ft/lbs (ugh) vs ft-lb muzzle energy
- Thread starter k9rfz
- Start date
I can appreciate a clever twist on words as much as anyone, but the supposed humor of changing my screen name to k-9rfz just went over my head. I honestly don't see the connection. I use K9RFZ as a screen name on many websites because it is my amateur radio call sign issued and recognized by the FCC. I communicate via radio with many friends and acquaintances around the world using that identifier. Sorry, I don't understand 2-manyAirGunz' style of humor. Hopefully, members on this forum haven't stooped to petty tactics like poking 'fun' at screen names to dismiss comments.
For an example of a clever twist on words, I recall the time my family was eating a spaghetti supper and my 6-year old daughter spontaneously did her best Arnold impersonation with thick accent to say, "Pasta la vista, baby." Maybe that's only funny as an inside joke to my family, but I doubt Arnold would be offended to learn a 6-year old girl had stolen one of his signature lines.
For an example of a clever twist on words, I recall the time my family was eating a spaghetti supper and my 6-year old daughter spontaneously did her best Arnold impersonation with thick accent to say, "Pasta la vista, baby." Maybe that's only funny as an inside joke to my family, but I doubt Arnold would be offended to learn a 6-year old girl had stolen one of his signature lines.
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Bro, I got a 10% discount from Pyramyd while sitting on my couch watching reruns of 'Mannix' no integral or differential equations involved........
Chuck, in Ohio.
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LOL. 5% is almost like a penalty, like they docked you 5%. Every time I go on there they offer me 10%
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I would like to know, if i reach back fill my hand then fling it. And choose to describe said action in terms of fpe and fps. Is there some way to indicate the e is excrument and the s not a mesure of time? Or would i be confined to describing the energy and time of. Something like fpeoe if so how would others know the second e was not an enigma but in fact excrument? Is any of this even possible ? And the bigger question if so why? No offence intended to any one or thing. Have a great day all!
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If ft/lbs ft-lb troubles you I heartily recommend Elmer Keith's pounds feet formula as a way to destroy all peace and tranquility.
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I’m fine with moving towards more accurate lingo. I’m also fine with the jokes, nervoustrig I think had the best. Shooting sports are absolutely loaded with misnomers, improper abbreviations, and otherwise wrong information. I heard ballisticians complaining about it, then I started to pay attention and it is all over.
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I highly doubt most people using the expression incorrectly are doing complicated ballistics formulas or writing dissertations or care about “rules” whatever that means. They’re just shooting airguns for fun or target practice. I don’t need to know complicated formulas to figure out what I want to know about my gun. I only need to know what the energy and velocity are. I use the terms FPS and FPE. And because I don’t even know the formulas for determining one based on the other, I use an online calculator to figure it out. Some day soon I will get a chronograph so I know the muzzle energy with different pellets because I know it can change. But at the end of the day, for most people this is just a hobby. If you want people to use what you consider proper terminology, start your own website.
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My 2 cents worth. This plus $5 will buy you a cup of "coffee" these days.
ft/lb (or, more accurately, lb/ft) is a TORQUE rating. A force (lb) acting through a distance (ft). Not sure what the distance is with a projectile. Seems it is just a calculation to measure an energy level. I'm not a physicist or engineer but maybe one of those can chime in and explain it more thoroughly, for those that need to know.
In this case, what difference does it actually make?
ft/lb (or, more accurately, lb/ft) is a TORQUE rating. A force (lb) acting through a distance (ft). Not sure what the distance is with a projectile. Seems it is just a calculation to measure an energy level. I'm not a physicist or engineer but maybe one of those can chime in and explain it more thoroughly, for those that need to know.
In this case, what difference does it actually make?
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I appreciate the handful of commenters and the few who sent personal messages supporting the use of proper units in our hobby. I respect groups like AAFTA and Pyramyd Air for recognizing the mistake in their documents and website and committing to make corrections. I'm still waiting to hear from Stephen Archer if he plans to make corrections on his Hard Air reviews page. To the people who posted negative and snarky comments, remember I didn't force you to read my post. If you're not in the mood for learnin', then don't tune your TV to PBS. Change the channel to America's Got Talent if you don't want to stimulate brain cells.. If air gun plinking is your depth of interest in the hobby, that's fine. Why attack someone for having a deeper interest trying to correct a common mistake in the hobby? The original intent of this thread has been hijacked by a few posters with a grudge against people who aspire to know more. In my opinion, the usefulness of this thread has long since been overwhelmed by abusive comments. I recommend the moderator close the thread. I won't be following further comments here.
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Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.
To bandg: Energy in English units is denoted as ft-lb. One ft-lb is the energy needed to lift one pound one foot. Two ft-lb energy could be either the energy needed to lift two pounds one foot, or one pound two feet. That's all there is to it. In the same system of units torque is denoted as lb-ft, to distinguish it from energy. One lb-ft is the torque created by applying a one pound load at the end of a one foot socket handle. So very easy to get the idea without having to know how to perform any complicated calculations.
The OP was pointing out the problem with denoting energy as ft/lb, which could mean ft per lb, as in how many feet of wire of certain gage could be produced from a pound of copper. But it was always clear from the context what was meant.
To bandg: Energy in English units is denoted as ft-lb. One ft-lb is the energy needed to lift one pound one foot. Two ft-lb energy could be either the energy needed to lift two pounds one foot, or one pound two feet. That's all there is to it. In the same system of units torque is denoted as lb-ft, to distinguish it from energy. One lb-ft is the torque created by applying a one pound load at the end of a one foot socket handle. So very easy to get the idea without having to know how to perform any complicated calculations.
The OP was pointing out the problem with denoting energy as ft/lb, which could mean ft per lb, as in how many feet of wire of certain gage could be produced from a pound of copper. But it was always clear from the context what was meant.
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Thanks for the reply. I assume your explanation is accurate, don't know for sure. I have no specific beef with how it is expressed and never did. Personally, I don't think there was any "problem" with denoting energy as ft/lb. Exactly as you note, "so very easy to get the idea" and I think most people had the idea without the discussion. JMO
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Every day is a school day, and I am always happy to learn.
ps, should it not read as ft-lbf?
ps, should it not read as ft-lbf?
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That's an approximation which we can use while subject to Earth's gravity. But...
"pound" is a general term used to refer to either a mass or a force."lift" implies mass and gravity, neither of which is part of the definition of FPE.
Energy is not ft-lbm, it's ft-lbf.
One FPE (ft-lbf) is the energy needed to apply a one pound force (lbf) over a distance of one foot. That does not depend on gravity.
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K9rfz,
Great job! That was some amazing work to point out an important relevant point. It is going to change the sport of air gunning forever! I think that you deserve a the Airgunner's Nobel Peace award. Air-gunners/Companies/Magazines are all going to remember the amazing contribution you gave this sport. Thank you!
Now, I'm sure there are other hobby forums out there doing the something wrong with other units somewhere. Like an Remote control airplane forum, or a Locomative train set forum, or a moral mushroom pickers forum out there...ect. I'm sure you can find something they are doing wrong. Get on it! They need you!
Great job! That was some amazing work to point out an important relevant point. It is going to change the sport of air gunning forever! I think that you deserve a the Airgunner's Nobel Peace award. Air-gunners/Companies/Magazines are all going to remember the amazing contribution you gave this sport. Thank you!
Now, I'm sure there are other hobby forums out there doing the something wrong with other units somewhere. Like an Remote control airplane forum, or a Locomative train set forum, or a moral mushroom pickers forum out there...ect. I'm sure you can find something they are doing wrong. Get on it! They need you!
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