Dual/External Regulator & Adjusting Reg Pressure

[elbeau]

After completing a bottle mod with an additional external regulator on a .25 Air Venturi Avenger, could the bottle then be removed without purging all the air from it? I understand that the high-pressure air left in the gun would still need to be bled out the typical way, but I'd like to conserve what bottle air I could.
Do external regulators typically have a cutoff valve or would that need to be added in-line between the additional valve & the airgun itself? I was reading some online resources, but just couldn't find anything clear, so I was hoping for some guidance.

Thanks!

 

[dizzums]

i guess depends on the design and your strategy ... my bottle has a conventional cutoff/bleed valve setup, the reg is plumbed with fosters on both ends so is removable and has its own bleeder .. i added the din adapter (the gold thingy) just to make it more durable, but it had a little flimsy end on it with a foster that it came with ..

 

[Reidy]

If you have a paintball type regulator, you can back the regulator of a little at the adapter so that the valve in it closes. Then fire off a few dry shots to drain the air in the block / plenum. You should now be able to unscrew the bottle with the regulator still attached and holding air.

Don't back the reg off too far, 1'ish turn should do it initially. If you force it all the way off it will still seal but you'll also blow the outer reg seal when it comes out of the sealing bore.

 

[elbeau]

That's along the lines of what I was thinking/hoping, Reidy, but wasn't thinking of the 2nd half of your reply.

 

[elbeau]

What I'd like to do is:
Cut off the air pressure from the bottle to the gun → bleed the air out of the gun only → safely lower the gun's pressure regulator.
Basically, I'd like to be able safely lower the gun's pressure regulator to tune the rifle without losing all the air in the bottle. I don't mind losing the lil' bit in the gun itself.
Hope I did a better job explaining this time. I had seen some video of a higher-end gun where they were taking the bottle on & off to adjust the gun's pressure regulator, but perhaps that isn't needed.

 

[revenger]

Did you ever figure out a good solution for this? I am wanting to do the same thing.

 

[elbeau]

Did you ever figure out a good solution for this? I am wanting to do the same thing.

I ordered a paintball ASA, making sure it was rated for high enough pressure (they'll be installed between the gun and the regulator).
I bought 2- 1 sealed just fine but the valve isn't closing on the other one. I'm going to reach out to the seller to see if they have any tips. They seem pretty simple; not sure what's wrong.

 

[revenger]

Did you use the AE Swede dual regulator set up?

 

[EmptyTin_Tim]

Elbeau, where did you find an ASA cutoff that is rated to 4500 psi? All I found were much lower for CO2 pressures. I too am planning on using the AE Swede dual reg adapter on my Avenger and was really hoping an inline cutoff would work exactly like you're hoping for. I do not want to refill a bottle as I am hand pumping.

It'd be awesome if it worked, just would have to top it off from whatever was lost in the plenum etc. Cut off air from bottle, dry fire a few times and bleed the gun screw to make sure all gone, adjust reg, turn cutoff back on, back in business.

Only thing is the dual reg adapter and 2nd reg sticks the bottle out kinda far for my liking, I chose a 350CC bottle to keep that forward weight down without losing the volume. 13 inches long bottle+reg, but 2x the air as stock since I've got extended plenum too. In line cutoff would add another inch or so I'd guess.

Anyway, I'm very interested like Revenger is.

 

[EmptyTin_Tim]

If you have a paintball type regulator, you can back the regulator of a little at the adapter so that the valve in it closes. Then fire off a few dry shots to drain the air in the block / plenum. You should now be able to unscrew the bottle with the regulator still attached and holding air.

Don't back the reg off too far, 1'ish turn should do it initially. If you force it all the way off it will still seal but you'll also blow the outer reg seal when it comes out of the sealing bore.

Okay guys I have installed AE Swede dual reg adapter now with that aluminum 350cc bottle and a Chinese reg set at 2,800 psi. When I followed Reidy's advice, it worked fine. I unscrewed the reg out of the Swede adapter half a turn and then shot out the air (5-6 shots) that was left in the block. Then I unscrewed the bottle the rest of the way. It was kinda weird because it didn't hiss or make a leak noise as I twisted it, so I'm thinking the pin on the adapter is the perfect length to open up the bottle when tight and it lets off on less than 1 turn of the bottle reg.

My question is, when I adjusted my stock regulator all the way closed after purging, then screwed the bottle back on, why did no air go through? I figured I closed it off all the way so I turn the reg screw a tiny bit but it didn't move so I checked the stock air gauge. It was showing real low air on the stock air pressure (which just shows what the 2nd reg is set to).

If that reg is set to 2,800 psi, why did it stay super low (1,000 psi)? I tried turning up the stock reg screw more but obviously it didn't go higher than the 2nd reg pressure. It also took a while for it to get up to that low pressure, too. Wasn't very fast to refill the plenum.

Any ideas? I tried pumping up the bottle a bit more but that was just me testing something out. It was already at 4,000 psi. Just pumped a few to make it 4.1k but gauge didn't change.

 

[Reidy]

Okay guys I have installed AE Swede dual reg adapter now with that aluminum 350cc bottle and a Chinese reg set at 2,800 psi. When I followed Reidy's advice, it worked fine. I unscrewed the reg out of the Swede adapter half a turn and then shot out the air (5-6 shots) that was left in the block. Then I unscrewed the bottle the rest of the way. It was kinda weird because it didn't hiss or make a leak noise as I twisted it, so I'm thinking the pin on the adapter is the perfect length to open up the bottle when tight and it lets off on less than 1 turn of the bottle reg.

My question is, when I adjusted my stock regulator all the way closed after purging, then screwed the bottle back on, why did no air go through? I figured I closed it off all the way so I turn the reg screw a tiny bit but it didn't move so I checked the stock air gauge. It was showing real low air on the stock air pressure (which just shows what the 2nd reg is set to).

If that reg is set to 2,800 psi, why did it stay super low (1,000 psi)? I tried turning up the stock reg screw more but obviously it didn't go higher than the 2nd reg pressure. It also took a while for it to get up to that low pressure, too. Wasn't very fast to refill the plenum.

Any ideas? I tried pumping up the bottle a bit more but that was just me testing something out. It was already at 4,000 psi. Just pumped a few to make it 4.1k but gauge didn't change.

I wonder if there was enough side play in the reg seal pin to allow it to be forced down the side of the pin in the adapter with it having pressure behind it?? This SHOULD not happen, but that doesn't mean it couldn't.

Sorry for the late reply, I was only notified of this reply just now.

 

[EmptyTin_Tim]

You're fine, don't worry about the reply time!

That's a good guess, it looked to me to be dead center, but I guess the pin shifting is possible too. It's not a Ninja reg but a $35 Chinese one. However after talking with nervoustrig we decided that the paintball reg pin may be too short / the Swede adapter pin isn't long enough. Gun wouldn't degas completely even with the whole plenum cap off!

I took it apart and put in a shorter seal on the pin which seemed to have helped. Not sure if it is 100% yet but I've read that having 2 regs affects plenum refill time. It refills after each shot now instead of waiting overnight to refill! Not super worried as the gun has maybe 300 pellets through it so far and the stock reg isn't broken in yet however I did sand the stock reg delrin flat while I had the gun degassed!

Thanks for the suggestion on being able to unscrew the bottle. I think with it filled to 4k I really have to twist tight on the bottle after removing it. (haven't tried it yet...) When I tested screwing it on at only 1k bottle pressure and then degassed it was able to rotate and screw in more at 0 psi. But if this works, it's gonna save me so much pumping!

https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/2nd-reg-air-slow-low-psi.1281484/