ED , HD , Tactical , AR223 , and other Useless Scope Terms.
- Thread starter JoeWayneRhea
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The Hawke ED may be true ED ...It costs enough but who knows ? I like Hawke stuff , not love but like ...But if I am going to spend basically 1k on a scope ...It most likely won't be a Hawke . Scratch that ... It WONT be a Hawke.
I think the Hawke Vantage series is one of the true bargains out there in budget scopes ... Especially the 2-7 and 3-9 models . But to me , and this is just one guys opinion ....As Hawke models get more expensive you get less value for the dollar .
They make some of the coolest reticles out there for airgunners, all focus to close distance, and they have very good warranty service to back up their scopes . But pure mechanical ability of the scopes tracking , and quality of glass for what you pay ...I think there are better choices .
I think the Hawke Vantage series is one of the true bargains out there in budget scopes ... Especially the 2-7 and 3-9 models . But to me , and this is just one guys opinion ....As Hawke models get more expensive you get less value for the dollar .
They make some of the coolest reticles out there for airgunners, all focus to close distance, and they have very good warranty service to back up their scopes . But pure mechanical ability of the scopes tracking , and quality of glass for what you pay ...I think there are better choices .
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I have a Hawke 10-50 ed with the mil turrets, it’s OK for a scope costing 1k, but as Joe says there is better value to be had at that price.
However, the glass is true ED, and as a result the image is good to excellent. The reticle is superb, and the center crosshairs are actually a very small space, allowing you to see your point of aim.
As an amateur astronomer I am no stranger to paying exhorbitant prices for good glass. I can’t afford the Japanese glass but lately Taiwan is producing some top quality true ED optics, I think that the hawke uses Taiwanese glass...
The scope is very good at 50x if you take the care to look through the optical sweet spot! This is difficult without adjustable mounts, there is only 9 mil of elevation available on the turret.
i picked up a second used one from someone who didn’t understand that he needed about 20 moa of cant to make that scope work well on his rifle.
Due to the high bore axis and loopy pellet arc he had to dial 7 mil into the turret to zero at 40 ft, looking through the scope with that much elevation dialled in resulted in looking through the scope off optical axis.
This is the downside to the scope, and probably why it’s not more popular, but there are few scopes out there that have ed glass, parallex to 10 yards, very good Horus like reticle, great warranty and mil/mill turrets/ret costing what it does.
After using my ED on my .177 out to 100yards I became a scope snob, I am now poorer for the privilege as I can’t buy non ED anymore.
However, the glass is true ED, and as a result the image is good to excellent. The reticle is superb, and the center crosshairs are actually a very small space, allowing you to see your point of aim.
As an amateur astronomer I am no stranger to paying exhorbitant prices for good glass. I can’t afford the Japanese glass but lately Taiwan is producing some top quality true ED optics, I think that the hawke uses Taiwanese glass...
The scope is very good at 50x if you take the care to look through the optical sweet spot! This is difficult without adjustable mounts, there is only 9 mil of elevation available on the turret.
i picked up a second used one from someone who didn’t understand that he needed about 20 moa of cant to make that scope work well on his rifle.
Due to the high bore axis and loopy pellet arc he had to dial 7 mil into the turret to zero at 40 ft, looking through the scope with that much elevation dialled in resulted in looking through the scope off optical axis.
This is the downside to the scope, and probably why it’s not more popular, but there are few scopes out there that have ed glass, parallex to 10 yards, very good Horus like reticle, great warranty and mil/mill turrets/ret costing what it does.
After using my ED on my .177 out to 100yards I became a scope snob, I am now poorer for the privilege as I can’t buy non ED anymore.
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Wow wow ow ! I am SO glad my eyes can only see 20/20 ! And I am SO glad I am not a military sniper in combat ! Because my eyes only get so "expensive", before I can no longer appreciate the differences ….. out to 100 yds that is. I mean, that is the farthest I normally shoot. So under 100 yds, my Athlon shows me everything those expensive ones do! I'm sure at long distances, under challenging conditions, I would need a much better scope.
And I am also thankful I must have a six tier scope. Because it is a touch clearer than several of Bob's VX 3 when we tried to read newspaper, and compare them at 100 yds. Because I could NEVER afford one of the scope near the top of Mr Rhea's tier range !
And you bet heavy impact …. Discovery scopes are FUGLY !!!! But if the glass is good, I am okay with it on a Bench gun. I would be afraid animals may laugh at it in the field, LOL.
Considering you can buy a $400 Athlon scope for $189 shipped, I am not sure I can see spending any more, thankfully ! I would die if I were putting a $3000 scope on a $1500 air rifle.
And I am also thankful I must have a six tier scope. Because it is a touch clearer than several of Bob's VX 3 when we tried to read newspaper, and compare them at 100 yds. Because I could NEVER afford one of the scope near the top of Mr Rhea's tier range !
And you bet heavy impact …. Discovery scopes are FUGLY !!!! But if the glass is good, I am okay with it on a Bench gun. I would be afraid animals may laugh at it in the field, LOL.
Considering you can buy a $400 Athlon scope for $189 shipped, I am not sure I can see spending any more, thankfully ! I would die if I were putting a $3000 scope on a $1500 air rifle.
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HD, ED etc, are interchangeable "marketing" terms in reality, a better "non marketing term" is "very dense" glass utilising minerals and flourite, to help minimise distortions caused by light passing through the lenses.
High Definition is a marketing term usually associated with televisions.
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Hi Joe, what score would you give to Vortex Diamondback FFP 6-24x50? 1-10? I mean optical quality.
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The new diamond back FFP for the money ... Optical quality is about average for $400 .I'd say 3.5-4 , There are sharper image quality scopes iat this price . But I still like it a lot because SO few FFP scopes have a reticle that is usable on the low end , and at the same time not thick as a brick on the high end .
Vortex hit a good sweet spot with that for sure . Put that to geher with their warranty and how well it tested on Focus POI test . And it's a winner
Vortex hit a good sweet spot with that for sure . Put that to geher with their warranty and how well it tested on Focus POI test . And it's a winner
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Joe,
I'm really happy with my VT 4.5-18 x44 Discovery scope. I don't have the best eyes at my age anymore. I wear glasses. Yet I can see my targets with very good clarity and I can see the reticle at all magnifications. I'm not a scope expert and have never looked through a really high dollar scope. In point of fact, I don't even know where to go to do that. I cannot even imagine something better than I have. I guess I have to accept my ignorance here. People like me will always have to depend on people like you that have had the opportunity to do the comparison. I paid about $350 for my scope. So, I guess the question is if I were to do a comparison, would the difference I see be worth the 100% to 200% cost difference?
I'm really happy with my VT 4.5-18 x44 Discovery scope. I don't have the best eyes at my age anymore. I wear glasses. Yet I can see my targets with very good clarity and I can see the reticle at all magnifications. I'm not a scope expert and have never looked through a really high dollar scope. In point of fact, I don't even know where to go to do that. I cannot even imagine something better than I have. I guess I have to accept my ignorance here. People like me will always have to depend on people like you that have had the opportunity to do the comparison. I paid about $350 for my scope. So, I guess the question is if I were to do a comparison, would the difference I see be worth the 100% to 200% cost difference?
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Is the difference worth it ? Man that's a good question. It all depends on your tax bracket or throw around money . My lil Nissan rogue runs like a top and cost 25k , a Lexus SUV is at least twice the price ..... If it's worth it depends on the person , and that person's bank account 
Top Teir , and near top Teir scopes are incredible. But at the end of the day it is a tool . If it allows you to see the target and crosshair clearly , aim precisely, and hole zero and track reliable.....Then it's a winner . Real HD and ED lenses cost a lot of money to manufacture. Only way to get them is pay out the Boo-Boo . Or do like I often do , buy used .
If your scope , or anyone's makes you happy ....Then that's all that matters
Top Teir , and near top Teir scopes are incredible. But at the end of the day it is a tool . If it allows you to see the target and crosshair clearly , aim precisely, and hole zero and track reliable.....Then it's a winner . Real HD and ED lenses cost a lot of money to manufacture. Only way to get them is pay out the Boo-Boo . Or do like I often do , buy used .
If your scope , or anyone's makes you happy ....Then that's all that matters
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Very interesting topic and i put 100% faith in Mr Rhea's opinions and judgement. My question is how much scope do you really need to shoot out to a little over 100yrds accurately. Would a 1000 dollar scope give a shooter a better group than a 500 dollar scope at those distances.
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Joe,
I was just checking out the Bushnell Forge 4-30 x 50 and the Parallax adjustment minimum is only 25 yds. With an air gun this might be an issue. So, how bad is the focus say at 15 yds.?
I was just checking out the Bushnell Forge 4-30 x 50 and the Parallax adjustment minimum is only 25 yds. With an air gun this might be an issue. So, how bad is the focus say at 15 yds.?
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You make the best point of all. I challenge anyone to make a shot with their hyper expensive scope, which they can't also make with a $300 scope. At no more than say, 120 yds.
If we were talking distances over say 700 yds, then I would not feel the same at all.
I'll buy a Nightforce when I am a sniper in the apocalypse, with my life depending on a scope, LOL.
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+1 With Heavy Impact ...The focus is plenty sharp at 15 yards . Just back off maximum power a tiny bit and it's focused great . .....Just my 2c ,Unless guys are shooting an indoor 10m leaugue or Field Target or in the basement I've never seen the " MUST HAVE " for a 10 yard min focus .
As long as all scope will focus to 25 yards I never give it a thought .
As long as all scope will focus to 25 yards I never give it a thought .
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Thank you SO much James, and Joe ! This needs to be taught to airgunners. I can not tell you how many buds that have shot one of my airguns all day. and never realized it on;y focused down to twenty five yards. There is a lot of airgunners who are missing out on a lot of good scopes, just because they don't say 10 yds on the focus/parallax ring.
Robert Beeman started that 10 yd crap.
Robert Beeman started that 10 yd crap.
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