First Time Buyer Question

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VonLuck

Member
May 4, 2022
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Michigan, United States
Hey guys, you probably get a ton of these and are sick of seeing them. But if anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. 

I'm what would probably be considered a fanatical, imprudently over-stocked, obsessed firearms owner. To say the least, haha. And I enjoy plinking with my .22. 

But my kids are getting older, and I recently bought my oldest his first BB gun - a Red Ryder, of course ;) I sanded down the furniture and applied my own engraving and finish. 

Well, I enjoyed plinking with that BB gun so much that I bought my own "adult" Red Ryder to shoot with him. (The kids don't love the crack of the .22 next to them. I get it). 

But... the Red Ryder, with it's ball ammo, isn't very accurate. I think I'd like to step up. Maybe eventually to a big PCP setup, but I'd like to start slow. Something cheap, but accurate and powerful. 



MY GOALS:

$250 or less.

.20 caliber or larger.

Subsonic with alloy pellets.



Is the Crossman Valiant a good choice given these parameters? That was the best I could do on research, but I saw that some people thought the build quality on this rifle was unacceptable. But, other videos were impressed... 



I don't know! Please tell me your thoughts, guys, and share any recommendations you want. 



Thanks, new friends.

Pat
 
I haven't got mine yet but the seneca dragonfly would likely fit that bill nicely. It makes 15 fpe which is about 4 or 5 more than a powerful multipump and is 50 percent easier to pump. If you don't like pumping I second the hw50s or if your local gun shop has a diana 34 you may enjoy that one as well. Both are springer airguns with excellent accuracy close range and also powerful enough to kill squirrel if that's your jam. 
 
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Thanks Fugger ;) 

That's quite a bit more, but do you feel it's more than double quality / value / utility as the Valiant? 

It'll be a bit harder to bury $400 in the finances than $220.... I mean--- I didn't say that!
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The 50S runs $330 shipped from Krale. The 30S runs a little under $300.

They are both easily worth the money. They both come with what are concidered the gold standard for airgun triggers and will outshoot your kids for years to come. 

That Dragonfly MK2 that Raden mentioned is a pretty great gun as well from what I've seen. I haven't been lucky enough to play with one yet, but on paper they are amazing.
 
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Thank you so much. I love the thoughts of investing in something German made rather than spending money on something made in China.

But how can Krale sell these rifles so much cheaper than Pyramid Air?? 


I’m brand new to all this; I found pyramid last week and have just been browsing and reading reviews. 


Regarding .177, my thinking may be off… I just assumed that for subsonic shooting, I’d want the heaviest bullet possible to keep up energy. Maybe I’m wrong in my thinking?

No hunting for me. I grew up hunting but I can’t stomach it anymore. 

Thanks again, guys.


 
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"cheap, accurate and powerful"

Why powerful? A hit while plinking is a hit whether it's 10fpe or 30fpe. I, too, have more than my fair share of firearms (and airguns) and for general plinking, I just dont worry about power. I have just as much fun with a lower powered gun hitting spoons or carpenter bees as I do with anything else if I'm just plinking.

If you are starting with a springer then more power tends to mean heavier and more difficult to shoot. The HW50 was an excellent suggestion and something that could be passed down for a long time. The HW30 is also good, but I find it a little small. True, there are some decent and even good cheap springers, but it's a crapshoot. If you have higher end firearms, it's likely that you simply wont be impressed with some of the lower end options for springers.

I see you are in Michigan. I think a better course of action would be to see if there are any members near you who may have some different guns you can try out. This may give you a better idea (and hopefully appreciation) for what you would see as acceptable vs cost. 




 
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Thank you so much. I love the thoughts of investing in something German made rather than spending money on something made in China.

But how can Krale sell these rifles so much cheaper than Pyramid Air?? 


I’m brand new to all this; I found pyramid last week and have just been browsing and reading reviews. 


Regarding .177, my thinking may be off… I just assumed that for subsonic shooting, I’d want the heaviest bullet possible to keep up energy. Maybe I’m wrong in my thinking?

No hunting for me. I grew up hunting but I can’t stomach it anymore. 

Thanks again, guys.

Click to expand...

I can't answer the "how can they" question other than to say we aren't dealing with import fees/taxes on top of shipping fees. Krale is in the Netherlands which is why there is a $60 shipping fee to get them here. That being said, they get here quick. Almost every order I've ever placed from there was in my hands three days later. I'm not going to question it and just enjoy the convenience haha.

22 absolutely will maintain energy longer but .177 works perfectly fine assuming your expectations are reasonable. How far do you plan on shooting these guns? I was assuming 60yds or so but I have taken .177 out to 100yds on occasion.
 
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In springers, generally lighter pellets give more fpe. Not so with PCP, though. For .177 springers, I usually use around 8gr and around 12fpe. In .22 springers, I try to use 14-16gr at around 16-18fpe. Of course springers can be quite pellet picky and so the more accurate pellet may be heavier... 

but just know going in that compared to firearms, you're going to have a rather loopy trajectory anyway. It's all part of the fun. I'd say go .177 in something in the 10-12fpe range and have fun.

and I cant speak to 'why' Krale is cheaper, but I've bought from Krale and they ship fast and I've never had an issue. 
 
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You do get what you pay for, but even the higher priced guns have problems sometimes. If you are on a budget, I would ask specifically about the Hatsan offerings. There is a lot of information on the internet about how to service and improve these guns and they can be had very cheaply. Most owners seem to feel they represent a good value. As far as I know, all are made in Turkey.

Are you anywhere near AA?
 
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The Crosman pump guns are in your price range and a big step up from the Red Rider styled guns.

https://www.crosman.com/product/benjamin-392s-22

You can vary the energy output by the number of pumps as well. They were my next step up from the Red Ryder.

I gave my 20 year old Crosman pumper to my daughter 20 years back. It still shoots well.

The 2240, 2260 and similar co2 guns are great guns accurate and easy to modify to your wildest dreams. There is a huge number of aftermarket parts and vendors available for them.

https://www.crosman.com/product/crosman-2240-co2-bolt-action-air-pistol-22-caliber

https://www.crosman.com/product/crosman-2300t-competition-co2-air-pistol-177-caliber

https://www.crosman.com/product/crosman-2260-22

A step up from the pump guns for me. I even made my first PCP guns from these.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/the-true-cost-of-my-60-crosman-2240/?referrer=1

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/i-built-an-arrowgun-recovered-from-the-crosman-green-forum/?referrer=1

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/still-another-mod-for-the-ratgun-and-once-again-the-true-cost-of-a-60-crosman/?referrer=1

Or, if you want to jump right into the more powerful and longer distance guns there are the inexpensive Maximus and Fortitude PCP guns. Combined with a cheap $50 Chinese pump these guns are the beginnings to a new life on the dark side.

https://www.crosman.com/product/benjamin-maximus-22

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/maximus-victim-of-the-next-mod/?referrer=1

The pump, Co2 and PCP guns are far easier to shoot accurately than a spring gun for most of the population.

Many/most of the $250 spring guns are Chinese no matter what brand they are sold under so be aware of this if you are purchasing one.
 
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BioHazard, I can't even imagine being 1/10th as clever as you are after perusing your build threads. The quality is outstanding, but it's the guts to go yanking apart and drilling that impresses me most. 

RSFrid, welcome home, sir. I'm down by Grand Haven. 

After reading a bunch of reviews, it really seems like I can't go wrong with the Weihrauch HW50S. 

I do wonder if I'm way off base even going for a spring gun rather than a multi-pump.... again, I just don't know enough about it all. For example, I've heard they can really be harsh on optics (which astounds me, that they could be more harsh than a 5.56 or 7.62 - or maybe they're only harsh on cheap optics?) 

Would the 50S handle the 'Bug Buster' scope okay? I've heard so much good about that optic for an airgun scope in the last week of research. Or is there a better one? 

Haha, I'm a massive Newb here, and I appreciate your guys' time. 

I am blessed to live in a big woods, but I don't plan on ever killing anything with the air rifle. THAT SAID... when I walk in the woods, I do like to have some power. Plus, I would love to shoot as long-distance as possible. (For example, my favorite .22 plinking is 60 to 120 yards. I've got a 10/22 set up with an EOTech and magnifier with a 1-MOA dot that I absolutely love plinking with. Zeroed at 25 yards with 1,350fps ammo offers a *delicious* ballistic arc that makes it almost impossible to miss anything 1-inch or larger, even free hand, between 15 and 120 yards).



So, in summary....

1) Do you guys think I can't go wrong with the HW50S?

2) I know springers aren't exactly quiet, but they're going to be a lot quieter than a .22 long rifle, right? How do they compare to a suppressed .22 shooting subsonics I wonder?

3) Is the .22 version just as accurate / fun as the .177 version? Or is .177 the smarter choice?

4) Any other last minute advice knowing that I'm going for fun-factor and accuracy, and that I'm now willing to spend up to $350?



Thank you so much guys. I can definitely see how airguns could be much, much more fun than firearms. Even .22s.... I'm pretty health conscious after a cancer battle, and so handling lead is just a bummer these days. But mostly, I love how quiet and un-intrusive airguns are. My kids don't love me shooting my .22 near them, and that's a bummer. I want something I can step out the door, choose a pine cone or stone out in the yard, and plink away without it bumming anyone out.
 
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Oh boy you are in for a bunch of fun! I agree with the HW30 or HW50 choice because they are so well made. They are springers and they will have some hold sensitive issues, until I learned how to hold a springer they were very frustrating. Now that I understand how it is I can shoot my HW30 very accurately. I’m betting that you are going to end up with a PCP eventually, but a good German springer would definitely be a great choice in my opinion. Looking forward to seeing your journey! I’m so thoroughly hooked with this hobby it’s almost embarrassing lol! Welcome to a great forum.
 
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Dave, do you think I should just go straight to a PCP? 

Again.... sorry to need so much hand-holding on this, haha. One thing that intimidates me is that I live in Michigan and I just can't imagine we have any dive shops around to fill a high pressure tank. Is PCP even possible for a guy like me? And are PCP guns super noisy? 

God bless you guys. Thank you for the help.
 
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PCP + more money , a hand pump? , a compressor ? drive to a dive shop and $ to fill the tank you had to buy also .

Personally i think the HW 30 in .177 would be your best first real adult pellet gun 

I say this from Experience . I bought a HW97 first and had many frustrating days , then i picked up a HW35 at a gun show ($100used , beat up ) 

WOW i truly enjoy shooting the HW35 , and it has made me much better shooting the HW97 

oh P.S. .177 is also much less to shoot $$ wise 
 
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