ERNEST ROWE’s Carbon Fiber STX Liner Sleeves keep my FX CROWN’s POI consistent!

[JoeKool]

Hello AirgunNation Peoples,



A couple of days ago I installed Ernest Rowe’s Carbon Fiber STX Liner Sleeve on my MKI Gen-2 FX Crown .25 caliber. Following his installation video here:







https://youtu.be/G5eaFA4iqno

Giving the new CF Sleeve 24 hours to cure to my Crown’s 600mm Standard Superior STX Liner after installation. I then re-installed the liner and re-zero’d my Crown @ 25 yards.

My FX Crown .25 when adjusted to these settings power wheel .25/.30 and hammer spring tension on “MAX” is power-tuned to shoot JSB KING HEAVY PELLETS 33.95g @ an average of 954 FPS / 68.62 FT-LBS. The NSA HP 33.5g SLUGS from my Crown shoot @ 944 FPS / 66.30 FT-LBS. on the same settings.





Today was a nice but windy day.
(aka piss-poor and gusty)

So I came up with a simple POI consistency test for the new more rigid Superior STX barrel configuration now in my Fx Crown .25. From 65 yards I setup a couple of shoot-n-see targets, each having five red bullseyes. Then, shoot 5 shot groups at each bull. One target will be shot with JSB 34.95g pellets and the other target with NSA 33.5g slugs.

Scope view 20x zoomed:

Hawke Frontier FFP 4-20 x 50 Mil-Pro

The POI / group placement results from my Crown shooting 5 shot groups on each bull.

All aim points being @ the center of the bull, each groups with the JSB 33.95g pellets landed low and to the left. Which coincides with the wind direction I had today. The far left JSB group I held half-a-mil to the right to insure it landed on the target. Overall though, all 25 shots taken with the pellets impacted in the same general area.

Noticing the Point Of Impact (POI) of the NSA 33.5g slugs, Yet again, from 25 shots worth divided into five 5-shot groups POI proved to be satisfyingly consistent. The wind was not a big factor with the NSA slugs. (**this is why I like slugs in less than ideal wind conditions) These groups were respectably tight and not wandering from any barrel movement.

Once again, let me remind you that this was a test of group placement. I was testing to see if my shot groups would shift from their general area of POI on target. Not so much match winning accuracy. Also, I topped off my FX Crown and moved it around a bit randomly between groups and/or shots.



So, I would have to conclude that Ernest Rowe’s Carbon Fiber STX Liner Sleeve is doing it’s duty in helping reduce point of impact shifts. Also, I am noticing pleasant harmonics, sound, feel, and less vibration to each shot! The barrel is still free floating but has a firmer rigidity about it. It’s gotten my stamp of approval and recommendation for those who have FX’s with similar style free-floating STX barrels like the FX Crown or Dreamline.







Thanks for viewing!!







JoeKool

 

[Greenarrow]

Too bad that had to be added to keep the POI consistent.


Happy it’s working for you now!

 

[intenseaty22]

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a  

 

[2L8]

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's . My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

 

[mtnGhost]

@joekool - awesome results!!! The Crowns are special in their own right, but damn!! Looking good man

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

This is a critical point right here. BEFORE wasting any time or effort doing this mod, you should test the liner's accuracy and precision with a low power tune. If it stinks, then you probably won't benefit from stiffening that particular liner.

Not to on Ernest Rowe, but that adhesive that he is using is not advised! You should use a better adhesive with the following properties:

1. anaerobic (dries in closed off spaces, very important)
2. gap filling (less gaps, better performance)
3. creeping (should find its way to saturate the space)
4. a more reasonable work & set time than that glue! 
   [/LIST=1]
   
   Loctite 638 does a better job overall. You get 4 minutes to position it, and it sets in 4 hours. I've done quite a few liners like this already, and it has not disappointed me thus far.
   
   I also found a ridiculously PERFECT tube for the .25cal Fx liners!!! American-made, extremely thick, with tighter tolerances between the liner and between the barrel sleeves. In theory - unidirectional tubing should provide a higher yield of strength for sleeving barrels, and that may be a little more true in the power world. However, this high-modulus tubing specification is VERY dense (still lightweight), and I noticed that it dampened the harmonic pitch / notes of the shot report.
   
   It's not cheap, but it's absolutely worth it to any serious shooters that have a great liner already (I haven't had any lemons yet with the new Superior liners btw). Here's the source: 
   
   https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/46631-hm
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[steve-l]

I tried to connect to the rockwestcomposites website and I receive a "FORBIDEN" message. I'm in Europe and am using a VPN (Boston). I would like to order a tube. What is happening?

 

[ChuckHunter]

@joekool - awesome results!!! The Crowns are special in their own right, but damn!! Looking good man

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

This is a critical point right here. BEFORE wasting any time or effort doing this mod, you should test the liner's accuracy and precision with a low power tune. If it stinks, then you probably won't benefit from stiffening that particular liner.

Not to

on Ernest Rowe, but that adhesive that he is using is not advised! You should use a better adhesive with the following properties:

1. anaerobic (dries in closed off spaces, very important)
2. gap filling (less gaps, better performance)
3. creeping (should find its way to saturate the space)
4. a more reasonable work & set time than that glue! 
   [/LIST=1]
   
   Loctite 638 does a better job overall. You get 4 minutes to position it, and it sets in 4 hours. I've done quite a few liners like this already, and it has not disappointed me thus far.
   
   I also found a ridiculously PERFECT tube for the .25cal Fx liners!!! American-made, extremely thick, with tighter tolerances between the liner and between the barrel sleeves. In theory - unidirectional tubing should provide a higher yield of strength for sleeving barrels, and that may be a little more true in the power world. However, this high-modulus tubing specification is VERY dense (still lightweight), and I noticed that it dampened the harmonic pitch / notes of the shot report.
   
   It's not cheap, but it's absolutely worth it to any serious shooters that have a great liner already (I haven't had any lemons yet with the new Superior liners btw). Here's the source: 
   
   https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/46631-hm
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

1. 
   
   Impressive research right there!!!
   
   I'm going to try this with my .30 Maverick soon...its already a serious tack driver with pellets but want to stiffen it up some for slugs!
   
   Now Need to get some measurements!!
   
   James from Michigan 

 

[Hande]

I tried to connect to the rockwestcomposites website and I receive a "FORBIDEN" message. I'm in Europe and am using a VPN (Boston). I would like to order a tube. What is happening?

I'm also in Europe (Finland), and the site is working just fine. I'm not using VPN.

Shipping to Finland costs:

Worldwide Expedited $142.89
Worldwide Express Saver $159.14

Ernest's sleeve shipping cost from 910 Airgun Tuning and Repairs LLC was "only" $57,07

 

[harrymoreland]

Fitted as standard on the MK3 Impact along with Ernest's short throw titanium cocking lever, (More conjecture).

Excellent post Joe.

 

[Ghostranger169]

Nice experiment, Joe! Thanks for sharing your results. Please let us know if anything changes with time.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Excellent post. Thanks. Where did you get those particular targets and wire frames?

 

[ladwict]

For 65 yards these are o.k.groups for shooting with slugs. However a carbon sleeve it is not needed to shoot these kind of groups. With or without carbon sleeve you need harmonic tuning in order to create tight groups. And also with the standard FX construction this is very much feasable. The interaction between hammer, ammunition, regulator, transferport , depth pellet/ slug seating , and barrel make a tune harmonic or not harmonic hence influencing the grouping. When you replace a few outer o-rings from around the liner with a carbon sleeve this gives probably a more constant/ rigid factor in your tuning as the o-rings might “ creep along” your liner when installing but my experience is that by fixing the o-ring. (Tape on both sides so they cannot move) so that you create a constant position on the liner the barrel element in the tune is under control . Maybe a sleeve could straighten crooked liners and give a positive influence. I do not know but that could well be as not all liners are 100%straight when sold. If I were FX I would not be happy with a guy who is telling us that the original product is not top notch in the barrel aspect hence a sleeve has to be added for tighter groups. Also I wondered why FX changed the Wildcat MK3 end cap construction with the result that Ernest could not sell his carefully developed Power Plenums anymore via 910 AIRGUNS. Half a year later now and Ernest did not come up with adapted PP by the way. I do believe that the relationship between FX and Mr Rowe is not what it used to be from what happens in the market and on the web. Just speculation of course but like I said for my taste Ernest is just indicating that a standard FX rifle barrel / liner construction is better of with his improvement offer ( CF sleeve) and that is not good marketing for FX in my pov. 

As I see it this sleeve does not per se improve harmonics but changes harmonics . Just an other element in the equation , and for the price of this sleeve I could buy 1000 o-rings . Might be worth experimenting with those ( amount , placement , groups, intersection etc) Anyone did so ?

I want to emphasize that I could be totally wrong as I do not have experience with the CF sleeve but I do have experience with “ harmonizing” my airguns a bit and know that there is a very delicate play amongst the elements I mentioned and a CF sleeve can not change that . I do prefer the liners to be able to be indexed easy as they are rather than more fixed and less “indexable” . Please also be aware that the amount and distribution of the glue/ epoxy will also contribute to the equation ..... “ think before you leap !”

it would be helpful if FX would make a statement about the effectiveness of the Ernest Rowe sleeves or his Power plenums . I really enjoy his WC Mk3 Power plenum on my Wildcat by the way. Perfect product . Interrupted supply by Fx changing construction making Ernest’s offer useless for all current WC buyers.

 

[JoeKool]

Too bad that had to be added to keep the POI consistent.


Happy it’s working for you now!

You’re implying that my consistency was bad before. Wrong. I never stated that.


Good backhanded compliment though, I see what you did there. lol



Truth is, this upgrade was just added on to make a good airgun better. To tighten things up, reduce flyers, and it’s doing the trick. I’m not as cautious with banging it around in the woods now also, sort of a durability confidence boost.



It’s all good Greenarrow, just clarifying things.



Joe

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a

I have done several posts on this very Crown .25, check out some of my past threads??



Joe

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

Awww man!

Thanks 2L8!

@joekool - awesome results!!! The Crowns are special in their own right, but damn!! Looking good man

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

This is a critical point right here. BEFORE wasting any time or effort doing this mod, you should test the liner's accuracy and precision with a low power tune. If it stinks, then you probably won't benefit from stiffening that particular liner.

Not to

on Ernest Rowe, but that adhesive that he is using is not advised! You should use a better adhesive with the following properties:

1. anaerobic (dries in closed off spaces, very important)
2. gap filling (less gaps, better performance)
3. creeping (should find its way to saturate the space)
4. a more reasonable work & set time than that glue! 
   [/LIST=1]
   
   Loctite 638 does a better job overall. You get 4 minutes to position it, and it sets in 4 hours. I've done quite a few liners like this already, and it has not disappointed me thus far.
   
   I also found a ridiculously PERFECT tube for the .25cal Fx liners!!! American-made, extremely thick, with tighter tolerances between the liner and between the barrel sleeves. In theory - unidirectional tubing should provide a higher yield of strength for sleeving barrels, and that may be a little more true in the power world. However, this high-modulus tubing specification is VERY dense (still lightweight), and I noticed that it dampened the harmonic pitch / notes of the shot report.
   
   It's not cheap, but it's absolutely worth it to any serious shooters that have a great liner already (I haven't had any lemons yet with the new Superior liners btw). Here's the source: 
   
   https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/46631-hm
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

1. 
   
   

   I tried to connect to the rockwestcomposites website and I receive a "FORBIDEN" message. I'm in Europe and am using a VPN (Boston). I would like to order a tube. What is happening?

   
   
   I'm also in Europe (Finland), and the site is working just fine. I'm not using VPN.
   
   Shipping to Finland costs:
   
   Worldwide Expedited $142.89
   Worldwide Express Saver $159.14
   
   Ernest's sleeve shipping cost from 910 Airgun Tuning and Repairs LLC was "only" $57,07

   
   
   
   Oh wow...
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Fitted as standard on the MK3 Impact along with Ernest's short throw titanium cocking lever, (More conjecture).
   
   Excellent post Joe.

   

   
   
   

   
   
   
   Thanks harrymoreland!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Nice experiment, Joe! Thanks for sharing your results. Please let us know if anything changes with time.

   
   
   Will do Ghostranger169!!
   
   
   
   Appreciate it!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Excellent post. Thanks. Where did you get those particular targets and wire frames?

   
   
   Duroseal gongs Academy Sports and Outdoors
   
   
   
   Shoot-n-see’s Amazon 
   
   
   
   iight then, Corvid_hunter!!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   For 65 yards these are o.k.groups for shooting with slugs. However a carbon sleeve it is not needed to shoot these kind of groups. With or without carbon sleeve you need harmonic tuning in order to create tight groups. And also with the standard FX construction this is very much feasable. The interaction between hammer, ammunition, regulator, transferport , depth pellet/ slug seating , and barrel make a tune harmonic or not harmonic hence influencing the grouping. When you replace a few outer o-rings from around the liner with a carbon sleeve this gives probably a more constant/ rigid factor in your tuning as the o-rings might “ creep along” your liner when installing but my experience is that by fixing the o-ring. (Tape on both sides so they cannot move) so that you create a constant position on the liner the barrel element in the tune is under control . Maybe a sleeve could straighten crooked liners and give a positive influence. I do not know but that could well be as not all liners are 100%straight when sold. If I were FX I would not be happy with a guy who is telling us that the original product is not top notch in the barrel aspect hence a sleeve has to be added for tighter groups. Also I wondered why FX changed the Wildcat MK3 end cap construction with the result that Ernest could not sell his carefully developed Power Plenums anymore via 910 AIRGUNS. Half a year later now and Ernest did not come up with adapted PP by the way. I do believe that the relationship between FX and Mr Rowe is not what it used to be from what happens in the market and on the web. Just speculation of course but like I said for my taste Ernest is just indicating that a standard FX rifle barrel / liner construction is better of with his improvement offer ( CF sleeve) and that is not good marketing for FX in my pov. 
   
   As I see it this sleeve does not per se improve harmonics but changes harmonics . Just an other element in the equation , and for the price of this sleeve I could buy 1000 o-rings . Might be worth experimenting with those ( amount , placement , groups, intersection etc) Anyone did so ?
   
   I want to emphasize that I could be totally wrong as I do not have experience with the CF sleeve but I do have experience with “ harmonizing” my airguns a bit and know that there is a very delicate play amongst the elements I mentioned and a CF sleeve can not change that . I do prefer the liners to be able to be indexed easy as they are rather than more fixed and less “indexable” . Please also be aware that the amount and distribution of the glue/ epoxy will also contribute to the equation ..... “ think before you leap !”
   
   it would be helpful if FX would make a statement about the effectiveness of the Ernest Rowe sleeves or his Power plenums . I really enjoy his WC Mk3 Power plenum on my Wildcat by the way. Perfect product . Interrupted supply by Fx changing construction making Ernest’s offer useless for all current WC buyers.
   
   
   
   
   
   

   
   
   Truth or conspiracy??
   
   
   
   I don’t believe it’s that serious though.. At least not to me.
   
   
   
   Thanks for the knowledge ladwict!
   
   
   
   
   
   Joe
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[Greenarrow]

Too bad that had to be added to keep the POI consistent.


Happy it’s working for you now!

You’re implying that my consistency was bad before. Wrong. I never stated that.


Good backhanded compliment though, I see what you did there. lol



Truth is, this upgrade was just added on to make a good airgun better. To tighten things up, reduce flyers, and it’s doing the trick. I’m not as cautious with banging it around in the woods now also, sort of a durability confidence boost.



It’s all good Greenarrow, just clarifying things.



Joe

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a

I have done several posts on this very Crown .25, check out some of my past threads??



Joe

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

Awww man!

Thanks 2L8!

@joekool - awesome results!!! The Crowns are special in their own right, but damn!! Looking good man

Thank you JK, Glad it is working well for you, and it show's 

. My Impact did not benefit with the carbon sleeve and tensioned with the DonnyFL, loosing the free floating aspect. Rigid? yes. More accurate, not so much. You have a winner there.

This is a critical point right here. BEFORE wasting any time or effort doing this mod, you should test the liner's accuracy and precision with a low power tune. If it stinks, then you probably won't benefit from stiffening that particular liner.

Not to

on Ernest Rowe, but that adhesive that he is using is not advised! You should use a better adhesive with the following properties:

1. anaerobic (dries in closed off spaces, very important)
2. gap filling (less gaps, better performance)
3. creeping (should find its way to saturate the space)
4. a more reasonable work & set time than that glue! 
   [/LIST=1]
   
   Loctite 638 does a better job overall. You get 4 minutes to position it, and it sets in 4 hours. I've done quite a few liners like this already, and it has not disappointed me thus far.
   
   I also found a ridiculously PERFECT tube for the .25cal Fx liners!!! American-made, extremely thick, with tighter tolerances between the liner and between the barrel sleeves. In theory - unidirectional tubing should provide a higher yield of strength for sleeving barrels, and that may be a little more true in the power world. However, this high-modulus tubing specification is VERY dense (still lightweight), and I noticed that it dampened the harmonic pitch / notes of the shot report.
   
   It's not cheap, but it's absolutely worth it to any serious shooters that have a great liner already (I haven't had any lemons yet with the new Superior liners btw). Here's the source: 
   
   https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/46631-hm
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

1. 
   
   

   I tried to connect to the rockwestcomposites website and I receive a "FORBIDEN" message. I'm in Europe and am using a VPN (Boston). I would like to order a tube. What is happening?

   
   
   I'm also in Europe (Finland), and the site is working just fine. I'm not using VPN.
   
   Shipping to Finland costs:
   
   Worldwide Expedited $142.89
   Worldwide Express Saver $159.14
   
   Ernest's sleeve shipping cost from 910 Airgun Tuning and Repairs LLC was "only" $57,07

   
   
   
   Oh wow...
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Fitted as standard on the MK3 Impact along with Ernest's short throw titanium cocking lever, (More conjecture).
   
   Excellent post Joe.

   

   
   
   

   
   
   
   Thanks harrymoreland!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Nice experiment, Joe! Thanks for sharing your results. Please let us know if anything changes with time.

   
   
   Will do Ghostranger169!!
   
   
   
   Appreciate it!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   Excellent post. Thanks. Where did you get those particular targets and wire frames?

   
   
   Duroseal gongs
   
   Academy Sports and Outdoors
   
   
   
   Shoot-n-see’s
   
   Amazon 
   
   
   
   iight then, Corvid_hunter!!
   
   
   
   
   
   

   For 65 yards these are o.k.groups for shooting with slugs. However a carbon sleeve it is not needed to shoot these kind of groups. With or without carbon sleeve you need harmonic tuning in order to create tight groups. And also with the standard FX construction this is very much feasable. The interaction between hammer, ammunition, regulator, transferport , depth pellet/ slug seating , and barrel make a tune harmonic or not harmonic hence influencing the grouping. When you replace a few outer o-rings from around the liner with a carbon sleeve this gives probably a more constant/ rigid factor in your tuning as the o-rings might “ creep along” your liner when installing but my experience is that by fixing the o-ring. (Tape on both sides so they cannot move) so that you create a constant position on the liner the barrel element in the tune is under control . Maybe a sleeve could straighten crooked liners and give a positive influence. I do not know but that could well be as not all liners are 100%straight when sold. If I were FX I would not be happy with a guy who is telling us that the original product is not top notch in the barrel aspect hence a sleeve has to be added for tighter groups. Also I wondered why FX changed the Wildcat MK3 end cap construction with the result that Ernest could not sell his carefully developed Power Plenums anymore via 910 AIRGUNS. Half a year later now and Ernest did not come up with adapted PP by the way. I do believe that the relationship between FX and Mr Rowe is not what it used to be from what happens in the market and on the web. Just speculation of course but like I said for my taste Ernest is just indicating that a standard FX rifle barrel / liner construction is better of with his improvement offer ( CF sleeve) and that is not good marketing for FX in my pov. 
   
   As I see it this sleeve does not per se improve harmonics but changes harmonics . Just an other element in the equation , and for the price of this sleeve I could buy 1000 o-rings . Might be worth experimenting with those ( amount , placement , groups, intersection etc) Anyone did so ?
   
   I want to emphasize that I could be totally wrong as I do not have experience with the CF sleeve but I do have experience with “ harmonizing” my airguns a bit and know that there is a very delicate play amongst the elements I mentioned and a CF sleeve can not change that . I do prefer the liners to be able to be indexed easy as they are rather than more fixed and less “indexable” . Please also be aware that the amount and distribution of the glue/ epoxy will also contribute to the equation ..... “ think before you leap !”
   
   it would be helpful if FX would make a statement about the effectiveness of the Ernest Rowe sleeves or his Power plenums . I really enjoy his WC Mk3 Power plenum on my Wildcat by the way. Perfect product . Interrupted supply by Fx changing construction making Ernest’s offer useless for all current WC buyers.
   
   
   
   
   
   

   
   
   Truth or conspiracy??
   
   
   
   I don’t believe it’s that serious though.. At least not to me.
   
   
   
   Thanks for the knowledge ladwict!
   
   
   
   
   
   Joe
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

1. 
   
   Wow Joe! I don’t know how you came up with you did but YOUR TITLE implied that your POI wasn’t consistent before the liner. It’s your thread. I was only congratulating you on solving a non-issue then? 
   
   
   As far as a backhanded compliment.... now you are implying something.
   
   
   Enjoy my friend!

 

[JoeKool]

Wow Joe! I don’t know how you came up with you did but YOUR TITLE implied that your POI wasn’t consistent before the liner. It’s your thread. I was only congratulating you on solving a non-issue then? 


As far as a backhanded compliment.... now you are implying something.


Enjoy my friend!

If I misinterpreted what you meant, my total bad. All good!!

 

[intenseaty22]

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a

I have done several posts on this very Crown .25, check out some of my past threads??



Joe

No, Joe, I have not seen your posts on that gun. My assumption, based on your thread title, as @greenarrow noted, is that the gun had a POI issue that the CF tube fixed.

Generally speaking I don’t spend time reading on guns or subjects that don’t interest me. (Nothing personal) Enter FX, I always had my reservations about them, but I decided that I would take a chance on a “proven” platform, Wildcat, and it bit me in the butt with precisely the same problem you alluded to. Which is why I read the post and commented on it.

In either case, I am thrilled your gun is shooting even better than it was before. More better is better always. I was forced to use a slightly oversized CF tube from Amazon for the WC as Ernest didn’t make a .177 one available. Even bought a plenum for it & the darn thing leaked. They never made that right either. Offered me the large one, but that’s not what I wanted. 

 

[mtnGhost]

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a

I have done several posts on this very Crown .25, check out some of my past threads??



Joe

No, Joe, I have not seen your posts on that gun. My assumption, based on your thread title, as @greenarrow noted, is that the gun had a POI issue that the CF tube fixed.

Generally speaking I don’t spend time reading on guns or subjects that don’t interest me. (Nothing personal) Enter FX, I always had my reservations about them, but I decided that I would take a chance on a “proven” platform, Wildcat, and it bit me in the butt with precisely the same problem you alluded to. Which is why I read the post and commented on it.

In either case, I am thrilled your gun is shooting even better than it was before. More better is better always. I was forced to use a slightly oversized CF tube from Amazon for the WC as Ernest didn’t make a .177 one available. Even bought a plenum for it & the darn thing leaked. They never made that right either. Offered me the large one, but that’s not what I wanted.

Every time I pity myself with my JSAR Raptor problems, I don't feel nearly as bad knowing what you endured in getting that WC to shoot right!

 

[nomojo65]

Haven’t seen mention or details of the CF sleeve and or compression tensioning of the Crown with the light weight barrel system?

Is there such thing or need for one?

 

[JoeKool]

I take it these are comparisons of the pellets and slugs with the Ernest CF added. Are there groups without it? This is.... Well...was a huge issue for me, why should top tier guns suffer from POI shifts in the first place? Why do they need a fix?

Great groups at that distance. Glad it’s shooting well for you. I would have been happy with that at 30 yards out of my .177 Wildcat. 

I got tired of waiting on the “Superior” supreme or supreme liners and sold my FX for a

I have done several posts on this very Crown .25, check out some of my past threads??



Joe

No, Joe, I have not seen your posts on that gun. My assumption, based on your thread title, as @greenarrow noted, is that the gun had a POI issue that the CF tube fixed.

Generally speaking I don’t spend time reading on guns or subjects that don’t interest me. (Nothing personal) Enter FX, I always had my reservations about them, but I decided that I would take a chance on a “proven” platform, Wildcat, and it bit me in the butt with precisely the same problem you alluded to. Which is why I read the post and commented on it.

In either case, I am thrilled your gun is shooting even better than it was before. More better is better always. I was forced to use a slightly oversized CF tube from Amazon for the WC as Ernest didn’t make a .177 one available. Even bought a plenum for it & the darn thing leaked. They never made that right either. Offered me the large one, but that’s not what I wanted.

Got it.


That’s some ordeal you had with your WC .177.


I’ll make it easy, this previous post below has pictures of groups shot at different distances with my Crown .25. Before installing the CF sleeve:



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/velocities-hot-or-not-with-fx-stx-superior-liners-and-diabolo-heavy-pellets/?referrer=1



Happy air gunning, and thanks intenseaty22!




Joe

 

[ladwict]

when I read that someone has problems getting a WC shooting tight groups at 30 yards I feel an urge coming up saying some encouriging words and I hope Joe does not mind using his thread here for that.

In general a rifle ( any rifle) coming out of a factory is not tuned to your specific needs. Hence not as accurate as it can be for you.
It is probably tested in the factory for acceptable precision with a few pellets of an average weight and size ( mostly jsb pellets) at an average speed ( let’s assume around 880 fps for a .177) and put in a box for sale. Now this rifle arrives at your desk and you start shooting it . Any change you do to the gun in terms of pelletweight , pelletshape/ size, regulator pressure, putting a moderator on , adjusting the hammerspring , holding it or having it on a rifle stand in a specific way, etc. etc will influence the path of the projectile and your p.o.i. and the consistency of it. The reason of this is called “ HARMONICS” . From the moment you pull the trigger of a gun this gun starts to vibrate like a guitar string . Ever so slightly but enough to have a wave pattern of highs( antinodes) and lows( nodes) . This wave pattern can be influenced by “playing around” with many parameters in and around your gun. One of them is stabilizing or changing the weight, or length of you barrel . This is where Joe’s carbon sleeve comes into the equaion . In case you do not want to make it your hobby to “ tune” your gun by securely and precisely fiddling around these parameters it can be good luck when your gun shoots very well out of the box with your preferred ammunition but part of the real fun is getting a feel and experience with this tuning process and have satisfaction when you get your gun shoot better then before. I bet that tuning the WC .177 by experienced hands like those of Joe and so,many others here on the forum would improve its performance . By just implementing a Power plenum ( sorry to hear it leaked) or any other single random adaption does not do the trick. All elements ( ammunition , hammerspring tension, reg. Pressure, seating depth , barrel index, etc have to be in balance in order to get best precision at that specific speed with that specific pellet or slug. That balance takes care of your ammunition leaving the barrel at a low of the amplitude in a constant repeatable way. Doing that with lowest possible waste of air and low velocity spread. Provided the base construction of a gun is at a good level the proces of trying to balance things out to the max is a nice part of our hobby and I can recommend this to all who expect a gun to shoot perfectly fine out of the box and are a bit dissapointed. However in case your rifle shoots just fine for you out of the box you are fine to leave it as it is as good is good and not always when you start working around its tune things will improve. So when you are happy with your gun just shoot it till you need an other ...