Field Target is an arms race.

[Iowa Airgunner]

I think when people first look at field target they get the impression it is expensive. But when you compare a good field target rifle to a kayak or bicycle it’s not that bad. I don’t think most people expect to compete at the top level. They just want to try and see how they do.
Then they get into it and start spending big money. But even then most people never even dream of buying a 2500 dollar scope. Have you priced electric bicycles? Any hobby can be expensive. But top level competition is not a hobby. Spend all the money on coaching guns and practice. Top level performance demands that.

 

[Franklink]

Is there any real evidence that FT is dwindling because it's too expensive?

In the 12 years I've been around it I've never heard of anyone that left because it was too costly.

I would imagine a new budget based division would have the potential to be as popular as the basic break barrel class. Had to practically beg people to shoot that.

Mike

The verb dwindle has a connotation of reduction, or petering out, or declining, at least to me. In that sense I agree that cost isnt a reason FT is dwindling. (On that note, is it dwindling?).

From what I've seen in the local clubs where I attend, aging out is a bigger reason folks quit coming than cost. There's a difference between aging out and stifling growth though.

Pretty sure I said something along these lines already in this discussion.....but one of two things happens with someone interested enough to come check out their first match: either the hook gets set deep and they start throwing money at FT, or we never see them again. I can't help but wonder if the "never see them again" faction simply can't rationalize the cost of a typical rig shot by the highest scoring shooters. And "can't accept it" could be because they've got more common sense than most of us field target nuts, or literally because their financial situation can't support spending at least a couple thousand to get going and be semi-competitive.

 

[HunterWhiteHead]

Frank said:
“Pretty sure I said something along these lines already in this discussion.....but one of two things happens with someone interested enough to come check out their first match: either the hook gets set deep and they start throwing money at FT, or we never see them again. I can't help but wonder if the "never see them again" faction simply can't rationalize the cost of a typical rig shot by the highest scoring shooters. And "can't accept it" could be because they've got more common sense than most of us field target nuts, or literally because their financial situation can't support spending at least a couple thousand to get going and be semi-competitive.”

Hunter said:
I agree, I don’t think that the notion of this sport is cost prohibitive is ever conveyed by a new member.
When I decided to join in the fun I told the match director that I would try to get a rifle that was $300 or so and a scope about the same. Then $700 rifle, $400 scope, every type of pellet available and a case. I already had an air tank. I am pretty sure that I’ve seen some prospective members shy away due to cost concerns.

I know that many people just don’t have a place to practice. I know that the top competitors shoot most days of the week.

The club in Oregon has identified a low cost starter rig. Perhaps this is a good start.

Hunter

 

[Franklink]

Ok, Let's assume that it is an arms race and that is a problem standing in front of expanding the Filed Target Game.

What if there was a new class, (AAFTA approved or not), that was "Free Style" with any air rifle under 20fpe and MSRP of total equipment under $1,000. And to support the vendors and tuners among us, we have two classes, "Out of the Box" no reworking at all except cleaning the barrel, and a class for improvements under $500. This will of course be hard to "Police" and be mostly up to the shooters to "do the right thing". A tuning invoice with the changes might be required. This would encourage the tuners out there to do their best for the fair AND the lowest price possible.... And encourage the manufactures and vendors to offer great "Out of the Box" air rifles and scopes.

What do you think?
Wayne

Wayne, I see this idea being more productive as its own stand -alone match, versus a class/division happening at the same time/match as guys running their número uno rig.

I could also see some use of this concept for a upstart club trying to get some membership built up, like the guy in Iowa that posts about building up a FT club.

 

[Airgunoregon]

Over the years of running a club and GP matches, we have seen a lot of folks that don't come back after they see what it's gonna take to play the game with any chance of even doing OK, let alone getting to the winners circle.

When they understand that it takes at least $1,500 to get set up with all the equipment, and then a whole lot of time finding and learning a steady position, and then a lot of time practicing follow through and wind reading. They just don't come back.

We find it's the retired folks who have that time and dedication... and money to freely spend in their retirement, that stick it out and come back to compete over the long run.

I agree that "stand alone" matches for the low price point equipment would be a great way to get that class going... along with having those classes at the regular matches. I still think there are some folks like Scott Hull who like to whoop the high price rigs with low price point equipment they upgrade. That attitude can be developed in others, I believe.

The Stand Alone, everyone has to shoot equipment in one of the two low price point classes, would encourage purchasing the equipment and trying it out for both newbies and experienced competitors who can afford to, and often just like collecting air guns and making them shoot as good as possible. Especially if the vendors would step up and offer some great prizes for the matches... and I think they would, I know AirGun Oregon would.

What ya say folks, would you try it out if the prizes were there for motivation?

 

[Motorhead]

Over the years of running a club and GP matches, we have seen a lot of folks that don't come back after they see what it's gonna take to play the game with any chance of even doing OK, let alone getting to the winners circle.

When they understand that it takes at least $1,500 to get set up with all the equipment, and then a whole lot of time finding and learning a steady position, and then a lot of time practicing follow through and wind reading. They just don't come back.

We find it's the retired folks who have that time and dedication... and money to freely spend in their retirement, that stick it out and come back to compete over the long run.

I agree that "stand alone" matches for the low price point equipment would be a great way to get that class going... along with having those classes at the regular matches. I still think there are some folks like Scott Hull who like to whoop the high price rigs with low price point equipment they upgrade. That attitude can be developed in others, I believe.

The Stand Alone, everyone has to shoot equipment in one of the two low price point classes, would encourage purchasing the equipment and trying it out for both newbies and experienced competitors who can afford to, and often just like collecting air guns and making them shoot as good as possible. Especially if the vendors would step up and offer some great prizes for the matches... and I think they would, I know AirGun Oregon would.

What ya say folks, would you try it out if the prizes were there for motivation?

Prizes paid for by higher entry fees is .. IMO a bad recipe and not going to get the type of folks your hoping or think it will.
When prize monies or prizes worth going for it get offered, the rule benders & cheaters perk right up having those with no business but stroking there egos to be at the top of a winners podium no matter the lack of ethics they may hide.
Or as we often see, the heavily sponsored shooters who generally don't pay for entries from there own pockets go after the top spots so those who sponsor them get top recognition etc etc ...
You make it a monetary game it absolutely will be an equipment race.

Take any sport or hobby and start making it a rewards for results event .... Many will bow out as the fun, sharing/ help and sportsmanship trends to thin out or disappear.

Just my personal feelings after years of seeing first hand this situation in many of my past sports / hobbies.

 

[thomasair]

Cash prizes are the devil.

 

[HunterWhiteHead]

Mike, it looks like you won 75 bucks there, not earth shaking but back in 2016 you could buy a bunch of pellets to practice for the next round.
Hunter

 

[Motorhead]

With no increase in entry fee ... Absolutely walk it to the line and get-r-done if able.
As to keep all in context and your obvious attempt at a dig ... falls flat
Tho THANK YOU for the $100
Your point Mike is ???

 

[thomasair]

Everybody looks happy and I don't recall any cheaters ruining anything.

 

[thomasair]

Mike, it looks like you won 75 bucks there, not earth shaking but back in 2016 you could buy a bunch of pellets to practice for the next round.
Hunter

That's not me in the middle....that's Chris Merritt.

 

[HunterWhiteHead]

Ah, sorry Mike, So it was Scott that took home the grand prize! I tried to follow the information that I had, unfortunately the link to the match for August 21, 2016 on the AAFTA website had a broken link for that date. It looks like this match was at Morrow Bay / San Louis Obispo. Was that the venue before Sacramento Valley? The signs in the photo must have been for the previous month. It was kind of confusing because that looked like Scott, but the leader board didn’t show that.

I’ve only started researching the field target stuff recently.

I see that you and Scott and a bunch of other members have been shooting this for decades.

Thank you all for hosting and supporting these events for so long.

The local match director is Jeff Cloud (current Chairman and treasurer of AAFTA), great guy. He helped me get started a few years ago.
Thank you Jeff!

I took 3 years off but I have started to practice again, and I have made two meets this year. I’m not very good but I have fun.

I normally wouldn’t get into such a thread with all of you ‘heavy hitters’ but I would like to see the sport grow. I am sure that you see things from the match directors side, I see things from a new shooters side, so I have a different perspective.
If my comments are not helpful just let me know.

So I guess you’re point is that a small cash award is like icing on the cake, but as Scott noted a large cash award is an invitation for malfeasance.

Hunter

 

[thomasair]

The money was for a silhouette side shoot that was in addition to the FT match. It was just an extra fun thing.

N50 BR gives out about 5000-8000$ in prize money every year at the N50 Nationals. There is never any trouble with cheaters.

Mike

 

[HunterWhiteHead]

Mike, I see your point. My experience is that it takes a LOT of study, practice, patience, the right equipment and more practice. Only a person dedicated to the sport would be able to make it to the finals.

So it’s a race of determination. That involves all of the above as well as the best equipment that you can get.

Hunter

 

[JW.]

The Open division seems like it is down (I would guess people going to WFTF for this and the last Worlds and some to Hunter) more than it has been in a while. Hunter however is larger than it was, I don't think we are losing people overall, I think that WFTF and Hunter are growing and Open is the division losing the people to WFTF and Hunter.

We have lost some of the tried and true competitors due to XFT/BR/LRS at the Nevada match, we are also losing some competitors that have not attended due to scheduling (they are XFT team members). RMAC has displaced some of our match attendance. We've been running the match on the same weekend for over a decade, RMAC was on father's Day (a bad idea) which was not an issue, since they have moved it to more than a weekend away it is a problem. Very difficult to compete with an event that has tens of thousands in prize money and several times more than that in prize offerings. Moving our match would put us in hotter temperatures and place our match really close to the next FT match. Until we can match or exceed the cash prizes of RMAC we will not get the competitors to jump from XFT/BR/LRS back to AAFTA FT.

A relatively new AG sport with real cash prizes using more conventional AG equipment has completely dominated FT for attendance, interest, growth, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.........at its current pace AAFTA FT is literally a "functional over 20 ft-lb target" away from becoming a Worlds WFTF practice day event. Skout AG has become a manufacturer due to this new sport, UT AG is moving into a MASSIVE new retail space. And people here are claiming prize money will turn AAFTA FT into a cheating thing? How much were the AAFTA FT prizes when Charles Garvey was disassembling scopes so 12x was really 24x? And conversely I have not heard of ONE cheating scandal from an XFT/BR/LRS event (Ashland, RMAC, etc, etc.) with tens of thousands on the line. Or as MN points out 5-8k on the line for BR prize money. Facts seem to lead to AAFTA FT having a cheating issue with NO cash prizes...not the other way around. And the reason is simple, its the rules.

You want attendance, offer REAL cash prizes and a simple set of rules (for competitors and for match directors). And like XFT/BR/LRS and PRS/NRL Hunter matches you will sell out before the event date arrives. When was the last time a Grand Prix sold out?? LOL

 

[JW.]

Regarding Costs:

Competition is not a 'hobby' in the common sense of a 'hobby'. Competition is using you and your equipment at high levels to win. A hobby is to mess about for some type of self gratification while spending what is typically a small amount of money.

You can hobby at an airgun competition, you can absolutely take a $50 Gamo with tin pellets and shoot a match. They don't need to spend a dollar more than what they are spending for their hobby and compete...

If you want to compete and be competitive you will need to spend money and time to get to where you want to go. The overall amount of time and money will be directly proportionate to where you want to go in competition. If you want to save money you'll have to make up for that in time and if you spend money to save time you'll just be spending more than you need because in many ways money can't make up for time behind the gun.

Competition being expensive is not an AAFTA FT thing, it is a competition thing. If anything FT can be one of the more economical ways to get into AG competition, 10 meter sure ain't cheap to get into...

The root issue is people think that because its an airgun it should be "cheap" and so it is a cheap competition to get into. In some ways this is true, in others it is not. Been looking into competitive PRS builds, just the rifle is the cost of everything associated with FT competition (rifle, scope, tank, jacket, bag, etc). Airguns are cheaper...

I wonder which would be easier/cheaper (or even possible):
Having a well known tuner build a competitive Marauder for Hunter FT knowing it needed to be (guaranteed) competitive with the top shooters and their equipment or buying a Daystate. I posit that there is not a tuner/builder out there who is willing to deliver a guaranteed competition ready top level Marauder for anything less than something very close to the cost of a high end airgun. So while people have used these rifles to a great degree of success getting one made by someone that will go toe to toe against the big wigs is not a thing, it is either not cost effective for the shooter or the builder (or they would be for sale everywhere). And if someone would build such a Marauder how long would it take...?

You are either in it to learn to tune/modify and compete or you pay the money (learn to tune) and compete.

If there were a shortcut we'd have come up with it after 25 pages!!! LOL

 

[Arzrover]

Can't believe this has gone on so long...
We were buying $1000 plus rifles in the mid 90s so I did an inflation calculation from 1996 to 2025. What cost $1000 then now costs $2046 according to the first calculator I saw. I paid $2000 for a Daystate CRX ST in 2001 and that would be $3800 now.
I know quite a few of us are still living in the past for cost but sheesh ... competition is just that and people have been spending a lot in my view since I very first heard about it in 1991.
I just see the competition as an EXCUSE to have something nice, not necessarily to buy a win...
Bob

 

[Bramezy]

Don’t forget FT is a very niche airgun event. It’s slow paced and very chill.
NRL22 is the closest thing I know of and that’s w completely different demographic of shooter. It’s the retirement sport lol.

 

[Franklink]

Don’t forget FT is a very niche airgun event. It’s slow paced and very chill.
NRL22 is the closest thing I know of and that’s w completely different demographic of shooter. It’s the retirement sport lol.

Golf of the shooting sports. In all the ways (including $$$).

 

[Jezter6]

Over the years of running a club and GP matches, we have seen a lot of folks that don't come back after they see what it's gonna take to play the game with any chance of even doing OK, let alone getting to the winners circle.

When they understand that it takes at least $1,500 to get set up with all the equipment, and then a whole lot of time finding and learning a steady position, and then a lot of time practicing follow through and wind reading. They just don't come back.

We find it's the retired folks who have that time and dedication... and money to freely spend in their retirement, that stick it out and come back to compete over the long run.

I agree that "stand alone" matches for the low price point equipment would be a great way to get that class going... along with having those classes at the regular matches. I still think there are some folks like Scott Hull who like to whoop the high price rigs with low price point equipment they upgrade. That attitude can be developed in others, I believe.

The Stand Alone, everyone has to shoot equipment in one of the two low price point classes, would encourage purchasing the equipment and trying it out for both newbies and experienced competitors who can afford to, and often just like collecting air guns and making them shoot as good as possible. Especially if the vendors would step up and offer some great prizes for the matches... and I think they would, I know AirGun Oregon would.

What ya say folks, would you try it out if the prizes were there for motivation?

IMHO you were doing good right until the last line. Yeah, we need to encourage ways for new shooters to get into a match and still knock down targets. No, what we dont need is people with 20+ years of FT going out there and absolutely dominating a newbie friendly class so that it's unsurprisingly 'uncompetitive' for the noobs to join. Adding in cash prizes just to give the old guys more incentive to go beat up on new people will SURELY bring more fodder for us to stomp on.