N/A Ft break barrel rifle

[Hold_Over]

I have begun to get more curious about field target shooting than is financially responsible. Looks like something I could get into during the hunting off season. My current gear is all suited towards hunting, and I would be looking to put together a combo specifically for ft. As much as I like the tx200, particularly in walnut, the 9.2 lb weight with no scope I think is a bad idea for me. I have been looking at break barrels as of late. So far weight and quality of build the 2 that come to mind are the hw50, and diana 34. Anyone who shoots ft have any positive/negative ideas on either of these rifles for this purpose? I am aware some tuning etc may be needed. Any other suggestions that might be better suited to this task while still keeping weight down?
Thanks in advance

 

[Deerstalker]

HW95L rifle/scope = 139.3 oz which is 8 lbs. 11.2 oz. This is my HW95L .22 with a Hawke 4-16 x 44 mm compact IR, SF scope.

 

[Hold_Over]

HW95L rifle/scope = 139.3 oz which is 8 lbs. 11.2 oz. This is my HW95L .22 with a Hawke 4-16 x 44 mm compact IR, SF scope.

That's a good looking rifle. I will add it to the list

 

[EMrider]

I'm a hunter and a target shooter, so others here will have a lot more insight into FT setups that I will. That said, your question is interesting because the overwhelming tendency is to minimize weight in a hunting rig, while considering weight somewhat of a positive characteristic in an FT rig. I prefer my hw50s when hunting, because lugging around my hw97k gets tiring after a long day in the field (both guns are slinged). Whereas in FT, weight/mass tends to increase stability and aiming consistency in FT competition. That is why most spring gun FT competitors choose the TX, 97k or the Diana 54.

All that said, lots of FT competitors have had good success with the hw95/hw98 platform guns. It can be done, and as always, the skill of the shooter is the critical variable.

Good luck choosing
R

 

[Hold_Over]

I have some physical problems that make heavier rifles something I try and avoid, otherwise I might own a tx200 already. Given it a lot of thought and so far the weight has me concerned about it not being used more than the price tag.

 

[JP806TX]

I'm a WFTF sub 12 FPE target shooter only.

Since you already have your hunting rig, here's what I would do before buying another rig. Your hunting rig needs to be under 20 FPE for Hunter and open class and under 12 FPE for WFTF.

1. shoot your hunting rig in your chosen FT position. (I assumed it's going to be in the hunter division) and shoot at 25-30 yards for groups
2. Stragetically add weight to your rig to see if it improves your grouping. (front of the stock, middle, back etc). I used those Velcro ankle weights. (if it doesn't work, or you feel it's too heavy for your physical condition, remove or move the weight)
3. You saw the experiment with barrel sleeve on a HW 50, try that on you hunting rig.

The rationale for item 2 is because you are shooting a springer (gas ram?) you need to find the right "neutral/natural" balance point for your particular shooting position. Unfortunately, I agree with posting #4 the final product may or may not involve adding weight. Most precision target rifles are heavy and they are heavy for a reason. When you are in you and the rifle's "natural/neutral" position, heavier objects move less. Fraction of an inch movement may translate into a miss down range.

My personal experience with lighter and heavier rigs. I've shot my R9 and my R10 unmodified in FT competition (15 years ago? as I remember these lighter rifles were "twitchy") Now I shoot a TX200 in competition it's around 17 lbs with a scope (I added weights and a heavy scope). The Tx set up is probably close to twice as heavy as the R9 and it's more accurate. Is the TX twice as accurate as the R9? Probably not.

In trying to shoot our personal best and not be limited by equipment, we test, practice, modify, and try to make the best choices. Sometimes those choice involved a heavier target rifle.

My goal is to group 3/4" consistently at 30 yards (Troyer 40). I start looking at adjustments, changes, practice routines if I cannot meet that threshold.

Good luck and welcome to FT. (Psst don't sweat it, don't over think it, just have fun. life is too short!)

 

[Hold_Over]

Since you already have your hunting set up, here's what I would do before buying another set up.

1. shoot your hunting set up in your chosen FT position. (I assumed it's going to be in the hunter division) and shoot at 25-30 yards for group
2. Stragetically add weight to your rig to see if it improves your grouping. (front of the stock, middle, back etc). I used those Velcro ankle weights. (if it doesn't work, or you feel it's too heavy for your physical condition, remove or move the weight)
3. You saw the experiment with barrel sleeve on a HW 50, try that on you hunting rig.

The rationale for item 2 is because you are shooting a springer (gas ram?) you need to find the right "neutral/natural" balance point for your particular shooting position. Unfortunately, I agree with posting #4 the final product may or may not involve adding weight. Most precision target rifles are heavy and they are heavy for a reason. When you are in you and the rifle's "natural/neutral" position, heavier objects move less. Fraction of an inch movement may translate into a miss down range.

My personal experience with lighter and heavier rigs. I've shot my R9 and my R10 unmodified in FT competition (15 years ago?) Now I shoot a TX200 in competition it's around 18 lbs with a scope. The Tx set up is probably close to twice as heavy as the R9 and it's more accurate. Is the TX twice as accurate as the R9? Probably not.

In trying to shoot our personal best and not be limited by equipment, we test, practice, modify, and try to make the best choices. Sometimes those choice involved a heavier target rifle.

My goal is to group 3/4" consistently at 30 yards (Troyer 40). I start looking at adjustments, changes, practice routines if I cannot meet that threshold.

Good luck and welcome to FT. (Psst don't sweat it, don't over think it, just have fun. life is too short!)

I appreciate the response, lots of good info/suggestions. I was actually looking at the std. Sub 12lb division, and not the hunter class. There is an event this month within reasonable driving distance. Am gonna stop over after work, and check out what I can

 

[c_m_shooter]

I think the HW50 is a little light to get stable in a field target position. An HW97 at 12 ft lbs is what you want for that game. You think you want light, until you see how a heavier rifle settles in on target. The scope will depend on if you decide to go hunter or WFTF class.

 

[Hold_Over]

I think the HW50 is a little light to get stable in a field target position. An HW97 at 12 ft lbs is what you want for that game. You think you want light, until you see how a heavier rifle settles in on target. The scope will depend on if you decide to go hunter or WFTF class.

My neck, shoulders, and assorted nerve problems down to my hands think I want light.

 

[beerthief]

I would try shooting a comp with what you have now . Use what scope you have on it and is comfortable for you , Just use hold over /under .
DO not worry about the score . Do not be upset when you miss .

Stop over after work ? most matches are in the AM to early afternoon .

 

[beerthief]

I appreciate the response, lots of good info/suggestions. I was actually looking at the std. Sub 12lb division, and not the hunter class. There is an event this month within reasonable driving distance. Am gonna stop over after work, and check out what I can

Expect the guys at this meet to offer (some insistently) to use their gun and try it out , please do this , i didn't and regret it .

 

[Hold_Over]

I would try shooting a comp with what you have now . Use what scope you have on it and is comfortable for you , Just use hold over /under .
DO not worry about the score . Do not be upset when you miss .

Stop over after work ? most matches are in the AM to early afternoon .

I get out at 2pm that day. The match starts at 8, I expect they will still be cleaning up and comparing scores etc. Should a good time to ask questions

 

[Franklink]

I think the HW50 is a little light to get stable in a field target position. An HW97 at 12 ft lbs is what you want for that game. You think you want light, until you see how a heavier rifle settles in on target. The scope will depend on if you decide to go hunter or WFTF class.

Yep.

Big fan of the HW50s here. And have shot field target matches with mine, as recently as a couple months ago.

For field target you want rifle weight.

And at least as important as weight....is fpe output. A strung out, tuned to the max HW50s will just barely make 12fpe, and 9ish fpe is more where the platform is happy.

Most ft springer shooters will be around 12fpe, that's just a sweet spot for the two most commonly used FT springers, the HW97/77 and the TX200.

So a typical HW50s @ 9-10fpe will be undergunned. It doesn't sound like much, only 2fpe, but it's a disadvantage. And 9-10fpe versus 12fpe is 17-25% less energy.

Now, a HW50s is an enjoyable gun to shoot, and is a fun one to compete with in field target. If you're going to have fun, it's perfect. If you're the competitive type that likes to win and wants to win...well just understand that the HW50s is at a disadvantage to the typical TX200 and HW97 field target springers.

 

[Ievgen721]

I have 3. 2023 HW-50, 1990 D-34 t01, 2019 D-34 t06 Classic and had a 2012 D-34 Pro t05, sold it, didn’t like it - bad balance. I would leave HW-50 or D34 t06 Classic. D34 Classic t06 is the most powerful of the list and is not poorly made, It's a little heavy, but if you're tall, it's what you need. HW-50 is the highest quality, more suitable for a woman or a teenager. The D34 t01 is a light, not large rifle, about the same in power as the HW-50.

 

[Hold_Over]

I have 3. 2023 HW-50, 1990 D-34 t01, 2019 D-34 t06 Classic and had a 2012 D-34 Pro t05, sold it, didn’t like it - bad balance. I would leave HW-50 or D34 t06 Classic. D34 Classic t06 is the most powerful of the list and is not poorly made, It's a little heavy, but if you're tall, it's what you need. HW-50 is the highest quality, more suitable for a woman or a teenager.

Good info thank you. Am just under 6ft

 

[Ievgen721]

Good info thank you. Am just under 6ft

I am 6ft . For us D-34 t06 Classic (old model) will be the best. I have 2018 D-54 also, but it's not my choice.

 

[Mycapt65]

I'll chime in with probably redundant information. First, I never shot FT but little bit familiar with it. Second, I'm a big fan of lightweight, simple rifles. I'm one of the few people that never found that heavier rifles helped stabilize my offhand position. I wobble more with heavier rifles. I'm best with my 7 lb Hw50 and Hw30s. Perhaps I'm a 6'4" 250lb wimp or my techniques are poor.

I will say that my heavier weight to power rifles are the most accurate for me. I have a few Weihrauchs and my 177 Hw95 and 97 are my most accurate. My 14.5-15 fpe 95 is 9lbs and the 14-14.5 fpe 97 is 11lbs. The 95 will out shoot the 97 occasionally but its not as easy to shoot well consistently. The 97s extra weight helps deaden the recoil. Now I barely enjoy shooting the 97 on a bench, I can't shoot it well offhand and you couldn't pay me to carry it around the woods. I can shoot the 95 from a bench much better then the 11fpe Hw50 I carry around and shoot better off hand.

I understand that an 11lb rifle is physically difficult for you but if you can handle a 9lb rifle a 95 is a real nice platform at 12 fpe. In fact is shares the same piston size, spring and nearly the same stroke. That would give you the same 12fpe as everyone else and only about 1.5lbs more than a Hw50.

 

[AirNGasman]

With over a quarter-century of vast field target competition experience, including a short-lived springer attempt with a TX200 carbine, I'm now considering trying again; this time with a Diana 38, FWB 124 or .22 R-1 (all tuned), or a not-tuned Diana 48. Been shooting thousands of rounds through them trying to decide if it makes any FT sense, and which one(s) might.

Most of my shooting is at 50 yards, from Hunter position (stool and bipod) off my wooden deck. Most times I can consistently get .75 to 1.25" five-shot groups at 50 with any of those springers. However when the bipod feet are on earth the point of impact changes dramatically.

Obviously the physics and firing dynamics involved in the violent mechanical chain-of-events firing behavior of springers makes them hyper-sensitive to changes in hold, contact (with anything), shooting angle, and... how hard surface the bipod feet sit on! And the lighter or more powerful the springer, the more hyper-sensitive they are to EVERYTHING.

Bipod legs are also LEVERS, and levers are MULTIPLIERS; so those multipliers MULTIPLY EXPONENTIALLY springers' HYPERSENSITIVITY TO EVERYTHING! A tuning fork is a good analogy for the wood versus earth bipod footing. A tuning fork makes a vastly different tone when struck against wood than earth. And if springers aren't at least as sensitive as tuning forks, neither were my ex-wives!

So although I have good trajectory charts for my springers off the back porch, it might take me a lifetime to ascertain new charts from earthen bipod footing. Correction- TWO lifetimes!

The Diana 48 being about my weight limit, I'm considering detuning it from 19.5 foot pounds with a 12 FP Maccari spring. Hopefully those concessions to physics might shorten my trajectory chart adjustments to just one lifetime; and given my septuagenarian case, hopefully only 5-10 years of one lifetime!

But hey, having decided two psychotic ex-wives enough to last me the rest of my life, I figure this springer attempt at field target competition should fill my aggravation deficit quite effectively. And if a detuned Diana 48 works well enough to avoid investing in a 'proper' field target springer, I'll save as much money as another wife would cost.

 

[drjjpdc78]

Is FT similar to NRA Silhouette? I got a new Weihrauch HW 95L this and it's a fine shooter.

 

[Hold_Over]

Looks like I missed a bunch of replies...getting caught up on this thread tonight. My search is still on for a rifle for ft. I have seen a few diana 34s on ebay recently, older stuff with a to5 trigger. A little digging on comparison between that and the to6 trigger, it sounds like I might like the 5 better.

Is FT similar to NRA Silhouette? I got a new Weihrauch HW 95L this and it's a fine shooter.

There are others far more qualified to answer this question. Ultimately my understanding is a course type structure. Each of the lanes presents a different range and position the shot must be taken from. Ranges are estimated by the shooter, but targets are not more than 55yards. I gather the original concept was to simulate a hunting type format. There is a whole section on the forum here for ft matches, techniques, equipment etc.