FWB 300 power increase

[wijib]

I've read about a few opinions and experiences with increasing the power on the FWB300 / 300S. Was wondering what the prevailing wisdom is on the topic. I am toying around with the idea of upping the power for longer range shooting / pest control. Maybe to 50 yards but I don't want to ruing the gun while doing so. I would like recommendation for tuners that have done this successfully. Not looking for stupendous power maybe up to 8-10 FPE?

 

[wildcj5]

Not worth it. Just about any other springer or pcp can do what you are wanting by detuning. 


There are so many 300 rifles out there if it was easy and reliable to do it you would see the Brits using them for Field Target.

And to be completely honest I have wanted to do it to one of mine for years. 

 

[thumper]

Won't happen with a drop in spring. And if it did, 8fpe in the wind at 50 yards is like throwing a wiffle ball anyway. 

IMO, 650-675fps with a 7.3gr pellet is about all that's feasible out of these. If that doesn't do it for you, then maybe it's not the right fit for your uses. Great guns, but they are purpose built and excel at what they are designed for. 

 

[shambozzie]

Try jsb 8.4. 50 yds is a cake walk. I shoot our to 70 yds (spinning targets) all the time. That's when the wind is right and the fun begins.

 

[Motorhead]

More spring energy just makes the shot cycle harsher. While there is an extra 50-75 fps there that some have gained, It is largely felt it not worth while being these rifle were made & designed to be docile 10m guns.

Under stand the piston bore and stroke are fixed, so they will always just compress the same volume of air. Increasing the speed in which the compression happens with more spring only speeds up how quickly pressure peaks, but adds ZERO compression created pressure that equates to more power.

 

[Guest]

I'd think you might ruin the gun and I'll trade you all sorts of more suitable AG for your beautiful 300...or maybe consider a scoped R9-R35-R50-etc?

 

[wijib]

Not worth it. Just about any other springer or pcp can do what you are wanting by detuning. 


There are so many 300 rifles out there if it was easy and reliable to do it you would see the Brits using them for Field Target.

And to be completely honest I have wanted to do it to one of mine for years.

That's what I'm beginning to learn. Thx for the input

Won't happen with a drop in spring. And if it did, 8fpe in the wind at 50 yards is like throwing a wiffle ball anyway. 

IMO, 650-675fps with a 7.3gr pellet is about all that's feasible out of these. If that doesn't do it for you, then maybe it's not the right fit for your uses. Great guns, but they are purpose built and excel at what they are designed for.

Yep. the prevailing wisdom says stay within the lines.

Try jsb 8.4. 50 yds is a cake walk. I shoot our to 70 yds (spinning targets) all the time. That's when the wind is right and the fun begins.

Thank you for your perspective

More spring energy just makes the shot cycle harsher. While there is an extra 50-75 fps there that some have gained, It is largely felt it not worth while being these rifle were made & designed to be docile 10m guns.

Under stand the piston bore and stroke are fixed, so they will always just compress the same volume of air. Increasing the speed in which the compression happens with more spring only speeds up how quickly pressure peaks, but adds ZERO compression created pressure that equates to more power.

I understand fluid dynamics and the implications of what you have stated. You can only squeeze so much air through an orifice, Many thanks for your sage advice.

I'd think you might ruin the gun and I'll trade you all sorts of more suitable AG for your beautiful 300...or maybe consider a scoped R9-R35-R50-etc?

I spent a lot of time tracking this gun down and I'm not in a hurry to trade it yet or ruin it. But thanks much for the offer.

 

[wijib]

I will probably need to get the gun tuned. We'll see (when it arrives and I get a chance to check it out). Thanks to all who have chimed in with their advice. So far, it has been pretty consistent.

 

[MDriskill]

I know that some have experimented with different shapes to the piston bumper face, etc., to reduce the "lost volume" in front of the piston ring, to get SMALL power boosts. That's pretty esoteric stuff for most of us though. I will join the bandwagon of those agreeing stouter springs are likely to disappoint.

The FWB springers are actually more powerful than the average target air rifle as is though - as thumper and motorhead noted, with a good spring and seals they will get well north of 600 fps with 7.3 pellets. That's not far off from some classic-era mid-power sporters like the Diana 27 or HW 50. With a quality pellet of reasonably aerodynamic shape (round-head like the JSB Exact or Air Arms Falcon is my personal fave), you can accomplish more than you might think at that power level. 

As an aside...one of the more ingenious aspects of the gun's design, is the cone-shaped breech seal. This allows the distance from the face of the piston to the back of the pellet to be reduced to almost zero. It's why the gun needs a piston bumper (the air trapped in a longer transfer port acts to brake the piston in a typical springer design), but also allows the powerplant to get max velocity with minimum spring strength and recoil.

 

[Yo]

There's the Maccari high power Arctic springs which he no longer sells that I completely bought out. He discontinued them because they are said to ruin the gun since the FWBs aren't meant to be bumped up like that.

I have successfully used old Crosman Copperhead 7.9gr pointed and very good out to 55 yards. I have successfully killed the most pests with one of mine with an old 12x Bushnell scope using said pellets compared to any other airgun I owned.

The Crosman pointed are now 7.4 grain. They are OK but the discontinued 7.9gr version that looks the same as the current 7.4gr are significantly more accurate at 55 yards.

Don't buy the Premier Super points 7.9gr they really suck.

The Crosman Premier 7.9gr in the 1250 count Brown boxes are worth trying in yours if you are looking to hunt at long distance and can't find old 7.9gr Crosman pointed and if the current 7.4gr Crosman pointed doesn't do it for yours at 50 yards. I am good and bought more than 700 tins of them among other caliber Crosman and Benjamin labeled pellets including 20 and 22 caliber Premiers 22 Wadcutters for my Crosman 600s many years ago maybe around 1600 assorted (Maybe closer to 2000 assorted) when I knew they were being discontinued (and NO they are not for sale). If you can find old 7.9gr Crosman pointed pellets soecifically Copperheads then buy them ALL. Maybe a small mom and pops that I had overlooked over the years may still have.

Use a light weight scope so you don't mess up the sliding sled mechanism. Either 3-9x or 6.5-20x Leupold EFR would be an excellent choice especially when upgraded at Leupolds Custom Shop for reticle and turret upgrade. 

Good luck.

 

[shambozzie]

I will probably need to get the gun tuned. We'll see (when it arrives and I get a chance to check it out). Thanks to all who have chimed in with their advice. So far, it has been pretty consistent.

FWB 300s mini. Jsb 8.4 @ 565 fps mv. 35 yd zero.

 

[Yo]

If you are pretty much fincially stable and want an ultimate 177 stupid accurate easy to shoot Springer to shoot at long distance that is more of a beast that will do the job with more smack down then buy a 177 Diana 54 or 56 and have Hector Medina (Connecticut Airguns) work his magic or buy a 12fpe FWB 800FT if FWBs float your boat.

If you want to be cheap a Crosman 1701P or 1720T with 0.08 P-Rod transfer port and RAI AR stock and a TKO and small Discovery HD or even UTG mini SWAT or $100 Centerpoint 3-12x44 SFP side focus could do what you want for a lot cheaper or a Crosman Challenger with Marauder Pistol transfer port that only requires 2000psi to fill.

 

[RedTide]

1996 produced FWB 300S, disassembled, cleaned, relubed, new piston buffer/breach seal and a Maccari single spring installed. FPS per a new a FX Chrony set at 0%. Haven't done a fps verification vs another chronograph..

Grain fps

H&N Finale Match Light 7.87 617

AA Diabolo Express 7.87 639

Crosman 7.8 (1,250 box) 7.90 603

JSB Exact Diabolo 8.44 601

JSB Exact Heavy 10.34 501

The only real difference between the 300 and 300S is that the 300S has 2 springs that are installed with the coils wound opposite one another to reduce twist. The single Maccari spring is harsher than the dual springs with a small gain in fps. Pellet on pellet accuracy at 10 yards with the H&Ns. AAs up to at least 45 yards, maybe more. These are 10 meter competition spring powered mechanisms that don't lend themselves to power tuning.

Disassembly, reassembly, cleaning, seal installation and lubing is not difficult. Keep an eye on the C clips, as they tend to launch during removal if not careful.. Lube sparingly.

 

[wijib]

I know that some have experimented with different shapes to the piston bumper face, etc., to reduce the "lost volume" in front of the piston ring, to get SMALL power boosts. That's pretty esoteric stuff for most of us though. I will join the bandwagon of those agreeing stouter springs are likely to disappoint.

The FWB springers are actually more powerful than the average target air rifle as is though - as thumper and motorhead noted, with a good spring and seals they will get well north of 600 fps with 7.3 pellets. That's not far off from some classic-era mid-power sporters like the Diana 27 or HW 50. With a quality pellet of reasonably aerodynamic shape (round-head like the JSB Exact or Air Arms Falcon is my personal fave), you can accomplish more than you might think at that power level. 

As an aside...one of the more ingenious aspects of the gun's design, is the cone-shaped breech seal. This allows the distance from the face of the piston to the back of the pellet to be reduced to almost zero. It's why the gun needs a piston bumper (the air trapped in a longer transfer port acts to brake the piston in a typical springer design), but also allows the powerplant to get max velocity with minimum spring strength and recoil.

Thanks for your feedback. Not sure I want to do any experimental stuff. Will probably keep it as is.

There's the Maccari high power Arctic springs which he no longer sells that I completely bought out. He discontinued them because they are said to ruin the gun since the FWBs aren't meant to be bumped up like that.

I have successfully used old Crosman Copperhead 7.9gr pointed and very good out to 55 yards. I have successfully killed the most pests with one of mine with an old 12x Bushnell scope using said pellets compared to any other airgun I owned.

The Crosman pointed are now 7.4 grain. They are OK but the discontinued 7.9gr version that looks the same as the current 7.4gr are significantly more accurate at 55 yards.

Don't buy the Premier Super points 7.9gr they really suck.

The Crosman Premier 7.9gr in the 1250 count Brown boxes are worth trying in yours if you are looking to hunt at long distance and can't find old 7.9gr Crosman pointed and if the current 7.4gr Crosman pointed doesn't do it for yours at 50 yards. I am good and bought more than 700 tins of them among other caliber Crosman and Benjamin labeled pellets including 20 and 22 caliber Premiers 22 Wadcutters for my Crosman 600s many years ago maybe around 1600 assorted (Maybe closer to 2000 assorted) when I knew they were being discontinued (and NO they are not for sale). If you can find old 7.9gr Crosman pointed pellets soecifically Copperheads then buy them ALL. Maybe a small mom and pops that I had overlooked over the years may still have.

Use a light weight scope so you don't mess up the sliding sled mechanism. Either 3-9x or 6.5-20x Leupold EFR would be an excellent choice especially when upgraded at Leupolds Custom Shop for reticle and turret upgrade. 

Good luck.




If you are pretty much fincially stable and want an ultimate 177 stupid accurate easy to shoot Springer to shoot at long distance that is more of a beast that will do the job with more smack down then buy a 177 Diana 54 or 56 and have Hector Medina (Connecticut Airguns) work his magic or buy a 12fpe FWB 800FT if FWBs float your boat.

If you want to be cheap a Crosman 1701P or 1720T with 0.08 P-Rod transfer port and RAI AR stock and a TKO and small Discovery HD or even UTG mini SWAT or $100 Centerpoint 3-12x44 SFP side focus could do what you want for a lot cheaper or a Crosman Challenger with Marauder Pistol transfer port that only requires 2000psi to fill.

Thanks for your perspective Yo. I have a brown box of the Crosman Premier 7.9 gr. I'll try them. I might be financially "stable" but I'm not going to get crazy.

I will probably need to get the gun tuned. We'll see (when it arrives and I get a chance to check it out). Thanks to all who have chimed in with their advice. So far, it has been pretty consistent.

FWB 300s mini. Jsb 8.4 @ 565 fps mv. 35 yd zero.

Great information! Thanks.

1996 produced FWB 300S, disassembled, cleaned, relubed, new piston buffer/breach seal and a Maccari single spring installed. FPS per a new a FX Chrony set at 0%. Haven't done a fps verification vs another chronograph..

Grain fps

H&N Finale Match Light 7.87 617

AA Diabolo Express 7.87 639

Crosman 7.8 (1,250 box) 7.90 603

JSB Exact Diabolo 8.44 601

JSB Exact Heavy 10.34 501

The only real difference between the 300 and 300S is that the 300S has 2 springs that are installed with the coils wound opposite one another to reduce twist. The single Maccari spring is harsher than the dual springs with a small gain in fps. Pellet on pellet accuracy at 10 yards with the H&Ns. AAs up to at least 45 yards, maybe more. These are 10 meter competition spring powered mechanisms that don't lend themselves to power tuning.

Disassembly, reassembly, cleaning, seal installation and lubing is not difficult. Keep an eye on the C clips, as they tend to launch during removal if not careful.. Lube sparingly.

Good information and feedback. Many thanks!



I appreciate the continued great responses!