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FX Impact M3 vs. CZ 457 .22LR - How close are we getting?

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I do see the point, and if we're going to compare high end guns we really should compare the M3 to a Vudoo or Anschutz, and not a medium quality rimfire. And I also agree that off a solid bench or solid ground, with exact distance and no time constraints, they "might" be close. I also think we're not comparing costs, the topic seems to have been if the Airgun is getting close to the Rimfire in accuracy - 50, 100, 200 yards, etc.

Using the Airgun in NRL-22, PRS, or XFT type competition, the accuracy is still a significant difference with the Rimfire on top. We've seen it for the past year at the Phoenix XFT, and at NRL-22 events across the country. Take a look at the NRL-22 Nationals 2020-2021 to see how close the Slug Airgun is to the high end Rimfire. Out of the 196 entries, the top Airgun shooter finished 111th, and the second Airgun shooter was at 168th.

You can also look at the recent N50 events where the Rimfires routinely outscore the Airguns. Yes, Airguns are making progress, but they still have a ways to go... One factor might be that airguns are just harder to shoot. If you've ever shot off bucket and sticks at 100 yards with both, you know exactly what I mean. I shot my .25 Impact with NSA 43.5 grain slugs (900 FPS) at 100 yards off bucket and sticks, then Mike Smith's .22 Vudoo, and the Rimfire was SO much easier, probably due to the much much shorter lock time....
 
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IMHO, the pcp's have one exquisite attribute over rimfire and that is low Extreme Spreads/ES. Now when we get to the point of 40 grain plus slugs with higher BC, say .2 G1 BC plus, going 1050-ish fps, and the mentioned lower ES, well 22rf will be exceeded as far as long range where the lower ES and higher BC begins to show prowess over current 22rf offerings.

But there are people hand loading 22rf, yes that's actually a thing, this with 50-60gr solid lathe turned copper alloy projectiles with nearly .3 G1 BC at 1300 fps and 7-ish twist rate, so LOL, this competition between pcp and rimfire is interesting how far it can go?????

Price wise the pcp can be expensive, but so can buying a nice rimfire. If I were to buy the rimfire I used in the Phoenix XFT match brand new it'd cost $4200 or so which is about $400-ish more than a new Thomas HPX. Both my pcp/Thomas HPX, and my Anschutz rimfire, are very similar in precision at 50Y using pellets or slugs in the "calm", not so when windy if using pellets, not too different at all when using 42gr 22 cal slugs, heck SURELY might be a hair more precise because my 22rf is not set up for benchrest. Mind you this is at 50Y but there's no comparison the farther the pellet gets from the muzzle compared to my 22rf. However my HPX named SURELY is astounding at distance using 42gr 22 cal swaged slugs, it might be superior at 200Y to my rimfire because of the 10 fps ES (22rf ES is 30 -ish fps) and superior projectile quality??!! In other words shooting SURELY requires slightly more compensation for windage using my slugs with a .142 G1 BC but it likely has less vertical, I don't know for sure yet honestly because I haven't done more than just shoot at steel at farther distances. Initial informal tests so far point to this possibly being true though.

If you want to compare stoutness well even cheap 22rf rifles are for the most part superior as far as holding zero and not having POI shifts compared to most pcp's. THE frailties could easily be engineered OUT of most pcp's, its just a matter of priorities in design. For example on a personal level my old Mac1 USFT and my Thomas HPX are every bit as stout as my 22rf's because they both have thick receivers, solid barrel clamping systems, no barrel bands, or shrouds impinging the barrel, as well as sturdy attachment to the stock or chassis.

Oh and BTW it costs me $149 for lead wire to make 4100 slugs for SURELY, even though the swaging tools cost $$$ I'm quite sure I'll be waaaaay ahead using slugs in a few years as far as ammo goes. When I buy Lapua 22rf ammo again it's going to cost me $1500 or so for 5000 rounds.

I like both my 22rf's and my airguns! Variety is as they say "the spice of life".
 
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I do see the point, and if we're going to compare high end guns we really should compare the M3 to a Vudoo or Anschutz, and not a medium quality rimfire. And I also agree that off a solid bench or solid ground, with exact distance and no time constraints, they "might" be close. I also think we're not comparing costs, the topic seems to have been if the Airgun is getting close to the Rimfire in accuracy - 50, 100, 200 yards, etc.

Using the Airgun in NRL-22, PRS, or XFT type competition, the accuracy is still a significant difference with the Rimfire on top. We've seen it for the past year at the Phoenix XFT, and at NRL-22 events across the country. Take a look at the NRL-22 Nationals 2020-2021 to see how close the Slug Airgun is to the high end Rimfire. Out of the 196 entries, the top Airgun shooter finished 111th, and the second Airgun shooter was at 168th.

You can also look at the recent N50 events where the Rimfires routinely outscore the Airguns. Yes, Airguns are making progress, but they still have a ways to go... One factor might be that airguns are just harder to shoot. If you've ever shot off bucket and sticks at 100 yards with both, you know exactly what I mean. I shot my .25 Impact with NSA 43.5 grain slugs (900 FPS) at 100 yards off bucket and sticks, then Mike Smith's .22 Vudoo, and the Rimfire was SO much easier, probably due to the much much shorter lock time....
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Went to the range today. At the time I went, the Dow was down 700 points and I wanted to blow off some steam. Came back home and found out it was down over 1100 points and came back to +99. Amazing! I was ready to jump off a building, and now I can rest for another day. Go IBM!

Range Outing below:

Temperature 40 degrees, wind 2-4 mph ( tail wind and left to right and visa versa ). I did not deploy flags, lazy! 

Anschutz 64 MPR .22 LR - shooting Eley Match ( black box ), which for this gun is good ammo. It also likes the Lapua Center-X, but today it was Eley. Shot a 241 and 245 with .035" plug. Not bad, could be better. Still working on technique/wind reading.

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Next up,.... Red Wolf Safari shooting the JSB KO's 25g ( my last tin ) - I did have a tough time with some wind calls, but did my best. I would blow a bull with a 7 or 8, then try and figure out wind. Not easy for this boy.

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On this day, the RF did well. I think the 40G bullet bucked the wind better than the 25g slug. I also think I can do better with the Safari, but not today. Just wanted to 'true up' my own experience with a pretty good RF and a good air gun. Your mileage will vary.

Tom


 
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No doubt, there are air rifles available today that can deliver precision accuracy. And on a given day, my best air rifle might shoot better than my best RF. But, when you rely on an instrument that depends on the continuing perfect operation of a bunch of springs, valves, O rings, washers, and with a barrel that is attached in a relatively precarious manner, well, those "given days" are not likely to be the rule. They are both a ton of fun, which is what matters, of course. But when I put my RF in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it's going to shoot the next day. At this point, air rifle technology and build standards just ain't there. Just my opinion, and my wife says I'm always wrong.
 
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No doubt, there are air rifles available today that can deliver precision accuracy. And on a given day, my best air rifle might shoot better than my best RF. But, when you rely on an instrument that depends on the continuing perfect operation of a bunch of springs, valves, O rings, washers, and with a barrel that is attached in a relatively precarious manner, well, those "given days" are not likely to be the rule. They are both a ton of fun, which is what matters, of course. But when I put my RF in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it's going to shoot the next day. At this point, air rifle technology and build standards just ain't there. Just my opinion, and my wife says I'm always wrong.
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“ But when you rely on an instrument that depends ….” But when I put my RF’s in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it’s going to shoot the next day,” 

I could not agree more. Love both RF and air guns for their respective benefits, but Air guns have a ways to go to match RF! 



 
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No doubt, there are air rifles available today that can deliver precision accuracy. And on a given day, my best air rifle might shoot better than my best RF. But, when you rely on an instrument that depends on the continuing perfect operation of a bunch of springs, valves, O rings, washers, and with a barrel that is attached in a relatively precarious manner, well, those "given days" are not likely to be the rule. They are both a ton of fun, which is what matters, of course. But when I put my RF in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it's going to shoot the next day. At this point, air rifle technology and build standards just ain't there. Just my opinion, and my wife says I'm always wrong.
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“ But when you rely on an instrument that depends ….” But when I put my RF’s in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it’s going to shoot the next day,” 

I could not agree more. Love both RF and air guns for their respective benefits, but Air guns have a ways to go to match RF! 


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X3


 
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No doubt, there are air rifles available today that can deliver precision accuracy. And on a given day, my best air rifle might shoot better than my best RF. But, when you rely on an instrument that depends on the continuing perfect operation of a bunch of springs, valves, O rings, washers, and with a barrel that is attached in a relatively precarious manner, well, those "given days" are not likely to be the rule. They are both a ton of fun, which is what matters, of course. But when I put my RF in the cabinet after a day at the range, I know exactly how it's going to shoot the next day. At this point, air rifle technology and build standards just ain't there. Just my opinion, and my wife says I'm always wrong.
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Yes, good points. 



Air rifles will always be subject to temperature. Even powder burners are subject to that and altitudes to some degree but it's a big difference. 

Since airguns are inherently subjected to temperature fluctuations, use regulators and plenums to store charges of air and such they'll probably always be less reliable than a similar caliber powder burner when it comes to accuracy, off the shelf. 

I don't think my airgun is equal to a powder burner any more than I think an electric car is equal to a internal combustion engine vehicle.

Powder burners create a lot more pressure in the chamber than airguns. This requires a different build, including solid steel around the bolt and chamber. Even the Smith and Wesson M&P 15 22 has a steel bolt, barrel and chamber. But not a steel lower, it's plastic... 

Now when it comes to muzzle velocity or energy down range I am very pleased with how some airguns can compete with powder burners. But the trade offs are not one dimensional. 
 
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@centercut: great point on shooting off a stick or bucket, impact is VERY sensitive to hold so definitely much harder to shoot. The crown is much better in that regard but no where near the power/performance of a 22LR. In that context no airgun I know is even remotely close but on a bench Impact is getting close if you know what you are doing and have better BC ammo……ok impact still needs a lot of help and it’s not quite close most of the time. LOL 
 
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here are a couple N50 targets I shot at Rio Salado in their crazy wind conditions in the N50 Pro Class. In pro class you are scored with a.224 plug and not a 35 caliber one. This was shot with a Thomas Benchrest Slug gun and slugs were made by me. The rifle will shoot with a.22 LR Benchrest rifle. The nut behind the trigger is the big factor. It is a big eye opener no to be scored with a.35 plug. I don’t practice with it and shoot it maybe 2 times a month. It is a tack driver but I also have a Vudoo tactical rifle. I have to give the edge to the Vudoo but the more I shoot the Thomas the better I am getting with it. It is very capable to consistently shoot in the high 240’s if not 250’s. On the Extreme FT and NRL22 matches the .22LR in my humble opinion wins hands down. Just for anyone’s information my other card was a 239 12 x. 
Let the barbs begin!
 
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Wow, this thread really did go all over the map, and there is so much that could be said. Luckily most people have covered the important points, and most of them actually shoot both 22lr and air rifles or have been around people shooting both in competitions. 

I came over to air rifles because quality rimfire ammo has gotten expensive. Sure CCI can do ok on occasion, but in real competition for precision shooting, it doesn’t cut it, so comparing a CZ with CCI isn’t a great comparison. I wouldn’t even be happy with CCI in my back yard for precision shooting. My old Impact or my current Crown can beat my old stock CZ with CCI. You do have to pay up to CenterX and higher when the scores matter, and no matter the rifle, that cost difference to pellets adds up fast. I happily shoot 500 or more rounds per sitting now and would not have done that with CenterX or even SK RM, heck didn’t even with CCI. That price catches up quickly. 

I know the comparison was an Impact to a CZ and it made sense for his generic question of are they catching up. You can make the argument that they definitely are. Won’t beat them every day but are catching up. I can beat base 22lr with my Crown and pellets at 50 yards in calm conditions, but if ultimate accuracy were the goal, I would go back to rimfire. I’m not beating the Vudoos in our local fun paper target matches.

I’m not sure the price comparison makes any sense either. If you are happy with a stock CZ, you are happy with much less than an Imapct too. I have owned 4-5 CZ’s, so I know. I also ended with a Vudoo, that was a better rifle than any CZ I had stock or built up. Compare Impact prices with that $3000+ Vudoo, and the price difference in favor of air rifles becomes MUCH more significant. 

Comparing the Vudoo, KIDD, CZ’s, etc, I’ve owned and my current favorite Crown, I would much rather have my cheaper Crown (or even my old Red Wolf), shooting accurately, quieter, cheaper, and safer (lower BC has some advantages). The quality air rifles I’ve owned have definitely caught up enough that I am much happier and shoot much more with my air rifles.

I didn’t say the Crown would beat them all, but it is close enough that I would rather shoot it. 
 
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Good thread, but not complete. The airgun does cost more up front, but easily becomes much less expensive over time than a PB. Consider you cannot shoot your PB in your backyard legally. You can buy or make a silencer/moderator for your airgun legally and pellets are safer than slugs or bullets because they fall out of the air quickly. I do not want ranges beyond 100 meters. I never go to a shooting range. I shoot only at home. How much fuel and time does that save? I shoot every day and I shoot more than 10,000 rounds a year. There is no way i could afford to do that with a PB and I have not mentioned the accuracy advantage yet and it is there as well.
 
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And in the RF world, that CZ is like a daisy in our AG world.
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Not really. CZ makes excellent barrels, and that's the only component that absolutely has to be excellent for precision accuracy. Everything else is ergonomics of some sort. A good trigger makes a big difference in the ease (or difficulty) of shooting the rifle well, but it makes it no more accurate. Same can be said of the stock, bolt operation, etc. But in terms of the mechanical production of accuracy, most CZ rifles compare well with much more expensive rifles. Which may have little to do with pride of ownership.
 
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Everyones got great, and valid points, including the super soaker comment that was actually pretty funny. But it seems were missing the point of HAVING FUN. I dont care if Im shooting a red ryder or a 50bmg its a blast! If we wanna do a cool comparison, do a zues or something against a black powder muzzle loader, would be cool!
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👆👆👆👆👆 Amen brother!! 


 
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