Electronic Springer

When you make something more complicated it tends to break.

Then you fix it!

Haha. Unlike most of the people on this thread, I literally am not invested emotionally in this debate, but too true Septic, if it breaks fix it.



That being said, to ratio the motor to a gear box and then to a pulley mechanism to the the trigger assembly is a lot of extra redundancies. Most springers under a certain dollar amount can run into breaking/fixing scenarios as you rightfully and optimistically (always love that) point out. That being said, my Hw95 has never broken,ever. It is dead on always. It is simple. It is built like a tank. Now imagine taking that same rifle and adding 50 more points of potential failure: from the battery to the motor, the wires there, oh and the charging dock too, and then the gears and what they are made of (plastic gears tend to strip especially when used back to back as they heat up and can actually melt [I know this from racing high end performance RC cars, which would have a similar transmission like gear box as what would be needed]), and then you have the track or pulley system which can get jammed too as it pulls back the spring or piston, and then finally you have a more complex trigger system now too because first you need it to lock before the trigger disengages the tension, and there are about two ways to do this: one electronically where the motor ends its cycle on the lock, one electronically where the trigger engages an electronic servo or a solenoid to release the piston or air. You also additionally have more complexity with safety and your loading. Lastly any moisture issues with electronics complicates things. This is just a few things I can think of quickly.



I love new ideas, but the argument that it took hundred of years to arrive at a 747 when flight used to be thought impossible seems like a fallacious one to me by the OP (not you Septic). While I appreciate the optimism of the OP and some of the sentiment for handicapped shooters that lack the physical strength, and for some reason can’t afford a pcp, I think the fallacy exemplified in the logic above is one of begging the question. Allow me to explain.



OP has used the example of technologically achievement as a standard to judge whether or not this is a good idea. But that is not how one logically assess its merits, especially given that it may never be better than a simple mechanical springer for many reasons, reliability most of all. The question is: “is an electronic springer a good idea” or something along those lines. We already know it is possible, but does the device actually function to a standard of reliability, affordability, and precision as a regular springer. But if your claim is “this is a good idea” then asserting that given technological progress it is a good idea just like a Boeing 747 is circular logic. The reason a Boeing 747 exists isn’t because the Wright Brothers knew that their ideas would lead to an inevitable Jet, but rather that flight was a good idea in itself and at that moment in time; because of their good ideas many other ideas built off of theirs until the 747 was born. But let’s say the Wright brothers cited the printing press as a reason to justify having a Rube Goldberg machine being built inside their Wright Flyer. The claim would “it is a good idea to have a Rube Goldberg Machine inside a plane,” and whether a printing press existed or not had little to do with the pros or the cons of having a complex Rube Goldberg Machine inside an air plane in the first place. Obviously the electronic springer can function: but is it a good idea. In my opinion no, simply because it is adding weight and many parts that can break, and obviously the financial cost. That is, it is a bad idea in comparison to the simple mechanical process of a springer. Is it a bad idea in general? I don’t know, perhaps, perhaps not. But I would wager that it is still a bad idea even without anything to compare it to. The invisible hand of the market tends to kill bad ideas. If this was a good one, it should be in every gun store. But it isn’t. Reliability is doubtful, and the more reliably it is made would increase weight significantly, and finally those moving parts would probably cause accuracy to suffer.



Maybe just maybe in the future someone will think of a way to make it more feasible, but feasibility doesn’t answer to question of whether one ought to have one in the first place.




@legionair



Sorry forgot to type in the OP’s name. 
 
@airgun.cal, I never asked the question whether it was a good idea or not. I stated that it would be an awesome rifle if the drawbacks were improved. I also stated it’s an ingenious invention. Ingenuity is not always synonymous with success. 


I never mentioned the Wright brothers. I was generalizing about all aviation innovators who continued to pursue their inventions despite naysayers. This rifle could’ve been the Wright brothers plane of the electric spring/gas ram rifle. Also, you’re mixing up the Girandoni reference which is a PCP rifle developed hundreds of years before the Wright brothers were a twinkle in their daddy’s eye
 
@airgun.cal, I never asked the question whether it was a good idea or not. I stated that it would be an awesome rifle if the drawbacks were improved. I also stated it’s an ingenious invention. Ingenuity is not always synonymous with success. 


I never mentioned the Wright brothers. I was generalizing about all aviation innovators who continued to pursue their inventions despite naysayers. This rifle could’ve been the Wright brothers plane of the electric spring/gas ram rifle. Also, you’re mixing up the Girandoni reference which is a PCP rifle developed hundreds of years before the Wright brothers were a twinkle in their daddy’s eye

No I wasn’t mixing up the Girandoni, I was making an illustration, and also making an illustration with the Wright Flyer and the Rube Goldberg Machine. Correct, ingenuity doesn’t equate to success. But I do not know if adding electronics to a springer is ingenious, given my reasons sited above. I think it is rather like the imaginary example of the Wright Brothers placing a Rube Goldberg machine intricately built around the plane.



Just my opinion, but thanks for the reply. I will be interested in what others say.
 












I have the Rutten Airstar, the electronic model and also the Rutten Winstar the cocking model. As I understand it, Rutten was manufacturing these guns in the mid to late eighties. They were more expensive than the Weihrauchs and FWB 124 /127's and also the pcp market was getting into full gear. So, price point and market timing contributed to their demise. The electronic model gets about 200+ shots to a charge. Anyone who struggles to cock a break barrel or underlever due to injuries or age will appreciate this gun. I find it doesn't take any longer to load a pellet than loading a break barrel. You can commence loading while the gun is cocking( takes 3-4 sec to cock) The Winstar model is by far my easiest gun to manually cock. (I have HW77, a couple of 127's and Theoben underlever). The Winstar is an underlever and will cock in both directions...out from stock and also back to its resting place to complete the cocking motion. Very fast and efficient! The gun can only be cocked with the safety on...a nice feature. Both guns load the pellet the same, similar to a tap loader. It can be a bit finicky but once you get the technique it is not an issue. The engineering and finish of both guns is superb and they are both a joy to shoot.
 












I have the Rutten Airstar, the electronic model and also the Rutten Winstar the cocking model. As I understand it, Rutten was manufacturing these guns in the mid to late eighties. They were more expensive than the Weihrauchs and FWB 124 /127's and also the pcp market was getting into full gear. So, price point and market timing contributed to their demise. The electronic model gets about 200+ shots to a charge. Anyone who struggles to cock a break barrel or underlever due to injuries or age will appreciate this gun. I find it doesn't take any longer to load a pellet than loading a break barrel. You can commence loading while the gun is cocking( takes 3-4 sec to cock) The Winstar model is by far my easiest gun to manually cock. (I have HW77, a couple of 127's and Theoben underlever). The Winstar is an underlever and will cock in both directions...out from stock and also back to its resting place to complete the cocking motion. Very fast and efficient! The gun can only be cocked with the safety on...a nice feature. Both guns load the pellet the same, similar to a tap loader. It can be a bit finicky but once you get the technique it is not an issue. The engineering and finish of both guns is superb and they are both a joy to shoot.

Man oh man! This is the post I was waiting for! Thank you for sharing your pics and experience with the Ruttens. There were a lot of assumptions being thrown around about the quality of the rifle, it’s good to hear from someone who actually owns them. It’s even better to hear that the engineering and finish are superb. To be honest, I’m more interested in that two way cocking rifle than the electric. The engineers at Rutten sure were ingenious and innovative!
It’s a shame they came into the market at the wrong time with the wrong price point.
If you ever decide to sell any one of them please shoot me a pm 
 
Very interesting! I wonder why these fell out of favor? I could see it being a budget-friendly alternative to PCPs, but with the entry price of PCPs getting lower over that past few years that may be why we didn't see this kind of technology take off.

To be clear, this is an older gun, made in the late 1980's or early 90's, IIRC. It was made by Rutten in Belgium, sold in Europe as the "Airstar," and then imported to the US by Browning. No one is suggesting this as an alternative to modern PCP's - which were around in those days, but had not yet come to dominate the market like today.

As seen above, top-quality rifles! But I think they didn't catch on mostly because they were VERY expensive in their day, and I suspect the. mechanical complexity and dependence on a battery were not widely appealing. To my mind it's a fascinating design, but perhaps an answer to a question that no one had asked, LOL. 

Check out the shot of the guts, and unique loading method, in this brochure on the "Vintage Airguns" site: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/rutten/rutten-brochure-mid-1980s/ 
 
To my mind it's a fascinating design, but perhaps an answer to a question that no one had asked, LOL.

Lol. That’s a good way to put it. Problem is with air rifles is if no one is demonstrating them(like AG stores, youtubers) then people are hesitant to drop coin on it, especially at a price that was 4 times what a quality break barrel was going for at the time. I’m assuming very few US retailers stocked the Rutten air rifles because of the price and the fact that the rifle would need to be sent allll the way back to Belgium to get serviced. Tying up money in stocking expensive rifles that are an unknown and the service issue make it a risky investment. 
Regardless of the financial aspect of the rifles, they are amazing examples of Airgun innovation. Without those who develop radical innovations we would not have the world we live in

Thanks for sharing the link 
 

Looks like they never sold any of them unless the listing is so old the reviews got erased? 
At least they show the specs

At 9 fpe , the electric version is a bit stronger than an HW30, not bad for a “novelty”

That Mach 1 is looking more and more appealing with the 12 fpe. Not too strong where you’d have all that movement from a springer and the cocking must’ve been EXTREMELY light with a the light 12 fpe spring and the 2 way cocking mechanism!

AND they made a pistol too. Thanks for the links




 


Check out the shot of the guts, and unique loading method, in this brochure on the "Vintage Airguns" site: https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/rutten/rutten-brochure-mid-1980s/

1594776237_7335737735f0e5aad354d10.94097331.jpeg

Wow! It’s like looking at the insides of a nice watch
 












I have the Rutten Airstar, the electronic model and also the Rutten Winstar the cocking model. As I understand it, Rutten was manufacturing these guns in the mid to late eighties. They were more expensive than the Weihrauchs and FWB 124 /127's and also the pcp market was getting into full gear. So, price point and market timing contributed to their demise. The electronic model gets about 200+ shots to a charge. Anyone who struggles to cock a break barrel or underlever due to injuries or age will appreciate this gun. I find it doesn't take any longer to load a pellet than loading a break barrel. You can commence loading while the gun is cocking( takes 3-4 sec to cock) The Winstar model is by far my easiest gun to manually cock. (I have HW77, a couple of 127's and Theoben underlever). The Winstar is an underlever and will cock in both directions...out from stock and also back to its resting place to complete the cocking motion. Very fast and efficient! The gun can only be cocked with the safety on...a nice feature. Both guns load the pellet the same, similar to a tap loader. It can be a bit finicky but once you get the technique it is not an issue. The engineering and finish of both guns is superb and they are both a joy to shoot.

Man oh man! This is the post I was waiting for! Thank you for sharing your pics and experience with the Ruttens. There were a lot of assumptions being thrown around about the quality of the rifle, it’s good to hear from someone who actually owns them. It’s even better to hear that the engineering and finish are superb. To be honest, I’m more interested in that two way cocking rifle than the electric. The engineers at Rutten sure were ingenious and innovative!
It’s a shame they came into the market at the wrong time with the wrong price point.
If you ever decide to sell any one of them please shoot me a pm

Everything I've read about them have been they are good shooter. Beautiful guns. I would love to have them in my collection. I like the WINSTAR MACH 1 D.E. a lot and am going to start searching for one. If I run across the Airstar I would seriously consider buying it just because its different. 
 
Everything I've read about them have been they are good shooter. Beautiful guns. I would love to have them in my collection. I like the WINSTAR MACH 1 D.E. a lot and am going to start searching for one. If I run across the Airstar I would seriously consider buying it just because its different.

Yea after finding out about the Mach 1 I’m leaning towards that one too, but wouldn’t hesitate to grab an Air Star at the right price