click increases and 5 shot chrony measurements to really get an accurate sense of the curve. The thing to avoid is being on the wrong side of the curve such that an overdose of hammer is reducing the speed. The Panthera has no mechanism to adjust valve closure so it essential to be on the underhammered side of the curve.
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