Fx impact and slug tuning

Hi i am trying to get my impact to shoot some 25gr slugs

i have power tuned it for 1000fps (7fps spread)



but how do you guys go about hammonic tunning it with the new valve spring?



i set up a target at 30m and 100m and shoot 3 shot groups and adjusting the VA 1/8 at the time and when i get 3 shoots that touches each other i go out to 100m to confirm, but i dont have so much luck with this.

am i doing something wrong or do you guys have some tips 
 
It is the jsb KOs i am shooting, people are saying that they shot good but likes High speeds.

25gr i shoot 960-970fps, extreme accuracy but results will vary. 

As for the valve adjuster, i never use it. I just remove it completely. I call bullpoop on the people who say you need it for "harmonic tuning", load of crap.

so how do you go about it when tunning?
 
That way of tuning werqs quite well even without a chrony it is the way I tune. If it does not werq at that reg pressure lower it a little, relax the hammer spring pressure and the valve adjuster a bit and start all over. If you don't have a slug barrel you may have troubles finding many slugs that shoot decent. If you have a pellet barrel try the FX Hybrids or the Varmint Knockers. They shoot great in them. I am shooting a .25 MK1 with 700mm slug barrel and the 36.2gr NSA at 950-980fps @ 200 yards and hitting spray paint cans often several times in a row. So the tune werqs very well indeed. 

Lets not forget that just because you are trying to tune for a specific slug/pellet does not mean the gun will shoot it well.
 
Fire_at_will

25gr i shoot 960-970fps, extreme accuracy but results will vary. 

As for the valve adjuster, i never use it. I just remove it completely. I call bullpoop on the people who say you need it for "harmonic tuning", load of crap.



That’s a very bold statement. Let me explain why I feel it is also a very ignorant statement (calm down… I said ignorant, not stupid… there’s a big difference).

I think you're missing the point of the valve adjuster. I understood the primary purpose of the valve adjuster to be a tool for air efficiency. The VSA's primary purpose is to time the closing of the valve to just before the pellet leaves the end of the barrel, so there is no wasted air released after the pellet is no longer using that air for propulsion. If the valve is still releasing air after the pellet leaves the barrel, you're just blowing air out the barrel, and needlessly reducing your onboard air supply.

Because the VSA does change the velocity of the pellet once it is in the effective range of adjustment, it most certainly does have a secondary effect on harmonic tuning of the airgun. To offer a really simplified illustration/explanation, in a perfect world of no movement when holding on your POA, your barrel is still, lined up on your POA. When the airgun fires, harmonic vibrations travel through the gun and barrel, and the barrel oscillates around the POA it was holding. For a simple illustration, let's say the barrel just oscillates up and down. As it oscillates up and down, it will swing up to its highest point (moving away from the POA on the high side, causing wider groups if the projectile exits here). It will then swing back down, passing through the mid-point of the oscillation (where it is back on the POA, causing tighter groups if the projectile exits here), continuing down to the lowest point of the oscillation (again moving away from the POA on the low side, causing wider groups if the projectile exits here). "Harmonic tuning" for accuracy is all about timing the projectile to exit the barrel while it is oscillating up or down as close as possible to that center point of the of the oscillation, where it is back on the POA. We control that timing by adjusting the projectile velocity through the barrel, speeding it up or slowing it down to time its exit from the barrel at the sweet-spot of that gun's harmonic vibration oscillations. This could require an incredibly small change in velocity, and this is where the VSA comes in... it provides much finer control over the projectile velocity than an adjustment in regulator pressure or hammer spring tension (which can also significantly change the oscillation, so now you're trying to hit a moving target).

Keep in mind, changing the regulator pressure and the hammer spring tension will more significantly change the harmonic vibrations of firing the airgun. One could think of it as adjusting regulator pressure and HST will set the harmonic vibrations, and can be a coarse adjustment, then the VSA will allow you fine adjustment to “tune” to those vibrations/oscillations.

If this explanation is giving a reasonable picture of what is going on, you should then be able to understand that a more accurate explanation of harmonic tuning doesn't require that the projectile exit the barrel while oscillating past its original POA, but rather that it just exit the barrel at as close to the same point in the given oscillation every time. This will give the tightest groups, even if POA and POI do not match.

If my above stated understanding of the harmonic tuning process is bullpoop, and using the VSA in this process is a load of crap, please offer and explanation of why, supported by the physics of firing an FX Impact, because if you are correct, I am the ignorant one, and have a LOT to learn that I thought I understood.
 
Before any advise, what scope are you using?

Have you adjusted the trigger properly?

If you get one hole groups at 30, then you should see similar results out further.

Two things ive noticed over the years on 100+ yard accuract is, parallax error, are you using quality scope? The other is overtravel in the trigger, make the shooter pull more shots.

Also are you just getting flyers, or are they just all over the place?

Just my experience. 
 
Fire_at_will

25gr i shoot 960-970fps, extreme accuracy but results will vary. 

As for the valve adjuster, i never use it. I just remove it completely. I call bullpoop on the people who say you need it for "harmonic tuning", load of crap.



That’s a very bold statement. Let me explain why I feel it is also a very ignorant statement (calm down… I said ignorant, not stupid… there’s a big difference).

I think you're missing the point of the valve adjuster. I understood the primary purpose of the valve adjuster to be a tool for air efficiency. The VSA's primary purpose is to time the closing of the valve to just before the pellet leaves the end of the barrel, so there is no wasted air released after the pellet is no longer using that air for propulsion. If the valve is still releasing air after the pellet leaves the barrel, you're just blowing air out the barrel, and needlessly reducing your onboard air supply.

Because the VSA does change the velocity of the pellet once it is in the effective range of adjustment, it most certainly does have a secondary effect on harmonic tuning of the airgun. To offer a really simplified illustration/explanation, in a perfect world of no movement when holding on your POA, your barrel is still, lined up on your POA. When the airgun fires, harmonic vibrations travel through the gun and barrel, and the barrel oscillates around the POA it was holding. For a simple illustration, let's say the barrel just oscillates up and down. As it oscillates up and down, it will swing up to its highest point (moving away from the POA on the high side, causing wider groups if the projectile exits here). It will then swing back down, passing through the mid-point of the oscillation (where it is back on the POA, causing tighter groups if the projectile exits here), continuing down to the lowest point of the oscillation (again moving away from the POA on the low side, causing wider groups if the projectile exits here). "Harmonic tuning" for accuracy is all about timing the projectile to exit the barrel while it is oscillating up or down as close as possible to that center point of the of the oscillation, where it is back on the POA. We control that timing by adjusting the projectile velocity through the barrel, speeding it up or slowing it down to time its exit from the barrel at the sweet-spot of that gun's harmonic vibration oscillations. This could require an incredibly small change in velocity, and this is where the VSA comes in... it provides much finer control over the projectile velocity than an adjustment in regulator pressure or hammer spring tension (which can also significantly change the oscillation, so now you're trying to hit a moving target).

Keep in mind, changing the regulator pressure and the hammer spring tension will more significantly change the harmonic vibrations of firing the airgun. One could think of it as adjusting regulator pressure and HST will set the harmonic vibrations, and can be a coarse adjustment, then the VSA will allow you fine adjustment to “tune” to those vibrations/oscillations.

If this explanation is giving a reasonable picture of what is going on, you should then be able to understand that a more accurate explanation of harmonic tuning doesn't require that the projectile exit the barrel while oscillating past its original POA, but rather that it just exit the barrel at as close to the same point in the given oscillation every time. This will give the tightest groups, even if POA and POI do not match.

If my above stated understanding of the harmonic tuning process is bullpoop, and using the VSA in this process is a load of crap, please offer and explanation of why, supported by the physics of firing an FX Impact, because if you are correct, I am the ignorant one, and have a LOT to learn that I thought I understood.

I dindt say it dosent work, all i said is you dont need it for accuracy. If you dont belive that i will prove it!
 
First let me thank chuck for that great explanation yout right on, that is how i understand it to.

but do you feel it is different with the spring instead of the rubber ball?

dos it need smaller adjustments or more then the rubber ball?



seccund.

i use a athlon midas tac. I know about parallax, i also shot from bipod and rearbag to eleminede as much user error as possible.

My shots on 100y is 2” groups but all over the place.



one thing i have noticed on the fx smx barrel system and feel free to correct me but that is that the pellet or slug can curve for example if you shoots at 30y 50y and 100y sometimes it seems to me like the 50y POI can be of to the right and back in at 100y have any of you noticed that to?



if so then it is very importen to test at diffentent distenceys as well.
 
but do you feel it is different with the spring instead of the rubber ball?

dos it need smaller adjustments or more then the rubber ball?



Yes, definitely different. I think over time the spring will be more consistent over a rubber ball that deteriorates and will develop flat spots.

I guess I would initially say I think the adjustment is finer with the spring, as I think it has a larger effective range. By that I mean the knob starts having an effect much sooner with the spring than with the ball. With the ball, I think it was pretty universal that turning the knob in had no effect until it got to about that fourth line. With the spring version, it seems to affect things well before you get to the lines. Still thinking this through and need a little more adjustment experience to evaluate, as I've only had one brief chronograph session since installing the PP.

 
I have installed a power plenum in my impact. The new valvespring has a wider adjustement range than the rubber ball. Adjusting from an imaginary 5th line, and down to 4, almost has no effect (on my tune). Adjusting further down from 4 to 2, things slowly starts to happen. Once you have passed ring 2, and down to 1, minor adjustements are more noticable. Basically the longer down each ring, the more sensitive the adjustement is. The rubber ball worked differently, as if you passed out ring 3, it did maybe not touch the valve pin at all (all depending on tune and powerlevel), and adjusting it any further out had no effect. With the ball you have to find the spot where it starts to touch the valvepin, which will probably be different, all depending on how the rest of the gun is tuned. The spring is engaged all the time since it replace the former internal spring. The sensivity of the spring will probably also be different depending on how the gun is tuned, as it works together with the reg pressure.