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Fx crown Regulator creep???

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Bajahunter

Bajahunter

Member
Dec 9, 2018
74
4
California
Hello... Me again asking for help/advise 

Today I was tuning my 25 cal crown with the 33.9 jsb pellets. Everything was fun until I shot the chrony on the screen... The tuning session was over right there.

The good thing is that I managed to get 890 fps at 155 bars before I found out that these F1 chronys can't take a pellet like a man.

What has me going nuts is that after a few shots I saw the regulator back on 150 when it was clearly showing around 155 bars.

I know the gauges aren't the most accurate on the market... But .. Could this be a gauge error or regulator issue? Is this the creep everyone talks about?



My crown is supposed to be a third gen with the amp regulator. No mods were done to the belleville washers. Even with the full tank... The regulator wasn't back on 155.

What could cause this? 
 
After test a lot of chronys (use to have caldwells and Chrony, and I sold them), the one that works best for me is the cheapest one (I guess is the exception of the rule you get what you pay for)...I attach it that direct to the barrel (simple install), just with the sponge that comes in any pellet tin and bit of pressure, and always read the fps, when not is usually because is not aligned. I bought 2 (in case one fails) and still using the first one with CERO issues (after more than a year). Is not a labradar for sure jajaja but gives you the speed read needed to tune your gun. Here is the link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-Hunting-Chronograph-Shooting-Speed-Tester-X3200-Chrono-Airsoft-BB-Shooting/183242204353 (you can see it in my avatar too)

Regarding the reg, I am with @spray1mark 
 
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I finally chopped out the FX gauges for the Huma ones on the Crown. https://www.huma-air.com/Fx-Crown-replacement-pressure-gauge

The FX bottle gauge was definitely off compared to my main bottle and hand pump gauges and I’m pretty sure the reg one wasn’t great either. These I definitely feel more confident in. I’m was swapping out the reg for a Huma version, although my Crown doesn’t have the AMP version. Huma also just released a reg replacement for the AMP version too, although that FX reg is supposed to be more stable apparently. 
 
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I think it's something all fx regulator do. On my Impact x .25, I set to about 140. Needle right on the 1 (150). I leave it for few hours or over night and it would go past the 1. Near the 5. I shoot it and it goes back to right on the 1. Leave it over night and it goes past the 1 again. Don't like the little creep but what can you do. Spend $2000 on it. Don't want to spend more on a huma reg. 
 
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I have a puzzle with the Crown AMP reg, I got my hands on a slug liner and was testing it, so I increased the reg pressure to 150 bar and after 2 mags of shooting the reg pressure had dropped to 140 bar. I contacted fx and was told to just reset the reg back to 150 said the springs might be seating in? After testing one mag full the reg had crept up to 152 bar. I let it sit over night and today the reg read 150 so I started testing again but after one mag I found the reg had moved down again to 145 bar. WTF is going on? Anyone have any ideas? 
 
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Hello... Me again asking for help/advise 

Today I was tuning my 25 cal crown with the 33.9 jsb pellets. Everything was fun until I shot the chrony on the screen... The tuning session was over right there.

The good thing is that I managed to get 890 fps at 155 bars before I found out that these F1 chronys can't take a pellet like a man.

What has me going nuts is that after a few shots I saw the regulator back on 150 when it was clearly showing around 155 bars.

I know the gauges aren't the most accurate on the market... But .. Could this be a gauge error or regulator issue? Is this the creep everyone talks about?



My crown is supposed to be a third gen with the amp regulator. No mods were done to the belleville washers. Even with the full tank... The regulator wasn't back on 155.

What could cause this?
Click to expand...

I've had the same problem with the reg pressure moving down too. Had mine set to 150 and after two mag it was at 140. Did you find anything out about what's going on? 
 
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It's hard to say when the gauge and the reg have a little creep inherent in the design.

If i had to guess, On the crown the gauge is made up of very small linkages, each one having a little slop, there are some gauges that will react to a light tap to the outer case or between shot cycles, these linkages reset to different resting spots, resulting in the gauge arm falling to a different reading, even if the reg is exactly the same between shots. I have unfortunately delidded the gauge on the crown while removing the stock, so I have looked into the little bugger.

So this behaviour you are seeing could be just this.

The creeping regulator is usually after the gun has rested for a while like overnight or after a long delay between shots while pesting. Actually, most regulated guns suffer from it to more or less of a degree. tuning the hammer to the "knee" of a given reg pressures power curve can and does help to mask the creep issue, as tuning to the knee results in better consistency through the power curve and slight increases in how the regulator valve reacts to the dropping main air tank pressure decreasing from shot to shot. I found out that the reg piston seal is supported by springs, and tank pressure, so when the tank empties the spring system has differing resistance to work against, this means differing regulated pressure through the string.

Its a balance, and I don't have the answer unfortunately, but I think that higher reg pressures require finer tuning of hammer to mitigate the dreaded creep through the full range of operation, I also need to do more research on high vs low volume main air cylinders, as I have a hunch that low volume cylinders like my bobcat or Vulcan also mask this issue as the working volume of air is less, and lastly, some regulators are actually just bad, needing o rings or new sealing surfaces.




 
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It's hard to say when the gauge and the reg have a little creep inherent in the design.

If i had to guess, On the crown the gauge is made up of very small linkages, each one having a little slop, there are some gauges that will react to a light tap to the outer case or between shot cycles, these linkages reset to different resting spots, resulting in the gauge arm falling to a different reading, even if the reg is exactly the same between shots. I have unfortunately delidded the gauge on the crown while removing the stock, so I have looked into the little bugger.

So this behaviour you are seeing could be just this.

The creeping regulator is usually after the gun has rested for a while like overnight or after a long delay between shots while pesting. Actually, most regulated guns suffer from it to more or less of a degree. tuning the hammer to the "knee" of a given reg pressures power curve can and does help to mask the creep issue, as tuning to the knee results in better consistency through the power curve and slight increases in how the regulator valve reacts to the dropping main air tank pressure decreasing from shot to shot. I found out that the reg piston seal is supported by springs, and tank pressure, so when the tank empties the spring system has differing resistance to work against, this means differing regulated pressure through the string.

Its a balance, and I don't have the answer unfortunately, but I think that higher reg pressures require finer tuning of hammer to mitigate the dreaded creep through the full range of operation, I also need to do more research on high vs low volume main air cylinders, as I have a hunch that low volume cylinders like my bobcat or Vulcan also mask this issue as the working volume of air is less, and lastly, some regulators are actually just bad, needing o rings or new sealing surfaces.



Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments. The tank pressure isn't depleted by much after only one mag, only down to 220 bar so pressure on that end is fine. The only thing I can think of is the set screw is turning, when the gun is fired, to make the reg pressure setting drop. I had problems with the reg pressure creeping up so FX recommend I clean it out and make sure the orings were ok. I did that and it was working fine until I raised the pressure to 150. I'm putting a huma reg in I'm fed up with this one.

FX needs to go back to the drawing board with this thing I think, We shouldn't be having this conversation! 
 
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I may be mistaken but I think this is the third attempt in the last three years by FX to create a regulator for the Impact and Crown that works as required without problems. It would have been so much simpler for them to just install Huma regulators at the factory level like Daystate and Brocock have done and the problem would be non-existent by now. And yet they stubbornly keep reworking a design that has not been problem free since the beginning. Maybe one day they will solve their regulator problems once and for all by just using Huma regulators...its funny that I have not heard even one complaint about the regulators in the Daystate of Brocock Air Rifles in the last year and a half since they started installing the Huma regs in their rifles.
 
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I may be mistaken but I think this is the third attempt in the last three years by FX to create a regulator for the Impact and Crown that works as required without problems. It would have been so much simpler for them to just install Huma regulators at the factory level like Daystate and Brocock have done and the problem would be non-existent by now. And yet they stubbornly keep reworking a design that has not been problem free since the beginning. Maybe one day they will solve their regulator problems once and for all by just using Huma regulators...its funny that I have not heard even one complaint about the regulators in the Daystate of Brocock Air Rifles in the last year and a half since they started installing the Huma regs in their rifles.
Click to expand...

I think you will need to compare sales numbers for a fair comparison in this one. I bet that the FX sales numbers far outnumber the Brocock rifles, if you take a percentage of 'faulty' regulators you will see a big difference in the actual amount of people and thus more people will apppear on the forums complaining.

The best remedy is to set the regulator and never touch it again if it seals! HuMa regulators work on the exact same principle as the FX regulators only they use a white soft material (I expect it to be POM or PTFE or something, not sure by the way) disk on top of the piston as a sealing surface for the regulator and the FX regulators use a soft material piston that will do the same job (don't know about the newest generation of FX regulators by the way). The inlet nozzles of the regulator will never be 100% concentrically identical straight out of the factory and thus if you change it's position it will have a different seating surface and this takes time to create. If it's seated but the surface is damaged it will leak. With the HuMa regulators you can turn the disk over or replace it and for the FX regulator you will need to change the piston. This problem will re-occur on every regulator that works this way, after a few adjustments and some arbitrary time the huma will start leaking too but you can extend this period by NOT touching it. I already foresee a sort of huma brand bashing when this will start happening in a few years time. Don't get me wrong, HuMa makes great products and is certainly great in giving regulator upgrade options for all types of brands but yet no regulator infallible yet ;)

I know the above is perpendicular to the option of being able to adjust it but the regulator tip will wear during use and certainly while adjusting it too much. There are ways to work around or even solve this problem but that'll require some skills or maybe a redesign and a decent root cause analysis. I have some ideas for this but first have to test them myself too see if my suspicions are true.
 
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