It would likely be a Semiauto (or fullauto) such as my HubenK1 or LCS SK19 for shooting a Racoon past 70 yards or a Benjamin Bulldog (bigger hole eh-?).
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Foot pounds of energy discussion
- Thread starter WN0912
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It would likely be a Semiauto (or fullauto) such as my HubenK1 or LCS SK19 for shooting a Racoon past 70 yards or a Benjamin Bulldog (bigger hole eh-?).
Odoyle, I just checked Trenier, they are out of stock on all JSB pellets I looked at, several 22 cal and 25 cal JSB options. All out of stock.
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I revisited the can shot this morning and realized I was in the red, which explains the lack of performance from the previous can shot. With a full charge through and through at 50 meters
As for fpe, 15 fpe will not penetrate a squirrel's winter coat (10-meter shot) but will go entirely through a summer squirrel.
As for fpe, 15 fpe will not penetrate a squirrel's winter coat (10-meter shot) but will go entirely through a summer squirrel.
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My first PCP was a Benjamin Marauder Pistol, a Prod. After figuring out it likes H&N FTT, copper plated, best and Crosman domed pretty well I started shooting at squirrels which infect my yard. I missed a couple because my UTG bug buster was changing zero by an inch at 25 yards while the gun was hanging on a peg. A Hawke 2-7 fixed that and squirrels started getting hit. But with only about 13 fpe, stock tune, if I didn't hit them in the brain, some of them ran off. I did not like that so I started turning up the power. I also tested different pellets for penetration. I discovered the pellets my Prod likes also give me pretty good penetration. Better than metal mags (which are heavier) because they do not expand. I tuned the Prod up to 700-750 fps, 17-18 fpe. Squirrels now drop with one shot and do not run. Even when I do not hit the brain. Last 6 have been clean one shot kills with essentially no movement after impact (other than falling). Most have been neck shots but a couple have been body shots. Hit through the chest, I get both entrance and exit holes. Hit diagonally, the pellet stops under the hide on the off side and the squirrel falls right there.
But a squirrel is a 1-1.5 lb animal and a coon can weight 15 lbs or more. I am hitting squirrels with 14-15 fpe at impact. But if we scale that to a 15 lb animal we need more than a 25 caliber can generate, we need a big bore. But if we go for brain shots, then a 25 should work fine - but brains are not large so 80 yard shots take really good shooter and equipment.
I also disagree that expansion is a good thing if we are stretching a PCP. A 22 caliber hole is enough to drop a squirrel right were it's hit. I suspect a 25 caliber hole will also drop a raccoon but only if it's deep enough. I tested the penetration of a couple slugs today and I was impressed by the expansion to about 3/8 inch of the knockout. But it's penetration was like a 22 pellet from my Prod. Less than the heavier pellets from the Prod. Not enough for bigger animals. We do not need bigger diameter shallower holes. A 3/8 hole would drop a squirrel with authority and the knockout has enough penetration for squirrels but a low powered 22 drops squirrels well so what's the point of the bigger hole?
But a squirrel is a 1-1.5 lb animal and a coon can weight 15 lbs or more. I am hitting squirrels with 14-15 fpe at impact. But if we scale that to a 15 lb animal we need more than a 25 caliber can generate, we need a big bore. But if we go for brain shots, then a 25 should work fine - but brains are not large so 80 yard shots take really good shooter and equipment.
I also disagree that expansion is a good thing if we are stretching a PCP. A 22 caliber hole is enough to drop a squirrel right were it's hit. I suspect a 25 caliber hole will also drop a raccoon but only if it's deep enough. I tested the penetration of a couple slugs today and I was impressed by the expansion to about 3/8 inch of the knockout. But it's penetration was like a 22 pellet from my Prod. Less than the heavier pellets from the Prod. Not enough for bigger animals. We do not need bigger diameter shallower holes. A 3/8 hole would drop a squirrel with authority and the knockout has enough penetration for squirrels but a low powered 22 drops squirrels well so what's the point of the bigger hole?
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My response above may be unintentionally misleading. I am not trying to argue that a 25 caliber pcp is not enough gun to kill a coon. Even at 80 yards. I am just saying I don't think you have the penetration capability to anchor the animal reliably unless you hit the brain. A hit to the vitals should kill it but not quickly. You will not shoot through so you will have an entrance and no exit hole. Your best bet is a 34 grain domed pellet since it will give you the most penetration. That gave me a little over 4.5 inches penetration in wet paper which correlates roughly with muscle tissue. The two slugs I tested went 2 and 2.6 inches in the same paper. That is enough for a squirrel but not in my opinion enough for a raccoon.
At 80 yards my 50 fpe tune of my Avenger would give you a little over 33 fpe on the animal. At 25 yards where I tested it still has 45 ft lbs. So penetration will be less but I think you still can do enough damage for a clean kill. Just not a quick kill with a body shot. I would expect it to run off if you do not hit the brain.
At 80 yards my 50 fpe tune of my Avenger would give you a little over 33 fpe on the animal. At 25 yards where I tested it still has 45 ft lbs. So penetration will be less but I think you still can do enough damage for a clean kill. Just not a quick kill with a body shot. I would expect it to run off if you do not hit the brain.
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I agree that coons at 80 yards from a 25 Mrod is not an ethical shot for most shooters. .22 Long Rifle high velocity is a minimum. I have a .25 Mrod and wouldn't try it past 40 yards as you need the velocity to punch into the skull and ensure a hit exactly where you want it. If your hunting coons I would go with a power tune and JSB heavies, H&N Barracudas or Slugs.
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Always bring enough gun. Better too much than too little. Everyone tries their best to get exact shot placement, but murphy is always present. Use enough FPE to dispatch the animal with a shot that doesn't go exactly where you planned.
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Always have a variety of tools, medium to wild. My preferred is wild because you never know what's going to pop up on the trail or what distance. A well worked over and tune 25 cal Mrod is good on Medium game at unreal distances. 44 grain slug @980 fps with a bc of .114; run the numbers.
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A .22 pellet with 20 fpe has 8 fpe left at 80 yards.
This is because pellets have very low ballistic coeficients (BC). They aren't very aerodynamic.
This is because pellets have very low ballistic coeficients (BC). They aren't very aerodynamic.
I like that post too but I would add that putting a shot into the brain doesn't guarantee that outcome. I shot a 8 lb racoon at less than 10 yards between the eyes with my 32 fpe P35-22 using a 21 grain H&N Baracuda Match pellet. It laid down immediately and my dog grabbed it and shook it but when she put it down it's heart was still beating. I put another in it's neck and it bled some but only for a few seconds. It was dead from the brain shot but the brain stem was evidently not damaged enough to stop the heart. The same shot with my 40+fpe 25s would probably have the "cerebellar coning" effect. I think even my >40 fpe 25s are light for racoons. I've seen them hit with a 22lr and still have lots of fight left in them.
Since my 2021 post on this thread I've shot a lot of squirrels with my 32 fpe 25 and later 22 as well as my 19 fpe 177. I think there is a significant difference in the squirrel reaction to a less than 20 fpe impact versus a 30+ fpe impact. I use domed pellets. Only 2 of 27 squirrels taken with the 30+ guns have run at all and those were both hit in the center of the chest with the pellet stopping under the hide behind a rear leg. I was using my P35-25 on those two. They only ran a few feet. The 25 others just dropped at impact. Almost all the hits with the under 20 fpe guns killed very quickly. All the shots that were well placed killed quickly. But even with good chest hits with the under 20 guns the squirrel would often take a step or two. Some of the hits with the >30 guns were not real well placed but the squirrel still dropped immediately. I like the apparent margin I get from the more powerful guns.
Since my 2021 post on this thread I've shot a lot of squirrels with my 32 fpe 25 and later 22 as well as my 19 fpe 177. I think there is a significant difference in the squirrel reaction to a less than 20 fpe impact versus a 30+ fpe impact. I use domed pellets. Only 2 of 27 squirrels taken with the 30+ guns have run at all and those were both hit in the center of the chest with the pellet stopping under the hide behind a rear leg. I was using my P35-25 on those two. They only ran a few feet. The 25 others just dropped at impact. Almost all the hits with the under 20 fpe guns killed very quickly. All the shots that were well placed killed quickly. But even with good chest hits with the under 20 guns the squirrel would often take a step or two. Some of the hits with the >30 guns were not real well placed but the squirrel still dropped immediately. I like the apparent margin I get from the more powerful guns.
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.0223 is a low BC for a .22 pellet. For example, the JSB 15.9 grain .22 pellet has a BC of .031. What reference drag law are you using and what pellet?
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This is Hawke's old app which hasn't been updated for some years now. This is one of the presets called "22 round-nose @ 20 ft.lb.", and it has the BC preset at that number with the GA curve/model.
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I have hunted with every type of weapon, in many parts of the country, and handguns, muzzleloaders and airguns are my favorites. They all have the same things in common. The most important thing is accuracy to hit the vital areas. The second most important thing is peneration to reach and destroy the vitals. This can be from velocity or momentum and I feel more is always better than not enough. The third thing for stopping anything is the bigger the hole the better but not to the point of destroying the meat so it can not be eaten. You could use a .22 to kill a raccoon but a .25 will be better and a .30 will be better yet.
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