Tuning Fliers-at then end of my wits

Impact MkII, 700 mm, PP, .22. Shooting H&N 23 gr slugs, which were previously doing very well: 1/2" 5-shot groups at 70 yd, often better. For about a month I've been getting random fliers, with three shots touching and two an inch or more away, not always in the same spot.

Scope? Swapped it out, sent it back to mfg to check. Backup scope-still fliers.

Rings/mounts? all tight, done with torque wrench.

Bore leading? Don't have a bore scope, can't see much lead at either end, thorough cleaning didn't help.

Crown? Looks perfect.

Irregular velocity? Tried various tunes from 880 to 945 fps, usually with extreme spreads 14 or less, often below 10. Adjusted regulator as needed, lower for slow tunes and higher for fast ones, from 95 to 120 bar. Still fliers.

Ammo? I sort by weight, and over 95% of these slugs are either 23.2 or 23.4 gr. Don't have a good way to measure them otherwise, and anyway they were working before, and it's the same lot.

Tried pellets again: JSB 18.13, FX 18.1, both of which were good in the past, at 880 fps: problem still there.

Liner is indexed, tried changing that, no better.

Clipping? can see no lead streaks on either end of moderator, none on the end of the shroud. Tried the issued FX shroud. Louder but still fliers, no sign of clipping.

Too fast? Too slow? Tried the above velocity ranges with no improvement.

Liner is a Superior standard, which was working well before.

C1 is tight.

Hold sensitive? Wasn't before, but I tried loose and tighter holds without improvement. Shooting from a good steady bench with a good rear bag and a bipod.

Breech O-ring? Changed it . No better.

Probe? Tight, and adjusted to fit the port in the barrel.

Rail is firmly tightened but not overly so.

Barrel grub screw firmly but not excessively tight. Jam nut holding liner to barrel assembly tight but not too much. Barrel screwed into shroud firmly but not too hard.

What am I missing?
 
Mike,

I am truly sorry that your gun is giving you such problems.

Makes me feel better when my China guns do similar stuff.



🔶 And your list of tried fixes is awesome. 😊

This needs to be made a sticky! THANK YOU! Saved to my "Important Gun Instructions" files! 👍🏼



Hope someone has an idea whaty else to try to get your gun back into line.

Matthias
 
Mike, you didn't describe how you cleaned the barrel (liner I guess here). Based on your information, if you didn't scrub the bore good with brush and solvent, that would be my next step, perhaps with a JB polishing also. These liner/sleeve systems, based on my admitted limited experience with them, leave me uncomfortable in searching for answers to issues like this one.
 
Fliers are interesting. If a gun groups, it’s considered accurate. Throw in fliers and we start down possibly the wrong path. A dirty fouled gun generally won’t shoot nice groups, they start to open up. The same thing with a gun that is on the verge of a mechanical problem. If your gun is printing nice groups except for the obvious flier, like JimNM said, we need to look at what is touching the gun first. That’s you and your rests. I would first switch out the bipod for a nice front bag. Not sure what, or how long your airgun background is but it takes a long time for a pellet to exit the gun compared to a bullet leaving a firearm. A ton of mystery fliers are caused by that slight twitch either by the shooter or the gun before the projectile leaves the barrel in a slow firing airgun. On our good days or when a gun is new to us and we haven’t developed the curse of anticipating the shot, we have less fliers. You have by now put a lot of lead down range. Change how you rest the gun or even the trigger setting to make the gun new to you again and see if it’s just you causing fliers. It’s sounds like you already covered everything mechanical.
 
I cleaned with Hoppe's and a .22 rifle brush- a very tight fit, so I passed my coated Dewey rod down from the muzzle, dipped the brush in solvent, attached to rod, and pulled through. Repeated five times, followed by dry patches which came out the cleanest I've seen them. Then applied a dab of Shooter's Choice lead remover to the outside of the liner, waited 10 minutes, wiped it off and saw no effect on the steel, so applied to bore for 15 min then dry-patched. Not much came out. I polished with 3M papers a la Ernest before I ever used this liner, but ran a blue paper through a few times just in case, then dry patched again. JB is the next step, I guess.
 
Try to eliminate all variables. I'll be getting a Pellet Gage R system once I see what head size does best in certain ones. I'm more particular about my springers but head size matters in everything. You can weigh first and buy a TR Robb sizer to size ones that might need to go down 0.001"

Would work for slugs also but they're usually dead on, especially any swaged ones.

I'm awaiting these in .177 & .22

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It took 25 years for me to finally set my ego aside when issues popped up with my long range shooting and finally look at myself first. The last 15 years have been way better. It’s way cheaper and less time consuming than constantly blaming the gun, load or ammo. Sometimes it is the gun but I’ve developed ways to test me just like we test equipment. Sometimes when we get frustrated, we only get worse because we lost our confidence in the gun. The fact that you still have a flier problem with pellets raises an eyebrow.
 
It took 25 years for me to finally set my ego aside when issues popped up with my long range shooting and finally look at myself first. The last 15 years have been way better. It’s way cheaper and less time consuming than constantly blaming the gun, load or ammo. Sometimes it is the gun but I’ve developed ways to test me just like we test equipment. Sometimes when we get frustrated, we only get worse because we lost our confidence in the gun. The fact that you still have a flier problem with pellets raises an eyebrow.

I'm serious about this. Weaponology showed with a neural scan a pro shooters groups shrunk in half when he was in the relaxed zone. I don't remember if it was Alpha or Beta brain waves but basically when you clear your mind, your dead on. It's not just breathing and form. You have to truly learn to relax. Probably really hard in a competition but just something to think about. I personally only want to shoot when I'm able to relax and it helps me do it further.
 
It took 25 years for me to finally set my ego aside when issues popped up with my long range shooting and finally look at myself first. The last 15 years have been way better. It’s way cheaper and less time consuming than constantly blaming the gun, load or ammo. Sometimes it is the gun but I’ve developed ways to test me just like we test equipment. Sometimes when we get frustrated, we only get worse because we lost our confidence in the gun. The fact that you still have a flier problem with pellets raises an eyebrow.

I'm serious about this. Weaponology showed with a neural scan a pro shooters groups shrunk in half when he was in the relaxed zone. I don't remember if it was Alpha or Beta brain waves but basically when you clear your mind, your dead on. It's not just breathing and form. You have to truly learn to relax. Probably really hard in a competition but just something to think about. I personally only want to shoot when I'm able to relax and it helps me do it further.

Yep, and that’s why when your pressed for time at the range, things rarely go well.
 
Just giving you stuff to think about but I had a 6 month flier problem with a bullpup. Sometimes bad, sometimes not bad. Never shot the gun a ton so I didn’t really get hell bent on fixing the issue. When I finally started shooting the gun testing .177 Hades, I had to address the flier problem. Took off the little wooden cheek piece and the fliers are all gone. It was me and my cheek pressure.
 
Weather conditions have always been the biggest problem! It’s sometimes easier to blame equipment when the weather conditions is the problem. My suggestion would be to wait for a better day speaking of the weather conditions. Patients and documentation of all conditions when you shoot will show a pattern as long as it’s convenient for you to shoot at better and worse times. Remember, at least where I live lack of foliage and air density the smallest breeze has a huge effect! Good luck to all