FX FX guns WITHOUT POI Shift Issues

[Arzrover]

Stress free living. No topics like this to seek out for help or reassurance. You must be crazy.

Probably... but the poor tolerances here and there and delicate or after thought engineering in the Fx's just doesn't do it for me. I started with a Tarantula and a lot of things about it are pretty incredible... like the exhaust valve design, but things like the trigger and hammer system are not that good. Similar issues with the Impact but had a number of tolerance issues in it. The Royale is probably the best thing they've made that I've experienced...
At my age, just trying to shoot what I enjoy and wade through the long list of projects that have accumulated...
Bob

 

[Joedirt199]

Guess that explains the huge aftermarket support of items designed to make the factory product better.

 

[Airgun Al]

Guess that explains the huge aftermarket support of items designed to make the factory product better.

And thus, POI issues.

 

[mubhaur]

There is a point.

The POI shift is rather a relative thing.

For casual shooters and most hunters the slight POI shift is not a problem.

For keen precession shooters I mostly find that even a slight POI shift is a problem.

Royal 400 is great in POI consistency.

I understand that one of the reasons of keeping the liners inside the cylinder or plenum in Panthera and DRS is to avoid POI shift.

Almost all the PCP models of FX are currently being made on liner system. So changing the liner system means redesigning of all the models of FX as far as the balance of the gun is concerned.

The liners are very accurate but are mostly unsuccessful in creating a consistantly precise and accurate truck gun.

Many users having liner system using the gun in their trucks complain about this issue while similar users of Cricket do not face this issue.

Bhaur

 

[matijann]

1300usd firearm barrel straightness testing vs 2200usd pcp barrel straightness testing

 

[HogKiller]

1300usd firearm barrel straightness testing vs 2200usd pcp barrel straightness testing

View attachment 502253

I'm moderately certain that their definition of 'straight' is significantly different than mine. They MAY be 'straight' prior to the lands being pressed in but I've got serious doubts that tube remains within .001" over 600mm I've rolled mine on a granite counter top, sorry but my certified surface plate wasn't available, and they were most definitely deformed. Honestly for how they are made they are pretty good.

 

[bigHUN]

.... I've rolled mine on a granite counter top..... sorry but my certified surface plate wasn't available, and they were most definitely deformed. Honestly for how they are made they are pretty good.

I did several that same roll test, and realized as well that actually nothing proves.
The barrel tube can be bent, also the barrel attachment and the transfer port... so basically four parts attached together with machined threads and each can have a run out.
But the liner is supported on two very ends only and no hard contact to any outer metal part other then couple orings. The liner is pressed between the liner lock and the brass transfer port. Yes, stretching like a guitar string would be better but how to make that is a science fiction.

 

[CoyoteGod]

I use barrel bands on FX rifles when I can. I like that saber tactical provides them in their rails and they work well. Other than that I use black arts barrel bands. Took away any noticeable POI shifts. But to be fair only noticed POI shifts on my first Impact MK2 a few times back in 2020, but that got fixed with a new rail and a carbon sleeve when I could afford to upgrade the parts. Barrel band just sealed the deal. However, I am still careful not to be stupidly rough with the impacts. Have you guys checked out saber tactical’s new M4 full length backbone rail? I got one for my M3. Man it sure is nice. Really locks the impact together like the airmarksman backbone, but more sleek, lower profile, and integrated barrel band.

 

[CoyoteGod]

There is a point.

The POI shift is rather a relative thing.

For casual shooters and most hunters the slight POI shift is not a problem.

For keen precession shooters I mostly find that even a slight POI shift is a problem.

Royal 400 is great in POI consistency.

I understand that one of the reasons of keeping the liners inside the cylinder or plenum in Panthera and DRS is to avoid POI shift.

Almost all the PCP models of FX are currently being made on liner system. So changing the liner system means redesigning of all the models of FX as far as the balance of the gun is concerned.

The liners are very accurate but are mostly unsuccessful in creating a consistantly precise and accurate truck gun.

Many users having liner system using the gun in their trucks complain about this issue while similar users of Cricket do not face this issue.

Bhaur

Although there are lots of options for very accurate truck Airguns out there, like an RTI P3 or an AGT Uragan, many do own and very much enjoy for example an Impact. I do think FX and their liner system is hardy enough to be used as a truck gun hunting set up with lots of success and enjoyment. I use an Impact all the time for hunting without any issues. An example where this would be needed is for the sportsman that can only afford one high end airgun with the needed accessories. He/she chooses FX as many of us do. With the right modifications and the right tune, their airgun can and will be very robust and very capable in the field as well as be able to transition to the bench and compete with a high degree of accuracy. Can FX keep their designs and make them more robust? Absolutely, especially with the many contributors that have come and gone with ideas they have used over the years. Much like your amazing fix to regulator creep. Their designs can be improved on but keep FX from having to completely revamp their whole rifle lineup. CNC machining is really coming in to its own and FX has no excuse not to really get their modular barrel system improved.

 

[wijib]

My new Royale (the last walnut 400 made) is fine. No POI shift. The way I have the barrel in the tripod is for photographic purposes only.

5 shots 25 yds

 

[SilentSquirrel]

My new Royale (the last walnut 400 made) is fine. No POI shift. The way I have the barrel in the tripod is for photographic purposes only.
View attachment 570368View attachment 570369
View attachment 570370

5 shots 25 yds

My understanding is that none of the Royale-Boss platform guns showed signs of POI shift that was not externally induced.
If one considers my experience as valid (70 yards and below) , then it is certainly true.
just my too mrad
Edward

 

[villaman]

One of the worst problems hanging chronograph on the barrel

 

[Motorhead]

Of the 6 FX's that have passed threw my hands these past 14 years or so, only two retained a solid POI w/o shift issues.
That was an original ROYAL 400 and a 500 with the 15mm LW barrels ( Pre smooth twist ) These original 5 FX's are long ago sold off.

My only FX in possession is a Dreamline Tactical and it now uses a custom fitted 16mm STEYR barrel off an LG110.
It is stellar accurate and does not shift in POI as the liner system barrel did.
** Tho will state a small amount of shift does happen with extreme temperature changes and feel this due to the LEGO nature of the guns design where the scope rail bolts to receiver block and also the folding stock block.
Such a design in no way can be as full spectrum solid as a billet one piece mono block receiver / rail configuration.

 

[Joedirt199]

Pulled out one Dreamline to find the reg is now creeping to the point of max reg pressure after sitting for a while. The other one I was going to try and do the liner clock test and first shots out of the gate were no where near the previous zero. I think I am over this straw liner and paper thin shroud. I have added carbon tubing to the liner and over the shroud, extra liner spacers and still this thing loses poi just sitting in the case. Time to try and rig a Royal style steel shroud with liner lock nut on the end. I am over this lightweight barrel system.

 

[AJ_Roberts]

No POI shift with the 380mm .177 M4 Micro

 

[rokonman]

No POI change from my .25 Dreampup. It came with the barrel band from Utah air. I pulled the barrel as soon as I received it and added duct tape around the barrel spacers to keep them in place. I also make a point of removing the moderator when it’s in the case on the way to the range.

 

[Ratzy]

Bobcat .30
Boss .30
Royale .25
No issues

 

[Florida_Man]

My Royale 400 of course had no issuess
The Revere I bought, after selling a Maverick with a floating POI, has had no issues

 

[engfred]

Hi other shooters.

I had an FX Crown for 5 years and I don't understand the problems you are talking about.

To evaluate a rifle, I always shoot a benchrest target.
Most rifles can do a one hole group on 25 meters and some even on 50 meters.

The problem is not always where the first shot hits. My challenge comes when moving between targets - that's why I shoot on a benchrest target.

Do your best get the scope sited in properly.
And then you aim and shoot one pellet in each of the 25 target.
Then take a look where did the pellets go.......
Here we can talk hold position, eye position, Proper diopter settings. And most important how Rigid is your rifle.

The first thing you will notice when shooting from a fixed bipod. That the slightest twist due to resistance from the bipod will throw the pellets a bit off target.

My worst rifle for this was the Avenger gen1. It could shoot a magazine through a single hole, but when moving on benchrest target it was all over the place.
The second most hold sensitive rifle was my FX Crown Gen. 1. rifle with walnut wood stock.
I tried everything - Bottle band with picatinny rail was awful - with this it was just as bad as the Avenger.
So i fixed a small picatinny rail at the front of the stock. (And the stock has to be tightened properly)
Best was a mini tripod with a ball head so it could rotate left to right without creating twist forces to the rifle.

Then I bought a Daystate Redwolf. This was much more friendly - even with a bottle / picatinny clamp.
With the Redwolf it is easy to move the aim sidewards or upwards and still it will hit where you aim. The rifle is just so forgiving.

Then I bought a Delta Wolf and the problem was also quite bad here - even with the rigid aluminium frame.
With an original Barrel clamp upgrade the rifle went from "rubberish" to steel - rock solid feeling.
This made the Delta Wolf a ridgid design where the barrel adds extra stability like a extra strong spar is introduced. looking at the feeling you get from shooting a benchrest target afterwards - it is a must upgrade for all Ghost, Delta- Alpha- wolf shooters.

Then i sold my Crown and bought an Impact M4 Sniper.

The M4 is better than my Crown in any way.
But its a stability wise it is a rookie rifle compared to both my daystates. Very hold sensitive - always secure the grip is equal, the pull against your shoulder, downt twist move the rifle sideways - equal weight distribution. There is room for improvements.
I have not purchased any Barrel clamp system, since I have seen several test that says accuracy is decreasing.
Unfortunately there is from what i know, not any M4 barrel clamp systems where you can keep the nice double picatinny rails available yet. So i continue fighting the M4 when i shoot bench rests targets.

Attached a sample of how this is pretty easy to shoot with a Redwolf or Delta Wolf

Happy shooting from Denmark

 

[Trucker3573]

I think people read about this and then have the problem. We shoot very light projectiles at very low speeds. All kinds of things are going to effect poi. I believe slight shifts are normal. I watch whoteewho on YouTube. He is doing a series called will it hunt. He’s doing it in all sorts of calibers. He starts off with a 100 yard zero and then a chrono test to make drop charts. These are all guns previously zeroed perfectly at 100. Almost every single one needs a slight tweak from where it was previously zeroed. It isn’t uncommon.