FX Crown, is this normal?

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Brad980

Brad980

Member
Jul 15, 2018
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Florida, Saint Lucia
Firstly this rifle is working very well, only a few days old if I may add. I'd seen videos of regulators recovering quickly after shots but mine takes a bit of time, just wanted to know if it's because it's new and that it's ok or if that lag is an issue. Can't seem to attach the video but i came set at 130 bars if I take a shot it goes to 120 and slowly heads back up I'll say about 10 seconds and more. I can attach a photo of it's Chrono results. 



1591929677_5026906995ee2eb4d4212f1.41871622.jpg

 
Shot string looks good. Manometers aren't always 100% accurate FYI. Last Guy I told him to put a piece of painters tape right on it. Yo!
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Might as well just take out the reg guage then and put in a end bolt in lmao. I doubt it's the reg guage. I have the same problem with my fx impact. My reg set to 140 bar. After a shot. It would go to 130 bar. If I wait a few mins then it goes back to 140 bar. This is with the wika gauges which is supposed to be way better than the fx stock gauges.
 
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10 seconds to settle out isn't indicative of a problem, and generally speaking a regulator that recovers fast will not have as stable a setpoint as those who recover relatively more slowly.

Also the 10 bar delta is not enough to influence the velocity in a meaningful way provided the hammer strike is adjusted to put it on the velocity knee (95 - 97% of peak velocity). It's when it continues to rise 20 - 30bar over a span of minutes or hours that it becomes a problem for a rifle used for hunting where the first shot must be 100% predictable.
 
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10 seconds to settle out isn't indicative of a problem, and generally speaking a regulator that recovers fast will not have as stable a setpoint as those who recover relatively more slowly.

Also the 10 bar delta is not enough to influence the velocity in a meaningful way provided the hammer strike is adjusted to put it on the velocity knee (95 - 97% of peak velocity). It's when it continues to rise 20 - 30bar over a span of minutes or hours that it becomes a problem for a rifle used for hunting where the first shot must be 100% predictable.
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Oddly I can argue the exact opposite, and state that a regulator that recovers fast will have a more stable set point than one that does slowly, and while neither of us have any supporting evidence and our claims are baseless, we both know that neither should matter provided the regulator keeps set point within nominal from shot to shot and you're tuned correctly to either eliminate most variation or on the knee of the slope. My es is actually .5% lately with my big fat fast recovering regulator. Very Odd, I suppose you're suggesting if I were to restrict my regulators flow, that my es would perhaps go down even further? Astonishing.



(yes larger breathing regulators will have more variation, this is due to mass air flow differential caused by pressure differential through the fill range, but this is easily manageable...and as stated I don't see its effects thanks to a proper tune and valve lift limiter/buffer, and even without a limiter buffer, its effects were within 1 es% any I had other anomalies causing larger es than the above...)




 
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Haha, the irony here is pretty sweet. You seem to have overlooked the "generally speaking" portion to counter with an anecdote, meanwhile fresh in my memory is you accusing everyone of having reading comprehension issues in the related topic on GTA just two days ago. We know you're a smart guy so I won't insult you with such an incendiary swipe, but come on. That is the least charitable interpretation that can be taken and it does not promote a healthy dialog.

And you wish to characterize my response as baseless with the full knowledge that we were just discussing this topic in detail here?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174561

That has no useful purpose other than to provoke and it demonstrates a willingness to be dishonest in the pursuit of it.

If my generalization is wrong, I trust you will explain to us how a regulator optimized for fast recovery has an advantage in terms of the consistency of its output pressure. Not how one regulator works great but how it is a useful design strategy such that maximizing recovery rate will improve consistency. For starters, it runs counter to your central argument regarding how it helps augment the plenum during the shot cycle. There will necessarily be a varying operating pressure that moves up and down as the reservoir rises and falls. It will not be visible on a plenum gauge because it is an instantaneous effect of the hammer knocking the valve open so it would be easy to be unaware of it, and the extent to which it affects the ES is of course dependent on a dozen other factors so I am by no means asserting that it will produce poor results, just simply that it is not advantageous to a stable operating pressure. We've all tuned conventional PCPs so we know it is quite possible to hold a tight ES over the span of a few hundred PSI.

Anyway I'm here to share information, but more than that I'm here to learn. If I'm wrong, I don't want to wallow in ignorance. I suspect motorhead and rsterne would love to be set straight on this topic as well.
 
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Haha, the irony here is pretty sweet. You seem to have overlooked the "generally speaking" portion to counter with an anecdote, meanwhile fresh in my memory is you accusing everyone of having reading comprehension issues in the related topic on GTA just two days ago. We know you're a smart guy so I won't insult you with such an incendiary swipe, but come on. That is the least charitable interpretation that can be taken and it does not promote a healthy dialog.

And you wish to characterize my response as baseless with the full knowledge that we were just discussing this topic in detail here?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174561

That has no useful purpose other than to provoke and it demonstrates a willingness to be dishonest in the pursuit of it.

If my generalization is wrong, I trust you will explain to us how a regulator optimized for fast recovery has an advantage in terms of the consistency of its output pressure. Not how one regulator works great but how it is a useful design strategy such that maximizing recovery rate will improve consistency. For starters, it runs counter to your central argument regarding how it helps augment the plenum during the shot cycle. There will necessarily be a varying operating pressure that moves up and down as the reservoir rises and falls. It will not be visible on a plenum gauge because it is an instantaneous effect of the hammer knocking the valve open so it would be easy to be unaware of it, and the extent to which it affects the ES is of course dependent on a dozen other factors so I am by no means asserting that it will produce poor results, just simply that it is not advantageous to a stable operating pressure. We've all tuned conventional PCPs so we know it is quite possible to hold a tight ES over the span of a few hundred PSI.

Anyway I'm here to share information, but more than that I'm here to learn. If I'm wrong, I don't want to wallow in ignorance. I suspect motorhead and rsterne would love to be set straight on this topic as well.
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First, let me show you, a string with a regulator that has very small air flow, compared to one with large air flow such as mine...if you pay enough attention, and observe both have a slight decline over their string...why is that you ask, that both succumb to such effects? Physics baby, yeah. I wont bother debating you as I have supporting evidence to show your claim is actually...baseless.



Yellow string = small ninja style reg

Blue string = my lane regulator with more airflow



1591973909_12670207505ee39815c12504.21955848.png

 
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To OP: Since a high percentage of guns come from the factory set to 130b and recover immediately, I'm going to say that is what it SHOULD be doing. All the guns I work on recover immediately. However, since the gun is very new, give it a bit more time and see if it will "break in" and start working as intended. If not, then you may want to call the vendor and ask about sending it back for repair/adjustment.

On the other hand, if you run it over a chrono after a tin or two of pellets and it doesn't make a noticeable difference, you may want to just let it be. Your ES should be somewhere around 20 or better. If you find that not the case, then a deeper inspection of the problem may be indicated.

One thing that we don't talk about much that I think is important, your confidence in the gun. If you are thinking maybe that something is wrong , you won't have the same confidence in the gun and its ability. That can make a difference in your shooting. So whether it hurts the the ES or not, if you don't feel confident, getting it checked would be my choice.

Hope that helps.



Crusher


 
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Brad980,

I can add nothing to the physics arguement, but I do own a Crown with the stock AMP regulator that does way weirder things than that, but always gives good accuracy at 100 yards. Only a couple of times, after a fill, the reg pressure seemed to bounce around a bit, or rebound slower. It settles in after about 10 quick shots(or a good whack on the bottom). One time I didn't notice it til halfway thru the fill. I didn't notice any difference in the gun's performance. Hope this helps
 
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@ghostranger169 that's unbelievable lol maybe it's just how they work 🤷🏽‍♂️, mine is fairly new still so maybe after that can of pellets is through it should be a lot better, hoping.

@triggertreat you're most probably right. This gun is only 1 week old and haven't been shot excessively, maybe had had 400 rounds thereabout I understand every one of them is different so I'm just gonna keep an eye out but I love it's performance this far, hope it only gets better and better. Thanks for all the help everyone.
 
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Brad980,

I can add nothing to the physics arguement, but I do own a Crown with the stock AMP regulator that does way weirder things than that, but always gives good accuracy at 100 yards. Only a couple of times, after a fill, the reg pressure seemed to bounce around a bit, or rebound slower. It settles in after about 10 quick shots(or a good whack on the bottom). One time I didn't notice it til halfway thru the fill. I didn't notice any difference in the gun's performance. Hope this helps
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(or a good whack on the bottom)... SHHH...You DON'T WANNA get reported for ABUSE. May end up in FOSTER CARE. I really like how you DISCIPLINE her when she's NAUGHTY. HOWEVER Giving that girl a good ol WHACKING often DOES work... Yo!
 
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The shot strings looks normal!!!

let me tell you how the gauge interacts with the reg pressure Only the guys never taking one apart to understand and how to troubleshoot the issue!!!!

the gauge has very sensitive parts to prevent damage FX install m2 set screw To control A slow flow to prevent damaging the gauge. 

to troubleshoot the gauge or reg, one has to look at the ES of the shot string in 10 seconds between shot if ES looks normal now shoot shoot a string 3-5 seconds between shots now the speed maybe 5-10fps slower and that is normal that shows you the reg in operating normal butt there is tuning to increase recovery time, now if the gauge is reacting slow unable to settle before another shot is taking or takes longer to stabilized that is normal in your shooting period, now wait 1 hours and see if the 1st shot is within the ES if so you have nothing to worry about.



Ernest


 
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