Do you start with a swan or turn an ugly duckling and turn it into a swan

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Blackpaw

Blackpaw

Member
Apr 23, 2020
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Idaho, United States
Okay, I remember Steve of AEAC say that one thing that draws people to airguns is they love to tinkers, especially PCPs.

Speaking of tinkering, I see many people who have very high end / tier one guns and in the same breath, then take lower end guns that well...go through an evolution aka turning an ugly duckling into a swan. These people you can tell thrive on it.

From the mods I see people put into cash into some lower and mid tier platforms get them to shot that easily would get them a top tier rifle, which might shoot as well as they want the lower tier too. Thus I think some people by nature love turning the ugly duckling into a golden swan.

Is this you and if so, why do you do it?
 
Blackpaw,

Reminds me of a video I once saw where a guy, well known for his Yong Heng videos, was showing his airgun collection. He'd spent well over a thousand dollars, and countless man-hours modifying a standard CO2 pellet gun into a high performing PCP but, was now questioning if he'd been better off just saving the money and buying a top tier PCP. For me, the ugly ducklings and swans, in my collection, stay as they are. Each one, in it's own way, has value to me for exactly what it is. Think you'll get many opinions on this and I don't see any as being wrong.

WM






 
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Blackpaw,

I bought my "ugly ducklings" when it was all I could afford and thought they were "swans," at the time. For example, my $300 Umarex Gauntlet was a "swan," of the first order, to me, until I got my Wildcat. The Gauntlet still holds a place of honor, as my first PCP, and I still enjoy shooting and caring for it. I've done some minor, inexpensive mods on it but never would consider the high price mods. I feel the same way about all my collection, enjoy each one for what it is.

WM 
 
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More often than not, I feel you could spend more on a low/mid teir gun, and have it not ever approach the performance of a top tier model.... But some things that are very small end up making a huge difference. Like the trigger, for one.

To answer the question, I like both. It's a challenge to work with flawed objects to try and refine and personalize them. I find all of those things enjoyable. It's also fulfilling as well, and something you can take pride in. Assuming you really put yourself into your work.... 

So, I like both. When some serious engineering and R&D goes into an airgun, you're not just paying for the gun. You're paying for the years of experience... and the massive amount of work between all of the team members and collaborators that eventually culminated in the (hopefully) refined piece you purchase. When all of that goes smoothly, the end product ought to be exceptional. The most expensive rifle I have feels exactly so, and there's no way I can ever get a cheaper gun to match it unless I got a CNC machine and spent a trully insane amount of hours testing, designing, and creating something that, at best, would probably match my purchase.
 
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I spend too much time and money on low end air rifles. It is more satisfying to me to build a one of a kind than have an off the shelf top tier laser. Here is my avenger that a carved a laminate blank from mostly hand tools. Did internal work and other cosmetic mods like replacing the shroud with carbon fiber and designing internal baffles and stripper. It is a 22 that is capable of 60fpe and is actually very very accurate out to 100.
IMG_0330.1632543735.jpg

 
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I would have to say I have changed an ugly duckling into a swan a few times. But then in the same breath I have purchased several high end guns as well.

Spent that $1000 you were talking about modding a 2240 into a high power high shot count PCP pistol but always had my eye on an HW44 so finally bought one. These guns both perform about the same, although the 2240 gets way more shots per charge it is also bulkier, and I am pleased to have them both at this moment in time.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/the-true-cost-of-my-60-crosman-2240/?referrer=1

Did the same with a 2250 rifle, modded it for many years, and eventually purchased an Impact. Once again I am more than pleased to have both although the Frankenstein 2250 Rat Gun could never compete with the Impact in anything but lower power and under about 60-70 yard ranges.

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/crosman-rat-gun-gets-another-mod/?referrer=1
 
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From customizing model cars when I was a kid, to later, real cars, motorcycle and guns...now air guns.

The joy is to make it Mine.The fit is as important as the accuracy.

I do not spend the time and money on anything that does Not have the potential to become a Swan

One other thing that I think too many may forget, you do not need to spend much money on an air gun to get it to shoot under a 1/2" at under 35yards....
 
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 nothing better than taking an underdog and making it a winner ... all my life in EVERY sport and hobby ive watched companies and fanboys price everything out of the average guys reach .. want to compete .. better have 50k disposable income .. just to start .. its pathetic and rule makers shouldnt tolerate it imo .. so you can keep the ignorant competition level stuff and i'll enjoy the tinkering side ...
 
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My first three adult air guns were a Gamo, a P-rod & a used Classic Leshiy. 

Gamo was/is horrible. 

P-rod was fine except for the carbine stock. Quickly realized upgrades were a deep rabbit hole with not great resale. Didn't spend any money on it.

Classic Leshiy was in rough shape but I was too inexperienced to realize it at the time.

So, of course, I went out & bought another broken Leshiy (airgun # 4) & then spent way too much time getting both to work. Didn't spend too much money but way too much time.

With hindsight, my first air rifle should have been an HW30. 

First PCP should have been a Classic Leshiy. NEW, not used.

Cliffs version: even my swans were ugly ducklings.
 
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For some people working on projects is half the fun for them.

For others, they'd rather be doing other things, they would prefer to pick up the rifle and go shooting and if possible never messing with anything on it.

The problem is no matter how much you spend nothing is perfect or stays perfectly tuned!

I often see $2000+ rifles customized with another $2000 put into them.
 
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I do it to mock the 'performance at any price' mentality that permeates competitions of all kinds, and remind such mentalities that even a loose nut behind the trigger can be a serious threat wielding the most improbable of equipment.

180 ROT.1632626497.JPG


TW 160 trophies.1632626584.JPG


Tau 7 plaque.1632626654.JPG


Snake Tau LS.1632626799.JPG


AR Nats trophy.1632626704.JPG


187 Titles.1632626736.jpg


All the titles and records pictured above were captured with guns that sold brand new for less than $500... not each, the TOTAL price for all five of the guns pictured above. I call that a LOT of bang for the bucks!


 
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Ron I was going to read to the end and if you didn't post mention some forum member who has used lower cost airgun modded .with good effect.

"ugly duckling" taken as less costly (really like the purple rig with s stock sensible above) I have a very budget QB78 HPA Hunter FT rig that will apply a pellet directly to target. Factory barrel with a centered machined crown and leade for JSB 10.3 , cut tube for ninja bottle adapter and that's it (well some bondo for fit & finish). Consistently, for years now, if I miss a target "I" missed the shot.

John
 
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I guess I'm just one of the tinkerers then. I just like to tinker with anything I own. 

I'm in the process of adding iron sights to my fusion 2, which didn't come with iron sights. No reason to really add them except I like to use iron sights sometimes.

I also need to do a few mods to the wife's Crosman 1077. The trigger pull is too strong and long for her to pull without jerking the rifle. Even I have trouble with it. Then theres the cheek riser I'm building for my wife since the scope I ordered for the 1077 sits so high, the stock works more of a chin rest.

I'm also thinking about getting a PCP mod for the 1077 for when it gets colder out. And of course, me being an engineer, I want to do a similar mod for my fusion 2. 
 
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I guess Umarex now does with their Gauntlets what we started doing years ago to QBs and Crosman's, and then some, huh John? Here's my current QB HPA rifle wearing a custom stock I had built to my specs for a Crosman 160 way back in the seventies. This rig produced a most memorable FT win against two other multiple State and National Champs using highest state-of-the-art regulated PCPs. Though not quite as accurate at 50 yards as my RAW TM1000, it's only 1/10 MOA behind it! 

T A QB RS.1632719530.JPG





 
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Being a long time fan of Myth Busters I am not one interested in polishing a turd, even if it can be done. I've been down that road and at the end of it all you have is a really shiny turd, but it still looks and smells like a turd.

Give me something with a solid foundation and a well thought out design. I don't mind paying for it as long as it delivers. I'm capable of the little things to make it that much better.
 
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