Finally upgrading to a higher end PCP rifle

Well after thinking about it for at least a month now I decided to buy me Something better I hope. I pre-ordered a FX dream line. I wanted something that was light And looked like a conventional air rifle. They are supposed to be really accurate too.My most expensive air guns that I own now was $600 minus the scope. And most of my guns were around $300.So I will have close to $1400 in this one counting the scope.I just hope that it meets my expectations.This is gonna be my last air rifle purchase I think?

I was in a similar situation. I'm a longtime shooter, but new to a pcp. I went from a Benjamin Discovery (a very entry level pcp) to a .22 Dreamline Lite. Since then I have purchased (used) and sold several other pcps by different manufacturers. For whatever reason, I keep coming back to the Dreamline. I bet you'll enjoy it. If not, there are a lot of fine air rifles bought, sold and swapped here on AGN. 
 
thanks for posting the videos. I’ve seen the daystate video and to Knife’s point I see shelves of parts and they assemble the guns there. No CNC machines or barrel machines any machines. Not impressed really. 



For what it's worth, I once visited a Toyota and a Honda factory... and all they were doing was assembling parts. Should I be worried or disappointed ?

😉
 
@ctsshooter: after FX left AOA and created their own service center which is good for the customer, rumor is AOA wasn’t able to providing the level of service and support FX deem sufficient. Can’t knock AOA too much as it is also servicing many other guns but FX has more than enough service related work to have their own facility since their volume has increased dramatically and no reseller will be able to service that kind of demand at some point regardless. FX probably sell more than 10 times number of guns than when they were with AOA. And with a service center AOA probably wanted exclusive rights to sell FX which was not in FX’s best interest.

Whether AoA wasn't providing the level of support that FX wanted, or it was FX taking a hit doing warranty repairs on guns they hadn't even sold. Doesn't matter really to us as the consumer. FX made the right move with opening up a US service center. AoA needed a new brand to promote. 

I just buy the airgun that best meet my needs or wants - wearing a brand badge never mattered to me. 

I want to address your previous post though about Daystate not having in house CNC. IMO that doesn't mean their product is any better or worse than FX. Maybe Daystate outsources to the best machine shops in the UK based on the type of part being made knowing that they themselves could not do it better in house. Maybe they don't want to invest capital in a machine shop. Who knows - but that doesn't make them better or worse than FX.

Exactly right.
 
@ctsshooter: after FX left AOA and created their own service center which is good for the customer, rumor is AOA wasn’t able to providing the level of service and support FX deem sufficient. Can’t knock AOA too much as it is also servicing many other guns but FX has more than enough service related work to have their own facility since their volume has increased dramatically and no reseller will be able to service that kind of demand at some point regardless. FX probably sell more than 10 times number of guns than when they were with AOA. And with a service center AOA probably wanted exclusive rights to sell FX which was not in FX’s best interest.

Whether AoA wasn't providing the level of support that FX wanted, or it was FX taking a hit doing warranty repairs on guns they hadn't even sold. Doesn't matter really to us as the consumer. FX made the right move with opening up a US service center. AoA needed a new brand to promote. 

I just buy the airgun that best meet my needs or wants - wearing a brand badge never mattered to me. 

I want to address your previous post though about Daystate not having in house CNC. IMO that doesn't mean their product is any better or worse than FX. Maybe Daystate outsources to the best machine shops in the UK based on the type of part being made knowing that they themselves could not do it better in house. Maybe they don't want to invest capital in a machine shop. Who knows - but that doesn't make them better or worse than FX.

I think that with respect to Daystate’s manufacturing this is absolutely correct. Different companies have different, but often equally valid and effective, approaches to how they manufacture their products. There is absolutely nothing wrong with designing a product, outsourcing the production of certain components to experts in each particular area, followed by in-house assembly. It is not better, or worse, than doing everything in-house. I am an FX owner (of multiple rifles) and I absolutely love the rifles, but why that would make me want to bash Daystate is beyond me. Both companies are at the pinnacle of the consumer airgun market and got there through innovation and making great products.

For anyone who thinks having your product or components manufactured by contract manufacturers is somehow substandard, maybe you should never use an Apple product, or any automobile made by anyone anywhere.

Chris
 
@ctsshooter: after FX left AOA and created their own service center which is good for the customer, rumor is AOA wasn’t able to providing the level of service and support FX deem sufficient. Can’t knock AOA too much as it is also servicing many other guns but FX has more than enough service related work to have their own facility since their volume has increased dramatically and no reseller will be able to service that kind of demand at some point regardless. FX probably sell more than 10 times number of guns than when they were with AOA. And with a service center AOA probably wanted exclusive rights to sell FX which was not in FX’s best interest.

Whether AoA wasn't providing the level of support that FX wanted, or it was FX taking a hit doing warranty repairs on guns they hadn't even sold. Doesn't matter really to us as the consumer. FX made the right move with opening up a US service center. AoA needed a new brand to promote. 

I just buy the airgun that best meet my needs or wants - wearing a brand badge never mattered to me. 

I want to address your previous post though about Daystate not having in house CNC. IMO that doesn't mean their product is any better or worse than FX. Maybe Daystate outsources to the best machine shops in the UK based on the type of part being made knowing that they themselves could not do it better in house. Maybe they don't want to invest capital in a machine shop. Who knows - but that doesn't make them better or worse than FX.


Well said my friend.

B
 
I'm a big gun enthusiast but I'm pretty new to PCPs. My first PCP was a BSA R10 SE . It was a bit disappointing.

After that I purchased an FX Dream Tac in 0.22 and absolutely love it. Perfect crisp trigger that breaks at 15oz and will shoot JSB 18.1 gr in the 0.3s-4s at 50Y right out of the box.

The next rifle in my bucket list is the Delta Wolf.



Kind of surprised you said that, I used to own BSA SuperTen in .22 and that was a sweet rifle, regret that I sold it.

Honestly FX impact was the biggest disappointment of all of them, not because was something wrong with it just my expectation was set to high.

For clarification I own or used to own FX , Daystate, BSA, Steyr, RAW and few others and let me tell you, I like them all and all of them got their place.

B


 
I think that with respect to Daystate’s manufacturing this is absolutely correct. Different companies have different, but often equally valid and effective, approaches to how they manufacture their products. There is absolutely nothing wrong with designing a product, outsourcing the production of certain components to experts in each particular area, followed by in-house assembly. It is not better, or worse, than doing everything in-house. I am an FX owner (of multiple rifles) and I absolutely love the rifles, but why that would make me want to bash Daystate is beyond me. Both companies are at the pinnacle of the consumer airgun market and got there through innovation and making great products.

For anyone who thinks having your product or components manufactured by contract manufacturers is somehow substandard, maybe you should never use an Apple product, or any automobile made by anyone anywhere.

Chris





First of all I am listing my reasons for not buying any daystate guns, not intended to be bashing(bashing is rather social media or 5th grade style). With that out of the way the reason I normally dislike outsourced anything is because I've dealt with more than enough out source related problems, it's exceedingly frustrating and infuriating. Good enough is best outcome majority of the time. I even have friend who have small business just struggle to get any sort of QC or consistency besides consistently bad. And their number 1 wish when the businesses gets better? Buy machineries so they can take as much production in house as possible because our sourced company has zero vested interest in your business. 

Please don't compare small businesses like daystate to Apple and cars because they are operating with a scale where multiple factories are dedicated to making their parts AND company employees are on the ground doing QC, the amount oversight can't be overstated. I've worked at manufacturing companies and have many friends who have factories or deal with factories. In case Apple they are the prime example of slowly moving EVERYTHING to be made in house and just out source the assembly to china and India. And when it comes to cars I would only buy from 2 brands for similar reasons. 

Guess we can agree to disagree but personally I don't like how they run their business, if AOA part ways with daystate then what? If daystate actually setup their own shop like FX then it's a great thing for us as consumers. From my nerdy engineering, manufacturing and customer point of view FX is doing everything right. Again, it's my point of view and obviously many don't care nor agree which is fine because you spend your money and I spend mine. 👍


 
Well after thinking about it for at least a month now I decided to buy me Something better I hope. I pre-ordered a FX dream line. I wanted something that was light And looked like a conventional air rifle. They are supposed to be really accurate too.My most expensive air guns that I own now was $600 minus the scope. And most of my guns were around $300.So I will have close to $1400 in this one counting the scope.I just hope that it meets my expectations.This is gonna be my last air rifle purchase I think?

Congratulations man!


Enjoy that rifle when it comes in. I bet it’s going to be a real treat for you. It’s such a great reward to work, earn and save for a new air rifle especially when you step up and buy better stuff. Keep us posted on how you like it. 👊🏼


I only got through the first page of people pissing on your parade. Sorry to read that. So many compliment what a great community we have here and I would agree with that most of the time. It only takes a few to ruin it.
 
Its actually funny how some old FX models have good reputation and quality but new ones have so many problems. Its stupid to think inhouse machining is ticket for quality. Most cases its not. 1. Machines cost alot 2. When something goes wrong and it surely will happen you will have really long waiting time to get your CNC fixed especially some spareparts might take months to get to Sweden and FX size house cannot really afford to buy any extra CNC's than whats needed so there is ticket to delayed manufacturing. 3. Usually houses that have specialized and have long track record of OEM machining for customers have about 100times better QC than small company trying to quickly push everything out from door what they can.

Only edge of owning your machines is actually capability of machining and testing new prototypes without needing to wait someone to do it for you but that dosent really require much so I cant really see why FX took this route.. Maybe it was hard to find OEM manufacturer that would machine such low ammounts and cost efficiently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bandg
@jiikuu: guess we will have to agree to disagree. based on my personal and in-depth manufacturing experience in house manufacturing is the holy grail in every aspect especially when it comes to quality, only down side is it’s extremely costly! 


Edit: yes, I get you have a bias against FX for reason I don’t know nor really care to know. Hope you can convince more people to dislike FX! 👍
 
Its actually funny how some old FX models have good reputation and quality but new ones have so many problems. Its stupid to think inhouse machining is ticket for quality. Most cases its not. 1. Machines cost alot 2. When something goes wrong and it surely will happen you will have really long waiting time to get your CNC fixed especially some spareparts might take months to get to Sweden and FX size house cannot really afford to buy any extra CNC's than whats needed so there is ticket to delayed manufacturing. 3. Usually houses that have specialized and have long track record of OEM machining for customers have about 100times better QC than small company trying to quickly push everything out from door what they can.

Only edge of owning your machines is actually capability of machining and testing new prototypes without needing to wait someone to do it for you but that dosent really require much so I cant really see why FX took this route.. Maybe it was hard to find OEM manufacturer that would machine such low ammounts and cost efficiently.

Agree completely.
 
I think that with respect to Daystate’s manufacturing this is absolutely correct. Different companies have different, but often equally valid and effective, approaches to how they manufacture their products. There is absolutely nothing wrong with designing a product, outsourcing the production of certain components to experts in each particular area, followed by in-house assembly. It is not better, or worse, than doing everything in-house. I am an FX owner (of multiple rifles) and I absolutely love the rifles, but why that would make me want to bash Daystate is beyond me. Both companies are at the pinnacle of the consumer airgun market and got there through innovation and making great products.

For anyone who thinks having your product or components manufactured by contract manufacturers is somehow substandard, maybe you should never use an Apple product, or any automobile made by anyone anywhere.

Chris





First of all I am listing my reasons for not buying any daystate guns, not intended to be bashing(bashing is rather social media or 5th grade style). With that out of the way the reason I normally dislike outsourced anything is because I've dealt with more than enough out source related problems, it's exceedingly frustrating and infuriating. Good enough is best outcome majority of the time. I even have friend who have small business just struggle to get any sort of QC or consistency besides consistently bad. And their number 1 wish when the businesses gets better? Buy machineries so they can take as much production in house as possible because our sourced company has zero vested interest in your business. 

Please don't compare small businesses like daystate to Apple and cars because they are operating with a scale where multiple factories are dedicated to making their parts AND company employees are on the ground doing QC, the amount oversight can't be overstated. I've worked at manufacturing companies and have many friends who have factories or deal with factories. In case Apple they are the prime example of slowly moving EVERYTHING to be made in house and just out source the assembly to china and India. And when it comes to cars I would only buy from 2 brands for similar reasons. 

Guess we can agree to disagree but personally I don't like how they run their business, if AOA part ways with daystate then what? If daystate actually setup their own shop like FX then it's a great thing for us as consumers. From my nerdy engineering, manufacturing and customer point of view FX is doing everything right. Again, it's my point of view and obviously many don't care nor agree which is fine because you spend your money and I spend mine. 
1f44d.svg



Qball, I am not sure that we disagree.

I am a big FX fan, and think their approach to manufacturing is just fine. It certainly gives them more direct control over their various processes and I would think that it speeds and simplifies product development. My point was just that there are other models, and each company is free to take the approach that works for them. Having worked in and around manufacturing businesses all my life I just don’t believe that there is only one answer to anything. It is also clear to me (and it doesn’t matter IMHO if the company is large or small) that if you are going to outsource manufacturing, especially if its overseas, then you MUST invest heavily in Quality Control and assurance. This includes having your own personnel on the ground at the manufacturing site, and you must have tight specifications and the means to monitor your contractors adherence to them.

I don’t really know much about Daystate, so I can’t actually comment on how they run their business one way or the other. However the mere fact that they may have more outsourcing than FX doesn’t, in my mind, disqualify them in any way.

Chris
 
Congrats OP on the upgrade! It'll be much better than what you've been used to for sure!

Now to the point of FX in house being superior to Daystate out sourcing, on a whole which brand seems to have more QC issues? I'd bet money not Daystate. Daystate airguns are highly regarded and works of art. Having owned a few they are fantastic built guns regardless of where said parts come from. Many others will agree. So really the point of that holds no value. More than one way to do business and doesn't mean either is necessarily better than the other. Both extremely successful businesses pushing limits in there own ways. Just my opinion which again is an opinion and we all have them.