First Time Sorting Pellets By Weight

[NoLimits]

Hello @all, hello okieairgunner.

I'm sorry I'm not on this forum often.
I keep having questions about what I use to check the symmetry of the pellets.
A few years ago I developed a device to check the concentricity of the Hollo era. But only for Cal.177 pellets. It's fine for flat head match pellets as well. However, this test device is not so suitable for 25 meter bench rest shooters. The round head pellets often do not have the high quality of the premium flat head pellets.

Die Anwendung

Die Exzentrität des zu prüfenden Diabolos wird über eine Messuhr auf eine Genauigkeit von bis zu 0,01 mm abgelesen. Über einen Fühlhebel kann der Abstastbereich am Kelch des Diabolos universell eingestellt werden. Eine reproduzierbare Rotationsachse wird durch mehrere Kugellager garantiert. Das...

www.lottessporttechnik.de

In Europe, Cal.177 pellets are mainly used for shooting.

Some time ago I changed the pellet tester and made an additional test bolt for Cal.22. I have already done several tests with Cal.177 on 25m benchrest. I'm confident that the Cal.22 tests will also go well.
Fortunately, every pellet manufacturer always makes the same mistakes. Depending on the batch, sometimes more sometimes less.

As an example H&N Baracuda Cal.22

For example, look at the wobbling of the front cone.

My Equipment

Please excuse the deviation from the topic.
Here's another picture on the subject.

NoLimits

 

[Ezana4CE]

@NoLimits Now that’s an interesting way to test pellets for shape consistency, but it looks time consuming.

 

[rangur1]

WOW i have sorted a lot of tins and never had a spread like that .

Not only have I continuously have a spread like that. It’s also 2 or more different head sizes.

 

[ThomasT]

Hello @all, hello okieairgunner.

I'm sorry I'm not on this forum often.
I keep having questions about what I use to check the symmetry of the pellets.
A few years ago I developed a device to check the concentricity of the Hollo era. But only for Cal.177 pellets. It's fine for flat head match pellets as well. However, this test device is not so suitable for 25 meter bench rest shooters. The round head pellets often do not have the high quality of the premium flat head pellets.

Die Anwendung

Die Exzentrität des zu prüfenden Diabolos wird über eine Messuhr auf eine Genauigkeit von bis zu 0,01 mm abgelesen. Über einen Fühlhebel kann der Abstastbereich am Kelch des Diabolos universell eingestellt werden. Eine reproduzierbare Rotationsachse wird durch mehrere Kugellager garantiert. Das...

www.lottessporttechnik.de

In Europe, Cal.177 pellets are mainly used for shooting.

Some time ago I changed the pellet tester and made an additional test bolt for Cal.22. I have already done several tests with Cal.177 on 25m benchrest. I'm confident that the Cal.22 tests will also go well.
Fortunately, every pellet manufacturer always makes the same mistakes. Depending on the batch, sometimes more sometimes less.

As an example H&N Baracuda Cal.22
View attachment 311349

For example, look at the wobbling of the front cone.
View attachment 311350

My Equipment
View attachment 311354

Please excuse the deviation from the topic.
Here's another picture on the subject.
View attachment 311356

NoLimits

Hello @NoLimits

Super information, thank you for sharing.

ThomasT

 

[18.13]

I read a article years ago where JSB stated they try to keep their batches within 2.5% in weight

 

[dgeesaman]

Like I said before - Down the rabbit hole! I know I'm having fun - hope everyone else is as well!

Maybe(?)

Weighing pellets on my Sartorius is not ergonomically ideal, and I'm not yet ready to reconfigure my bench to optimize for it. So it leaves me sore.

Rolling pellets is mildly fun and it's interesting to see how some that have dings don't roll smoothly. I may add that as a sorting criteria in addition to the roll radius. The engineer in me and my memory of Harry (Yrrah) gives me satisfaction that this test really does matter on a fundamental level.

Head sorting is annoying. I wonder if I'm doing more damage than sorting. I hate when a pellet feeds through but doesn't easily come back out. Might be quicker and more accurate to drop each pellet head into a tapered hole and sort based on the distance to the pellet's nose or skirt. I already did a search for cheap used optical comparators but those are out of reach. A good 3 point snap gauge (v-block + dial indicator) might be the ticket.

My plan is to take my RAW .30 on the clubs indoor range sometime and shoot all of the pellets as equally as possible and review the results. (Easier said than done). Maybe I can clamp it and simply change targets to remove the rest as a variable. Anyway then I can look across and see which sort variables had the most effect. I can also shoot the culls/outliers and see which of them would have been most inaccurate, because sorting and culling are two different activities.

There is a last element that airgunners don't often talk about - the individual barrel. All things being equal, some barrels just outperform others whether using inferior or excellent ammo. I have a friend with a $4500 17HMR Anschutz. Not only is it a gem to look at and shoot, it shoots every ammo we feed it better than any other 17HMR rifle that either of us own or owned. And between us we've tested maybe a dozen 17HMRs in the last few years. I don't know what makes that Annie's barrel better, but it's always better than the rifle shooting next to it. So if I find a hummer airgun barrel maybe it won't be pellet fussy or it won't throw fliers. Maybe I need to be like Tony Boyer and just buy more barrels and test and sort my barrels.

 

[MikeAllen]

I read a article years ago where JSB stated they try to keep their batches within 2.5% in weight

My sort of about 9 tins of .25 cal. JSB King Heavy pellets had an overall spread of about 4% - BUT - most of them (95-99%) fell into the 1.75% difference in weight.

 

[DellaDog]

Maybe I need to be like Tony Boyer and just buy more barrels and test and sort my barrels.

Agree completely that most accuracy comes down to the barrel lottery. If it were as easy to swap barells on a Daystate Red Wolf as it is on a powder burner, I’d try a couple and pick the best.

(Though pristine pellets would help as well.)

 

[dgeesaman]

Agree completely that most accuracy comes down to the barrel lottery. If it were as easy to swap barells on a Daystate Red Wolf as it is on a powder burner, I’d try a couple and pick the best.

(Though pristine pellets would help as well.)

That makes me chuckle because few things are quite as testy as removing a factory installed centerfire barrel. Of course once the bond's been broken and torqued back to a reasonable spec, it is indeed easy.

I have an FX Crown arriving tomorrow. Having the ability to quickly test and compare barrel (liners) is a feature I'm cautiously optimistic about. Maybe I'll find one that's supremely accurate. But it might be tricky if it takes extensive pellet testing and tuning just to determine how good a given barrel liner can perform. Hopefully its like centerfire and rimfire barrels - great barrels range from good to great accuracy depending on the ammo and bad barrels range from bad to good accuracy, so if you just test a variety or ladder of ammo you can quickly judge the barrel's potential.

Back to head sizing - I just ordered a used 0-1" snap gauge. The pelletgage, while simple and effective, works in 0.01mm / .0004" increments. The snap gauge is accurate to .0001" and hopefully the spring force is light enough I can measure both heads and skirts safely. I have a digital micrometer good to twice that accuracy but the mechanical leverage of that rotating anvil is too much for soft lead. No idea if any of this extra data will aid accuracy, but I'm a bit of a measuring tool nerd and this snap gauge scratches an itch.

 

[OldSpook]

WOW i have sorted a lot of tins and never had a spread like that .

33.5 to 34.5 at 0.05? That looks like a bell curve to me. You've probably never measured them that tight? I don' t believe I've ever owned a scale that could do that, even a reloading scale that could measure 5/100 of a grain reliably... but then I've never owned a digital reloading scale.

 

[spinj]

I don’t mean to add to the disappointment of some, but have you also counted the pellets to see if they actually match the stated quantity on their repective tins?

 

[Lightyear68]

I just want to say thanks to the thread contributors, as I've learned a lot about sorting. This is the AGA video that got me thinking about the process.

 

[Lightyear68]

Yep, mine does x.xx grains.

View attachment 310903

Mike, are you happy with the accuracy of this model scale? The reviews are all over the place because everybody has a different level of need for their applications. Does it work consistently for pellet weighing? The AGA video shows the same scale. Do you weigh in grains or grams to sort?

 

[MikeAllen]

Mike, are you happy with the accuracy of this model scale? The reviews are all over the place because everybody has a different level of need for their applications. Does it work consistently for pellet weighing? The AGA video shows the same scale. Do you weigh in grains or grams to sort?

Yes, I am happy with this scale - if it's good enough for AOA it's good enough for me! I weigh in grains and this scale will go to two decimal places so within one one-hundredth of a grain and it seems to be very consistent. I don't think an expensive scientific scale is necessary for pellets. If you read the opening post you'll see my method of weighing and sorting which gives me batches that are within .05 grains in weight.

 

[jps2486]

I have competed in 25M BR shooting and have played around with pellet sorting. IMO, washing and lubing did not produce any better results. Measuring and sorting head size was more time consuming than I wanted to do, but I could see some benefit to this. Sorting and segregating by weight produced the best results for me. Attached is a photo of some weighed vs unweighed shot at 25 yd from my TM1000. The following photo shows what kind of weight distribution you can get from pellets from the tin. While this is extreme for this caliber (25 I think), you could get as much as at least 0.5 grain difference in .177 cal. I've seen more. So, I shoot my competition targets with pellets of the same, or +/- 0.1 gr.

 

[MikeAllen]

Good information - as I've said in a previous post - I am probably the biggest variable!

 

[Richieg]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'll keep sorting so I have a larger population and also do a little practical testing (shooting) and I'll update as I go along. It's interesting that FX is made by JSB - and FX claims that they require JSB to use only certain dies (or maybe only one die) in order to maintain consistency.

3 tins of FX 25.39. Head size seemed to be a consistent 5.55.

Sorted a couple tins of JSB 25.39 and these 2 tins had a consistent head size of 5.57.

The majority of the pellets fell between 25.2-25.5. From ALL the .22 RDM I have sorted the head sizes in JSB run from 5.52-5.58.The FX branded seem to be either 5.55 or 5.56 head size. I have never found a tin of JSB with 5.52 head size.

 

[MikeAllen]

Thanks for your information. I’ve sorted about 8-9 tins of JSB .25 33.95 by weight and now beginning to sort by head size. Plan on testing/shooting before sorting all by head size. Then I’ll do some FX the same way. Then I’ll test weight/head size sorts by lubricated vs non- lubed. Then I’ll try to figure out just how CRAZY I am for doing all of this!!! It’s sort of like tuning an Impact M3 - it could go on forever!!!

 

[Bill_D]

I think you got the Pellet Bug - its amazing how far down a rabbit hole an airgun can take ya, don't get lost you might pop up somewhere in Asia hahahaha
Looking forward to your results.

 

[MikeAllen]

Definitely got the bug a few years ago. Went from inexpensive big box store break barrel to Marauder to Avenger to Akela to Impact M3! Now weighing and measuring pellets! Enjoying every step of the way!