Does a springer cut it?

Welp, I might as well weigh in. Earlier today, while watching the airgun detectives review of the Benji 392, I noticed he was using a red dot sight w/ it. I have a Benji 392 and liked the concept; so I took the Pinty red/green dot sight off my Daisy 408, then put a set of Crosman 459MT 2-Pc Intermounts, 3/8 Dovetails on the 392 and then (since the Pinty has a Picatinny rail mount) put a picatinny to dovetail mount on the intermounts & then the Pinty to it. Took a couple minutes.

7 pellets (Crosman 14.3 domes) later using 3 easy pumps for each shot, I was sighted in at 10 yards. 1st 5 shot group was a 0.30 hole. Now granted, that's only 10 yards; but, tomorrow I'm going to hunt some hosps w/ it. The green dot on the Pinty is really tiny. 1 MOA, maybe 2 MOA at most. It will turn the head of a hosp into a HUGE target to shoot at.
 
Springers only suck when you can't hunt, and can't shoot!

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I think that most people like the adjustable power and multi-shot capabilities of the PCP. It's also difficult to beat how quiet you can make one of these guns. Some springers will do the job just fine though and there is nothing wrong with a decent springer it will just do the job a bit slower which usually makes little difference.

PCPs, for the most part, are also much easier to shoot accurately, for most people, than springers and accuracy is everything when pesting.


 
Someone call Steve Wilcos, we got ourselves another springer argument.

Sick rigs Thumper! Those wood stocks look spiffy as hell compared to the black hole of chunky nylon and steel PCPs that is my air rifle cabinet. 

Honestly if I had to pick one air rifle to spend a couple nights in the woods with I'd walk past my absurdly powerful, suppressed, mag fed, accurate & expensive PCPs and grab my beat up Gamo like the gent with the FT-PCP and the chippy.

Can see 3 valid arguments against springers: barrel movement affecting accuracy, follow up shots and the pre-coil.


There's plenty of interlocks that are / could be applied for a true & repeatable lock-up. Only hurdle is cost and that the tighter the fit the more often you'll have to clean it. Or just get an underlever. 


The speed issue is reasonable but when I was a lil fella with my rusty, trusty Gamo I'd just keep a pellet between my index and middle finger tips on support hand when taking a shot, back when I ran it all the time I was pretty quick. If you're going to outshoot your rifles tank and you're hiking you'll get wayyy more trigger time on a springer overall though.

On the pre-coil point...


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The face you make when your springer hits you with those negative waves..


This is why I moved to PCP's because average springers around the 2000's vibrated more than luggage coming off the Lolita Express. Granted mine stood up like a champ to close to 20 years of abuse and as long as I hold it exactly the same and let it do it's lil jig while firing it's dead on. The shakedown is hell on scopes though, the group you take to prove your zero ruins it lol (tried scope stops, Gamo's crummy steel was too soft to clamp hard enough without mauling up dovetails). I competed in a youth 3-position .22 league with open sights on Saturdays and as a guest Sundays in adult open .22 rifle club, both at 50', me and my bud with single-shot, peep-sight Izshmash CM-2's always traded 1st/2nd place by a point or two against around 20 adults with scopes on souped up 10-22's. They didn't train like we did so they didn't win like we did, equip is a desert while skill's steak. (Might as well put your spotting scope right on the gun if you're wondering if you even hit the target immediately after every shot) Wasn't an issue running irons especially thinking about how many times I've had clear shots on game beyond 50 yards in the woods, not much. Just look up how to hold it and you'll be fine with the vibes, most of the time.. Again I spend all my $ on PCPs and the village of other equipment that rears them, so no trigger time on a true precision slinky yet, seems like they handle scopes better but it's probably still an issue after enough rounds with how horribly bad my Gamo & friends Crossmans / Beemans were with em.



My PCPs smoke my Gamo, any range any hold any position BUT again, never owned a precision springer so my opinion isn't worth squat when one Weihrauch is 10x what I payed for the Gamo 1000 lol. Have done plenty of squirrel, rat, crow, pidgin, even bee hunting with a low-end springer and was happy, kinda says a lot that a chap one did so much for so long. Seeing Thumpers rig & reminiscing actually has me kinda craving one now. They're durable, dependable, hit hard enough for .177/.22 game and reach as far as you can see in the hardwoods I live around. Plus aesthetically they have cleaner lines and don't look like some 1950's Buck-Rodgers fever dream of gauges, wood grain and steel tubing in wood stocks like PCPs do. 


Springers are to PCPs as Subaru is to Lamborghini. One is durable, rejects expensive parts like a mismatched kidney but works like a champ for years with the basics. The other you'll buy and then realize you haven't even bought half the stuff you'll need to use it to it's full potential, you'll almost enjoy tuning it as much as using it or conversely you pay out the nose for repairs, but for those few minutes while there's still something in the tank it's an absolute monster and even the most hard core alterboy in the church of the spring has to watch the 1000 yard Airforce Texan shots on youtube in awe before they slip back into commenting on the hernia homeboy prolly got hauling all his gear out there hahaha

.
All comes down to the individual rifle and shooter like Thump said. 

Felt like I'd dip a toe into a topic not too controversial for my 1st post here. Any Ideas on high end preferably US made springer companies from anyone who made it this far? I just started finding more and more US PCP manufacturers lately, gotta be a springer or two made in Merica right?
 
Springers only suck when you can't hunt, and can't shoot!

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Agreed.



A few areas I can concede on are



1. Noise level. Definitely springers loose here, but I have plenty that are backyard friendly. 

2. Somewhat harsh on scopes. I've ruined a few scopes and now have ones that have been holding up. To be fair, my sig asp20 ruined a scope after more than 6,000 rounds and Vortex told me I crushed the scope over tightening it. Never knew I deformed the tube...functioned fine until it didnt.



3. Follow up shots. In all my hunting and pesting I have only had a few instances where a follow up shot was indicated, and even then the game would have expired. I hit them hard enough that they were mostly planted for a follow up, and I gave one squirrel 3 follow up shots with the asp. It takes a decent amount of time to perform a follow up if one was needed rapidly. I say if, because I am EXTREMELY anal about taking only shots I'm convinced will do the job. That being said, I understand it's a bit of an art more so than science and sometimes things happen. I keep my distances that I'll permit myself to shoot where I can say I am confident there will be no suffering. In the past that limited me to around 25 yards, now I'll easily go to 50.
 
Someone call Steve Wilcos, we got ourselves another springer argument.

Sick rigs Thumper! Those wood stocks look spiffy as hell compared to the black hole of chunky nylon and steel PCPs that is my air rifle cabinet. 

Honestly if I had to pick one air rifle to spend a couple nights in the woods with I'd walk past my absurdly powerful, suppressed, mag fed, accurate & expensive PCPs and grab my beat up Gamo like the gent with the FT-PCP and the chippy.

Can see 3 valid arguments against springers: barrel movement affecting accuracy, follow up shots and the pre-coil.


There's plenty of interlocks that are / could be applied for a true & repeatable lock-up. Only hurdle is cost and that the tighter the fit the more often you'll have to clean it. Or just get an underlever. 


The speed issue is reasonable but when I was a lil fella with my rusty, trusty Gamo I'd just keep a pellet between my index and middle finger tips on support hand when taking a shot, back when I ran it all the time I was pretty quick. If you're going to outshoot your rifles tank and you're hiking you'll get wayyy more trigger time on a springer overall though.

On the pre-coil point...


a765106e575bb8807328407f4e7edb72.jpg

The face you make when your springer hits you with those negative waves..


This is why I moved to PCP's because average springers around the 2000's vibrated more than luggage coming off the Lolita Express. Granted mine stood up like a champ to close to 20 years of abuse and as long as I hold it exactly the same and let it do it's lil jig while firing it's dead on. The shakedown is hell on scopes though, the group you take to prove your zero ruins it lol (tried scope stops, Gamo's crummy steel was too soft to clamp hard enough without mauling up dovetails). I competed in a youth 3-position .22 league with open sights on Saturdays and as a guest Sundays in adult open .22 rifle club, both at 50', me and my bud with single-shot, peep-sight Izshmash CM-2's always traded 1st/2nd place by a point or two against around 20 adults with scopes on souped up 10-22's. They didn't train like we did so they didn't win like we did, equip is a desert while skill's steak. (Might as well put your spotting scope right on the gun if you're wondering if you even hit the target immediately after every shot) Wasn't an issue running irons especially thinking about how many times I've had clear shots on game beyond 50 yards in the woods, not much. Just look up how to hold it and you'll be fine with the vibes, most of the time.. Again I spend all my $ on PCPs and the village of other equipment that rears them, so no trigger time on a true precision slinky yet, seems like they handle scopes better but it's probably still an issue after enough rounds with how horribly bad my Gamo & friends Crossmans / Beemans were with em.



My PCPs smoke my Gamo, any range any hold any position BUT again, never owned a precision springer so my opinion isn't worth squat when one Weihrauch is 10x what I payed for the Gamo 1000 lol. Have done plenty of squirrel, rat, crow, pidgin, even bee hunting with a low-end springer and was happy, kinda says a lot that a chap one did so much for so long. Seeing Thumpers rig & reminiscing actually has me kinda craving one now. They're durable, dependable, hit hard enough for .177/.22 game and reach as far as you can see in the hardwoods I live around. Plus aesthetically they have cleaner lines and don't look like some 1950's Buck-Rodgers fever dream of gauges, wood grain and steel tubing in wood stocks like PCPs do. 


Springers are to PCPs as Subaru is to Lamborghini. One is durable, rejects expensive parts like a mismatched kidney but works like a champ for years with the basics. The other you'll buy and then realize you haven't even bought half the stuff you'll need to use it to it's full potential, you'll almost enjoy tuning it as much as using it or conversely you pay out the nose for repairs, but for those few minutes while there's still something in the tank it's an absolute monster and even the most hard core alterboy in the church of the spring has to watch the 1000 yard Airforce Texan shots on youtube in awe before they slip back into commenting on the hernia homeboy prolly got hauling all his gear out there hahaha

.
All comes down to the individual rifle and shooter like Thump said. 

Felt like I'd dip a toe into a topic not too controversial for my 1st post here. Any Ideas on high end preferably US made springer companies from anyone who made it this far? I just started finding more and more US PCP manufacturers lately, gotta be a springer or two made in Merica right?

Very well thought out post. Glad to have you on the forum. Welcome!
 
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Felt like I'd dip a toe into a topic not too controversial for my 1st post here. Any Ideas on high end preferably US made springer companies from anyone who made it this far? I just started finding more and more US PCP manufacturers lately, gotta be a springer or two made in Merica right?

Welcome to the forum, and great first post!!



The only American made springer I have experience with I absolutely LOVE but can not recommend because they stopped making it...... My sig asp20 is a laser and hits hard (slightly over 21ftlbs about 10 feet from the muzzle).
 
Nice shooting. You guys have some gorgeous guns. I’m envious. I’ve only been in this 2 1/2 years and the older guns seem to have the desirable stocks. As a woodworker can’t help but to notice. I’ve done a lot of drooling checking out some of your guns. You probably owe me an I-pad from shorting out.

40 yds. is my max. distance of a shot on my property. I have 2 targets ranges again 40 yds. In winter I put targets on lake, endless, so a springer works for me. Shooting 1000 yds. Would only piss off my neighbours across lake. I have 3 HW’s on order now to finish my .25’s. I’ll probably die will a springer in my hands.
If there’s a problem Browning 12 gauge and Remington 30-06 are not far away.
Crow 
 
Longfellow imagine that coming at you, while taking a leasure swim, wow. How big is that monster? I guess a well placed .177??? or a cannon? Never heard of Big Thicket. I do have a wallet, 3 belts and boots of gator. Love em.

Again When I die, I wanna die like my Grandfather, in his sleep.

Not screeming like the 5 passengers in his car. Crow

Here's a couple of links to get you acquainted w/ the Thicket.

Big Thicket

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Thicket

https://www.nps.gov/bith/index.htm

This little feller (8 feet long) was watching us fish for a half an hour; just hanging out. I left him alone.

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a good springer is fine for about 40 'feet' lol ... a decent underlever might be some middle ground, although i never went there and the same money will get a real permissable pcp .. when its serious, quit wasting time on that glorified red rider spring gun ...

LMAO! The term Neophyte defined.

I would Love to meet up and demonstrate via a simple shooting competition what my "Red Ryder"-esque Walther LGU is capable of at... let's make it 40 YARDS.

As previously stated,Ya might wanna leave yer wallet at home.

Mike