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Edgun Lelya?

That's a lot of trouble to go to. If they wanted me to buy a Red Wolf, all they'd have to do is switch to Weaver/Picatinny scope rails.

Yeah, but it works. People, myself included, keep an eye on things like EBR to get some idea of what the best of the best are using. It is much like Cal Zant's data collection on "what the pros use" in the PRS series. People want to know because if one design is head and shoulders above the rest they want to be shooting that. And I'm sure Daystate didn't miss the fact that part of FX's ascendancy is linked to both Ted Bier's proclivity to them and their dominance at EBR. Still don't believe me? Take a look at the pics coming back from the DS booth at SHOT this year. They probably paid Claudio Flores to fly up and work their booth, they did a limited edition gun to "match" his competition gun, they've got the guns signed by him, they're using his win at EBR as part of a huge marketing push. 

Now whether or not this is working I couldn't say, but I'm betting it worked at least to some extent. 



Ed is in a bit of a tight spot with all this, because he "invented" the airgun bullpup but it was rapidly copied by just about every major manufacturer. I still think his guns are exceptional and speak for themselves in their own way, and I love that Russian styling, but without the backing of a precision shooter to advocate (in English) for them, a lot of us just grit our teeth at the price and go with a more proven or less expensive rifle. 



And now I'm going to say something controversial that gets me in hot water: the core design on the Edguns looks to my eyes like a design which will develop enough internal turbulence to reduce accuracy. There, I said it. Moderator designs are just like firearm suppressors, in that you're balancing how much POI shift and accuracy loss is acceptable against how much sound mitigation. Being the quietest in and of itself isn't that remarkable because you can really piss away accuracy in doing so, and airgun pellets are WAY WAY WAY easier to disrupt than bullets. And Ed is fighting with trying to push as much suppression into as small a package as possible, and my guess is for clearances and to try and regain a little accuracy, that is why he went with the size bore in the core he did. It is just speculation obviously, but if you aren't getting the accuracy you want out of a Lelya I'd start looking there. I'd be an incredibly fun challenge to try and build a moderator core for the Leishy or Lelya to try and eek the most in terms of accuracy and suppression out of that platform though. That is some complex design work which would just tickle me pink. 



This post is getting a bit long and ramble-y, so I'll just wrap up by saying that shorter barrels don't innately reduce accuracy, they are every bit as accurate as their longer counterparts all else being equal. That is a common misconception, in both airguns and firearms. Where this may start to break down is things like higher muzzle pressures generating more turbulence upon exit, and more capacity for disruption within the moderator. Both of these things could be mitigated with a more optimized moderator/air stripper system. 



Of course I don't own a Lelya, so take what I say with a big pile of salt. Also, what do I know anyway? I'm just some nutcase on the internet. :p 
 
Let me add two cents in this topic, once not only my guns, but me, personally, was mentioned. And I will be honest and maybe not pleasant as usually, sorry for that :)



Competition. My problem is that I hate all those tricks, directed to catching the attention of the potential customers. I know that it is a normal, one made something, one needs to sell it. But I still cannot overpower myself, still remaining the same amateur who has started that bullpupmania in the airgun world almost 20 years ago. I don’t want to follow the “established” rules, to pay those bloggers in order to advertise what I produce, to pay the shooters them showing they are happy with my guns. Because I see what’s happened to Ted. I don’t know whether you noticed it or not but it is obvious for me that he lost the interest in what he is doing regarding airguns, I see yearning in his eyes. I feel that it is now more job than fun for him. To my opinion he lost the sincerity in what he says. No way I am not condemn him, I still respect him as person and appreciate what he has done for the airgun society but I, personally, has unsubscribed from his channel and get to know about his new video only when somebody gives me the link. That is too sad… So, I don’t want to turn myself into the condition when I have to do it only because I have to! I prefer to have fun and enjoy with what I do. I’m playing business like a kid, I’m not working in business. I know that sounds stupid and naïve but that is how I feel. That is why I don’t want to play the rules of the game. I don’t want to turn into the next faceless producer :)



That is why I don’t care whether my guns are used for the competitions or not. I hope that you are aware that being in that business for almost 20 years not as office clerk I can built a gun ready for the competition? :) But I just feel it too boring, to measure whose dick is longer, that is game for those who is not sure in himself. I know that I made good guns. I make them good not because I need to sell them (though money is a good bonus) I made them better because I like to explore new levels and reach them. That is a kind of game, like “Monopoly” you know. When you move card, throwing dice. It is fun, it is not work! :)



That is the only reason why I don’t care of the “classic” ways of promoting :)



And one thing, just to open the real situation with the guns I make. Yes, I am a funny guy, a clown, no problem :), but I have an engineer degree. Igor, who is working with me for over 10 years already (you could see him in some video, big guy with bolded head) is an engineer as well. We don’t make the guns based on the empirical way, no way. We use different tools, including the software to calculate the flows (professional ones). We have access to the super computer to calculated some parts of the guns, including the moderators and other parts. So, being an amateur in sales me and my team are far away of being the same amateurs in what we made. Just take it into consideration :)



Yours truly



Ed


 
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Mike,

one reason we didn’t see and Edguns at EBR is that Edgun has chosen not to sponsor shooters be giving them rifles or payments to use their rifles. Ed is not a believer in this type of marketing , I think he feels the quality of his guns speak for themselves but based I what I saw at EBR the top shooters all seamed to favor Daystate or FX. I also think that AGA pushed Daystate as they aren’t happy that FX decided to take care of being the US distribution center and repairs over them. This past EBR it seemed that Daystate was making a big effort to push FX and RAW off the top by getting new faces to use their gun. I’m not knocking the quality of Daystate or FX it’s just hard for smaller companies to match the offers to the top shooters . Some of the top shooters are able to make a living off the sport and great for them. I had asked one shooter if he switched to the RedWolf over the RAW for any particular reason and was told it was strictly a business decision on his part as a great shooter will do well with any capable rifle they become comfortable with.

Brian, I totally agree with what you said, makes sense. I did notice the "Wolf Pack" at EBR, and almost all of them shooting the RW HP version in .22. (JSB RD Monsters).

The thing is, there were also quite a few people there shooting that weren't sponsored in any way. None of the 40 that shot Sportsman Class were sponsored as far as I know. The second place overall was the Sportsman winner and he shot a stock .30 FX Crown. But any of us could have shot an EDgun R5, or R5M in .25 or .30 if we wanted to, right? I'd say that less than half of the 120 guys that shot Pro were sponsored, and could have shot whatever gun worked best for them. 

I know Ed's position on not paying people to shoot his equipment and respect that. But to be honest, I thought I would see at least one or two EDguns at EBR, and was surprised I didn't. Just my two cents...
 
One thing I like about edgun's is their solid no frill construction. They look like a tool you can take out into the woods and use as a club if need be; and afaik there are no bench rest variants being made. As much as I dont care for either the bench rest aesthetic or functionality; if thats your sport, I can imagine going for the 6 DOF adjustable cheek piece and what not.

Sorry for the necromancy; but keep doing what you are doing, is what I am trying to say. No point in trying to make a single model that appeals to every niche.
 
Mike,

one reason we didn’t see and Edguns at EBR is that Edgun has chosen not to sponsor shooters be giving them rifles or payments to use their rifles. Ed is not a believer in this type of marketing , I think he feels the quality of his guns speak for themselves but based I what I saw at EBR the top shooters all seamed to favor Daystate or FX. I also think that AGA pushed Daystate as they aren’t happy that FX decided to take care of being the US distribution center and repairs over them. This past EBR it seemed that Daystate was making a big effort to push FX and RAW off the top by getting new faces to use their gun. I’m not knocking the quality of Daystate or FX it’s just hard for smaller companies to match the offers to the top shooters . Some of the top shooters are able to make a living off the sport and great for them. I had asked one shooter if he switched to the RedWolf over the RAW for any particular reason and was told it was strictly a business decision on his part as a great shooter will do well with any capable rifle they become comfortable with.

Brian, I totally agree with what you said, makes sense. I did notice the "Wolf Pack" at EBR, and almost all of them shooting the RW HP version in .22. (JSB RD Monsters).

The thing is, there were also quite a few people there shooting that weren't sponsored in any way. None of the 40 that shot Sportsman Class were sponsored as far as I know. The second place overall was the Sportsman winner and he shot a stock .30 FX Crown. But any of us could have shot an EDgun R5, or R5M in .25 or .30 if we wanted to, right? I'd say that less than half of the 120 guys that shot Pro were sponsored, and could have shot whatever gun worked best for them. 

I know Ed's position on not paying people to shoot his equipment and respect that. But to be honest, I thought I would see at least one or two EDguns at EBR, and was surprised I didn't. Just my two cents...

I bet if a bunch of 22 R3Ms and 25 R3 longs showed up that would shuffle the scores. 
 
My farthest shot at my house is at 130 yards. I have no issues hitting pigeons and collard doves with my .22 Lelya using 18 grain JSBs at that range. Sure, I miss now and then but I doubt its the gun. I also do not use a bi-pod or anything. I just use my body as a rest most of the time while sitting in a chair on my back porch. I have thought about going to EBR and being that it is only about a 40 min drive for me it would be easy to do. I just have no desire to compete and I do agree with ED about there being a bunch of airgun politics going on with these comps. Im only reading about this and as I stated, I have no desire to compete, therefore have not been to one. Thinking about the political side it makes me wonder what really happened between FX and Airguns of Arizona. Part of me feels that FX was not happy that one of their airguns did not win that year and was taken out by a Brocock. Dont really know but its just a thought. To some degree I almost think that there is a bit of cheating going on with the scoring and just maybe FX was not happy about the results that year. I would not be surprised if there was just a bit of money being handed out behind the scenes to favor a brand.