Electronic Springer

I’ll say one thing legionair, you sure got a lot of people fired up in a negative way by showing us this rifle. It seems these days everybody’s first response to anything is to choose a side, draw a line in the sand, and be ready to punch anyone who comes close to it.

I’m glad you made the post - I’ve never even heard of such a concept for an air rifle. 
 
Very interesting! I wonder why these fell out of favor? I could see it being a budget-friendly alternative to PCPs, but with the entry price of PCPs getting lower over that past few years that may be why we didn't see this kind of technology take off.

Or maybe they realized it was stupid to begin with
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Many people think hunting with air guns is stupid and a waste of money. I bet there were people to think it was stupid at every new stage of development for air guns. It was once considered stupid to try and fly a plane against the laws of physics but yet here we are today with stupid Boeing 747s. You know what’s stupid, to dismiss something as stupid because one iteration of it didn’t catch favor with the crowd1

No it's Stupid because It is! Its loud, heavy and probably Impossible to shoot straight. That a paper puncher at best! No way in hell after all that racket Noise and 10mins later to cock, that the game is still around. So Like I said probably realized it was stupid and saved a poop load of money!!


 
Ronmcc4, 😂 some people do get defensive of their beliefs. Drawing a line that closes them off to ideas that oppose their opinions. Whether that’s the case here or not doesn’t bother me. 
I posted about the rifle because it’s an ingenious way to remove the physical force to cock a springer. I mention in the OP that this particular electronic springer has its drawbacks that make it more of a novelty, but I believe there is potential to develop the technology. Whether it would make financial sense or not is another matter. A superior electronic springer could be developed with the technology we have now in brushless motors, graphite batteries, smaller controllers, better software. Especially with a gas ram it wouldn’t have that springer twang or vibration.
 
Very interesting! I wonder why these fell out of favor? I could see it being a budget-friendly alternative to PCPs, but with the entry price of PCPs getting lower over that past few years that may be why we didn't see this kind of technology take off.

Or maybe they realized it was stupid to begin with
1f937-1f3ff-200d-2642-fe0f.svg

Many people think hunting with air guns is stupid and a waste of money. I bet there were people to think it was stupid at every new stage of development for air guns. It was once considered stupid to try and fly a plane against the laws of physics but yet here we are today with stupid Boeing 747s. You know what’s stupid, to dismiss something as stupid because one iteration of it didn’t catch favor with the crowd1

No it's Stupid because It is! Its loud, heavy and probably Impossible to shoot straight. That a paper puncher at best! No way in hell after all that racket Noise and 10mins later to cock, that the game is still around. So Like I said probably realized it was stupid and saved a poop load of money!!


Quite insightful. It must be that time of the month for you
 
You know what’s funny, when the fellas who invented the gas ram tried to sell it to manufacturer’s no one bought into it. They took it upon themselves to R&D everything and manufactured the gas Rams with no ones help. And what do you know some of the best shooting break barrels have Theoben gas rams. If they had given up like the electronic springer folks they no one would know about gas rams 
 
Have the gas ram bleed out the pressure after each shot. Then you can cock it with one finger. Then simply build a direct injected gasoline engine into the stock to power a high pressure air pump to charge the ram back up. 

The gasoline engine can also be fitted with a charging coil , and could charge the lithium battery needed to operate the solenoid trigger for a crisp 1/2 ounce release. 

Kick start backup for when the battery goes dead.

Emissions equipment may drive up the cost and weight slightly. But at least it won't have any of the hassles of a PCP! 

🙂

But in all seriousness, airgun manufacturers could work on improving the efficiency of the guns they already make. Do that, and cocking effort would fall substantially. Which not only would make a complicated electric cocking situation unnecessary, but if it was implemented would make it much easier to do since the demand on the parts was greatly reduced. 

You can gain 30-40fps in a bone stock HW97 just by going to an oring piston and drilling the transfer port to 3.4mm That's with zero change in cocking effort, recoil, anything. They need to address the inherent faults before moving forward. Doing that would make the whole project easier, lighter, and less expensive to produce. Which is always the end goal in a profitable business venture. And only profitable ventures are interesting to a manufacturer. 🤘
 
You know what’s funny, when the fellas who invented the gas ram tried to sell it to manufacturer’s no one bought into it. They took it upon themselves to R&D everything and manufactured the gas Rams with no ones help. And what do you know some of the best shooting break barrels have Theoben gas rams. If they had given up like the electronic springer folks they no one would know about gas rams

Yes but spring guns are still the overwhelming majority of "good" piston powered airguns. And the company that pioneered them went out of business. 

Even after 100 years, the humble coil spring is still the majority even with twang and all the horrors that come with them. 
 
It’s still the majority because they have their factories geared specifically to pump out the same rifles they’ve been making for 50+ years. I’ve never owned a gas ram rifle but the technology is proven and IMO is better than a spring. Regardless of whether the original inventors shutdown shop, it appears they have licensed the technology to multiple manufacturers, one of them being Sig for the ASP20. And it’s a helluva rifle from what I see. I don’t think gas ram tech is going anywhere. On the contrary, I think some manufacturers will make more use of the technology 
 
Have the gas ram bleed out the pressure after each shot. Then you can cock it with one finger. Then simply build a direct injected gasoline engine into the stock to power a high pressure air pump to charge the ram back up.

How about building a pcp with a digital microprocessor and solenoid-powered air valve monitor control every nanosecond of the firing cycle. While we’re at it, let’s add a gun control unit for advanced battery management. Better yet, and electronic trigger and an electronically controlled Huma regulator
 
Very interesting! I wonder why these fell out of favor? I could see it being a budget-friendly alternative to PCPs, but with the entry price of PCPs getting lower over that past few years that may be why we didn't see this kind of technology take off.

Or maybe they realized it was stupid to begin with
1f937-1f3ff-200d-2642-fe0f.svg

Many people think hunting with air guns is stupid and a waste of money. I bet there were people to think it was stupid at every new stage of development for air guns. It was once considered stupid to try and fly a plane against the laws of physics but yet here we are today with stupid Boeing 747s. You know what’s stupid, to dismiss something as stupid because one iteration of it didn’t catch favor with the crowd1

No it's Stupid because It is! Its loud, heavy and probably Impossible to shoot straight. That a paper puncher at best! No way in hell after all that racket Noise and 10mins later to cock, that the game is still around. So Like I said probably realized it was stupid and saved a poop load of money!!


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These were not uncommon when I was a kid (in Holland).

I would love to see one from the inside. How does this work?

I have handled non electric Rutten springers and they are well made.


I bet they weren’t uncommon being that the Belgium factory wasn’t too far from holland. That’s what interests me most about the rifle is how they made it work. I understand the basic principle that a motor is used to turns gears that compress the spring. Good to know that at the very least Rutten produced a good air rifle, regardless of the fate of their electronic springer. Thanks for the input!
 
How about building a pcp with a digital microprocessor and solenoid-powered air valve monitor control every nanosecond of the firing cycle. While we’re at it, let’s add a gun control unit for advanced battery management. Better yet, and electronic trigger and an electronically controlled Huma regulator

The Benjamin Rogue ePCP .357 almost fits this bill...I have one and I must say, it's an interesting shoot.

I too enjoy the oddities of the Airgun world. Wouldn't mind having a shoot with this one as well.
 
When you make something more complicated it tends to break.

Then you fix it!

Haha. Unlike most of the people on this thread, I literally am not invested emotionally in this debate, but too true Septic, if it breaks fix it.



That being said, to ratio the motor to a gear box and then to a pulley mechanism to the the trigger assembly is a lot of extra redundancies. Most springers under a certain dollar amount can run into breaking/fixing scenarios as you rightfully and optimistically (always love that) point out. That being said, my Hw95 has never broken,ever. It is dead on always. It is simple. It is built like a tank. Now imagine taking that same rifle and adding 50 more points of potential failure: from the battery to the motor, the wires there, oh and the charging dock too, and then the gears and what they are made of (plastic gears tend to strip especially when used back to back as they heat up and can actually melt [I know this from racing high end performance RC cars, which would have a similar transmission like gear box as what would be needed]), and then you have the track or pulley system which can get jammed too as it pulls back the spring or piston, and then finally you have a more complex trigger system now too because first you need it to lock before the trigger disengages the tension, and there are about two ways to do this: one electronically where the motor ends its cycle on the lock, one electronically where the trigger engages an electronic servo or a solenoid to release the piston or air. You also additionally have more complexity with safety and your loading. Lastly any moisture issues with electronics complicates things. This is just a few things I can think of quickly.



I love new ideas, but the argument that it took hundred of years to arrive at a 747 when flight used to be thought impossible seems like a fallacious one to me by the OP (not you Septic). While I appreciate the optimism of the OP and some of the sentiment for handicapped shooters that lack the physical strength, and for some reason can’t afford a pcp, I think the fallacy exemplified in the logic above is one of begging the question. Allow me to explain.



OP has used the example of technologically achievement as a standard to judge whether or not this is a good idea. But that is not how one logically assess its merits, especially given that it may never be better than a simple mechanical springer for many reasons, reliability most of all. The question is: “is an electronic springer a good idea” or something along those lines. We already know it is possible, but does the device actually function to a standard of reliability, affordability, and precision as a regular springer. But if your claim is “this is a good idea” then asserting that given technological progress it is a good idea just like a Boeing 747 is circular logic. The reason a Boeing 747 exists isn’t because the Wright Brothers knew that their ideas would lead to an inevitable Jet, but rather that flight was a good idea in itself and at that moment in time; because of their good ideas many other ideas built off of theirs until the 747 was born. But let’s say the Wright brothers cited the printing press as a reason to justify having a Rube Goldberg machine being built inside their Wright Flyer. The claim would “it is a good idea to have a Rube Goldberg Machine inside a plane,” and whether a printing press existed or not had little to do with the pros or the cons of having a complex Rube Goldberg Machine inside an air plane in the first place. Obviously the electronic springer can function: but is it a good idea. In my opinion no, simply because it is adding weight and many parts that can break, and obviously the financial cost. That is, it is a bad idea in comparison to the simple mechanical process of a springer. Is it a bad idea in general? I don’t know, perhaps, perhaps not. But I would wager that it is still a bad idea even without anything to compare it to. The invisible hand of the market tends to kill bad ideas. If this was a good one, it should be in every gun store. But it isn’t. Reliability is doubtful, and the more reliably it is made would increase weight significantly, and finally those moving parts would probably cause accuracy to suffer.



Maybe just maybe in the future someone will think of a way to make it more feasible, but feasibility doesn’t answer to question of whether one ought to have one in the first place.




 
How about building a pcp with a digital microprocessor and solenoid-powered air valve monitor control every nanosecond of the firing cycle. While we’re at it, let’s add a gun control unit for advanced battery management. Better yet, and electronic trigger and an electronically controlled Huma regulator

The Benjamin Rogue ePCP .357 almost fits this bill...I have one and I must say, it's an interesting shoot.

I too enjoy the oddities of the Airgun world. Wouldn't mind having a shoot with this one as well.

That Benjamin rogue looks interesting I would’ve definitely bought one if I were in the PCP world at that time

Oddities always interest me especially in guns, all types of guns. Like the Lematt black powder revolver that has a 20 ga shotgun barrel underneath the .44 barrel