First Time Buyer Question

[Rob_in_NC]

A lot depends on your expectations. Given that you are a self proclaimed fanatic on firearms, getting backyard trigger time will eventually lure you to the dark side of PCP's. 

PCP's are easy to make quiet, if they arent already from the factory and a simple hand pump will cost you 50 bucks. Not fun to hand pump, but it's doable. 

 

[Michigander]

More dive shops than you would think in Michigan. A couple in your area. People who continue to use springers just enjoy the simplicity, I know I do. But no denying that PCPs are easier to learn to shoot well, and I still prefer them for hunting. Yes, PCPs are noisier than springers unless well shrouded, but nothing like a 22lr.

 

[bamavet55]

Dave, do you think I should just go straight to a PCP? 

Again.... sorry to need so much hand-holding on this, haha. One thing that intimidates me is that I live in Michigan and I just can't imagine we have any dive shops around to fill a high pressure tank. Is PCP even possible for a guy like me? And are PCP guns super noisy? 

God bless you guys. Thank you for the help.

I know, you asked Dale, please forgive my intrusion. I read the entire thread and agree with the advice you've received so far. Since you asked about the PCP, I feel impelled to chime in.

I started my adult airgun journey with a springer from Wally World. That gun sits unused today. I tried to give it to my cousin and he refused to take it . Cuz is a bright guy.

You asked about the springers' destruction of scopes. My understanding is that this occurs due the spring guns' double-recoil -- the forward and backward motion of the shooting cycle. 

Noise level? I find springers to be noticeably louder that comparable PCPs with LDCs.

Costs?

The start-up costs for PCPs can be expensive and a turn-off to some potential air gunners. However, once you have an air source an other essential accessories, the cost is favorable compared to firearms.

Disclaimer: I said nothing about the financial toll of the airgunning addiction. To be fair though, I found bass fishing to be costly as well. Golfing?

Welcome aboard and good luck.

 

[maxtrouble]

Hello from Taylor, MI! I will echo everyone else and recommend the HW50S and/or the HW30S. The HW50 is the "goldilocks" of the Weihrauch line up. Light, well balanced and very accurate after a tin of pellets so the two of you get used to each other. Have good screwdriver handy, the screws will get loose while the rifles breaks in.

The HW30 is amazing. There is no way a rifle that small can have so much fun packed inside of it. How did the Germans do it?

Good ammo is great buy a sampler kit from JSB and H&N. Find the best pellets and buy five to ten tins at once. You are going to need them.

Happy Shooting!

 

[VonLuck]

Thank you all so much. 

You've got me sold on the HW30. 

All I need to do now is settle on .177 vs a larger caliber, but it seems like all you wise folks prefer .177, so maybe that's the final call!

Do you guys recommend the tuning kit? https://www.pyramydair.com/product/vortek-pg3-sho-tuning-kit-for-hw30-r7?a=9180



"How do the Germans do it??"

I can echo this sentiment! I have an old E46 BMW M3 that blows my friggen mind. Somehow this 3,000lb car feels as light as a feather. It seems to defy physics. I can't believe the car; it's one of the very few material possessions I own that has delivered more satisfaction than.... ooph. Now I want to go for a drive.



Thanks again for all your help. Is it a slam dunk with the .177? Or are there arguments in favor of a larger caliber?



Thank you guys so much.



Pat

 

[Michigander]

If you get the HW30 just enjoy shooting it for a year before thinking about a tune kit. I wouldn't open it up unless you start hearing nasty grating sounds when cocking, or it won't stop "dieseling" (smoke and loud bang) after working through a tin of pellets. Neither of those should occur with an HW. One of the appeals of the HW30 is its low cocking force and low recoil. If you want more power, you should be buying the HW50.

 

[Rob_in_NC]

If you get the HW30 just enjoy shooting it for a year before thinking about a tune kit. I wouldn't open it up unless you start hearing nasty grating sounds when cocking, or it won't stop "dieseling" (smoke and loud bang) after working through a tin of pellets. Neither of those should occur with an HW. One of the appeals of the HW30 is its low cocking force and low recoil. If you want more power, you should be buying the HW50.

sage advice... do the 'two tin tune' on it. Shoot a couple tins before messing with it. Good springers dont wear out, they wear in.

 

[VonLuck]

Now here's the next question....

Are there any lead-free pellets known to fly good through these .177 rifles?

Or does pretty much everyone shoot lead? Really hoping to avoid adding thousands of grain per year to my property, but I also want excellent and consistent accuracy!

 

[Sqwirl57]

Build a large trap and line it with duct putty. Super cheap, super quiet, and will last a decade. If you make the trap big enough you can even fit some spinners in there. I can't comment on alloy pellets though. I'm sure some have to work well enough but I've always stuck with the tried and true lead ones.

 

[VonLuck]

Thanks Sqwirl, but that ain't gunna work for me! I live on 120 acres and mostly enjoy walking through the woods and plinking. 

One of my biggest motivators for switching from .22 to airgun is to stop handling so much lead. It's for the land, and for my health: I just finished an insane bout with cancer, and I know (from DNA, tissue, and hair analysis) that heavy metal toxicity (mostly mercury from "silver" fillings and lead in my case) was one of the immune-weakening factors that contributed to the formation of the disease.

So, I'm hoping someone can offer alloy tips; but I suppose I can just buy a bunch of options and give them all a whirl ;D

 

[c_m_shooter]

I have heard good things about the H + N FTT Green. All HWs like H+N lead FTT's, so those would be my first to try. At the HW30 - HW50 power level .177 is the better caliber. If you decide you need something over 20 ft lb, that is where the .22 will start to shine.

 

[davelarson]

VonLuck, sorry for not answering sooner but I got distracted. This is just my opinion, from what my experience has shown me over the last six years. If you want superb accuracy and consistency at long range you will want a PCP eventually. And so far the best rifle I’ve shot at long range is the RedWolf HP in .22 shooting slugs. It’s simply unbelievable how good it is. 
But…you absolutely would love a springer too, my HW30S in .22 has the indoor shooting tuning kit and I shoot into a pellet trap from the recliner. One hole at 8 yards, and I can get a dime at 25 yards almost every time. After owning this little rifle I would never be without a springer again lol! The reason I chose .22 for the HW30s is because it’s going to be my indoor/back porch old man gun and the pellets are easier to load. I would choose .177 for flatter shooting if it was going to be used for distance.

Since you need to avoid the lead I’d wear a thin rubber glove on the hand you load with. And to contain the lead you could make pellet traps and put them in various places on the land, or always shoot into a round of firewood with a target on it. You could have walking shooting sessions that would be really fun.

You certainly wouldn’t need a RedWolf to enjoy the long range accuracy, it’s just the most accurate and satisfying rifle I’ve ever experienced. There’s a lot of great rifles for much less money, a used FX Crown would be an excellent choice for long range accuracy. And knowing what I know now about the sport I can say that the very best advice I’ve heard is “ buy once and cry once”.

If you know that you love shooting, and that it’s going to be a big part of your life, just do research and pick the best rifle you can afford. And a compressor because you won’t be able to put the rifle down and will be using a lot of air! 
I drive old vehicles and live in a trailer so I can be debt free and have these wonderful rifles, I think I have my priorities in line lol!! But I’m also single, a wife could possibly frown at my lifestyle that includes indoor shooting sessions. Holy cow, sorry I wrote a whole article Have fun picking out your rifle!

 

[Matt247365]

Thanks Sqwirl, but that ain't gunna work for me! I live on 120 acres and mostly enjoy walking through the woods and plinking. 

One of my biggest motivators for switching from .22 to airgun is to stop handling so much lead. It's for the land, and for my health: I just finished an insane bout with cancer, and I know (from DNA, tissue, and hair analysis) that heavy metal toxicity (mostly mercury from "silver" fillings and lead in my case) was one of the immune-weakening factors that contributed to the formation of the disease.

So, I'm hoping someone can offer alloy tips; but I suppose I can just buy a bunch of options and give them all a whirl ;D

You could try copper plated pellets.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-field-target-trophy-power-copper-plated-177-cal-8-80-grains-round?p=836

 

[VonLuck]

Dave, that is brilliant. 

I just read a review and looked at some sub-dime sized 100 yard targets on that RedWolf...... woooooaaaaaah. How can an air tank valve be tuned to offer a more precise application of air than a handload rifle round..? That is insane. What sort of projectile does the RedWolf shoot? What sort of velocity and speed? How loud is it?

I know that in the 1700s, Austrians experimented with "big game" air rifles; is it possible to get a .30 caliber air rifle with decent balistics? (150gr, 2,000fps+?) Is it possible to get one like that these days?

A $2,000 air rifle is a very distant future dream, haha - but if... my goodness.

Is it possible to get an air rifle that is comparable to the .300 Blackout concept? Something like a 250 grain+ slug flying at 1,050fps or so? 

I'd love to know how far people have taken / are taking air rifles. 

 

[VonLuck]

>> "Copper plated pellets.



Yes! I bought all three offerings of the H&N "green" pellets, I bought one (expensive, but cheaper than firearms) copper pellet tin, and one of that exact copper plated tins you linked.

Finding which one flies the best is going to be half the fun, I predict  



SCOPE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Do you guys have any tips? I'm going to put a 4x Leupold that I have laying around on it, but is that a good idea? One thing about that 4x is that at ultra close range (like, 8-10 yards), the reticle has a tendency to blur out a bit. (I have had that scope since I was 12, so I know it well). 

Is there a (ehem... less expensive) scope that is the go-to for airguns? 

Thanks guys! Can't wait to learn which pellet flies the best and then get to know it's ballistics. 

 

[c_m_shooter]

Dave, that is brilliant. 

I just read a review and looked at some sub-dime sized 100 yard targets on that RedWolf...... woooooaaaaaah. How can an air tank valve be tuned to offer a more precise application of air than a handload rifle round..? That is insane. What sort of projectile does the RedWolf shoot? What sort of velocity and speed? How loud is it?

I know that in the 1700s, Austrians experimented with "big game" air rifles; is it possible to get a .30 caliber air rifle with decent balistics? (150gr, 2,000fps+?) Is it possible to get one like that these days?

A $2,000 air rifle is a very distant future dream, haha - but if... my goodness.

Is it possible to get an air rifle that is comparable to the .300 Blackout concept? Something like a 250 grain+ slug flying at 1,050fps or so? 

I'd love to know how far people have taken / are taking air rifles.

Small bore pcps like the the redwolf are usually have shrouded barrels making them mouse fart quiet. the pellet hitting the target is louder than the shot. If unshrouded, they sound like a 22 short.

Big bores are louder, like an air nailer on a construction sight. I wear an earplug in my right ear because of the metalic ping that comes through the stock. Some are shrouded, and it helps, but you can't completely silence that volume of air.

No, you won't get high velocity with air. You are just fighting physics. Big bores can get up to about 45 long colt performance, and can take any game animal on the planet if you are a good hunter.

 

[VonLuck]

I understand, thank you for the reply. And wowza, that "Dragon Claw" is my kind of air rifle! I love the classic look. 

 

[davelarson]

This is a five shot group using 25.39 grain knock out slugs. It was shot at 130 yards with the .22 RedWolf HP, even though the group fell apart I was still amazed that the rifle can clover leaf three pellets at that distance.

The other two drifted away from the three but even they were touching. It would have been a magic group otherwise lol.

The other picture is of a five shot group at 70 yards with my .30 caliber Crown, it’s capable of an inch at 100 too if I do everything just right.

Be sure and check out the Benchrest section and the 101+ long distance section of the forum. There’s some guys posting pictures of more awesome groups than I’ve ever shot, some at 200+ yards!!

It’s definitely addicting to be able to do it.

 

[VonLuck]

Hello guys! 

Thank you again for AAAALL your help. The HW30 is a blast!!

That said, I'd like more power and the cocking difficulty will be worth it. 

I'd like to buy an HW90.

This probably isn't the place for this question, but would anyone want to buy a like-new (250 pellets) HW30 in Michigan? Would anyone have an HW90 in .22 they'd want to sell? 

Thanks gents

 

[Michigander]

Well that was fast. What is it you hope to do with a more powerful springer? You don't hunt, is it longer range you are looking for? Or is it just an itch you've got to scratch? Been there myself, but in the end came back to the springer sweet spot of 12-15 ft-lb. That will get you out to 50-60 yards with good accuracy, yet still can have a reasonably smooth shot cycle.

On the HW 30, won't the kids need it when they outgrow their Red Rider? It is also a good alternative for shooting indoors during the winter if you have the space.