Do we trust these no-name filters?

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Franklink

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Sep 3, 2017
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First off, I'm a little concerned about my oil/water separators after seeing these two recent posts in as many weeks. (if you're squeamish, careful on the second link, second page of it has some pretty graphic pics, er visit/stitches/etc). 

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/catastrophic-failure-of-cheap-water-seperator/?referrer=1

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/protective-blast-cage/page/2/?referrer=1

So, I've been using similar "filters" on the high pressure side of my Shoebox compressor since the end of 2018. I just tallied up my log sheet and I'm just shy of 71 hours. Lots and lots and lots of fills on a little tampon filter like the blue one responsible for the stitches in the thigh in the link above. And each fill for the filter is a 0-4200psi endeavor, not just 3000-4200 like the SCBA sees. A few months ago I bought a second compressor, with concerns of work hardening with all those 0-4200 cycles in the one that's been in use for 3 years now. But I've yet to pressurize the second one. Both were bought from either Ebay or Amazon for the something like $20 from a no-name company that is probably not even still around. I'd sure have a hard time even finding the purchase info, much less who I bought them from. So accountability is likely not something these companies are concerned with, as they can just dissolve back into the internet underworld of alibaba/amazon/ebay. 

So here are the two.

sizes.1637043931.jpg


And the threads...

threads.1637043955.jpg


I'm measuring the wall thickness of the one that has been in use at 0.245 inches, and the wall thickness of the "new" one at 0.230 inches. The older ones cap has more threads than the newer one dose, but they appear to have the same thread pattern. 

I usually fill it up with the foam discs and then put the tampon in the end, like this. My thought has been to create a tortuous path for the air to flow through, allowing more surface area of the filter media to strip the air of the moisture ( convoluted air passageways through the foam), I've liked this method as I am not recharging silica beads, introducing silica dust/particulate to the system, nor am I buying/maintaining a supply of molecular sieve. 

foam.1637044174.jpg


After I've topped off my tanks, without fail, I can squeeze a drop of water out of the tampon, the first two foam discs are slightly moist to the touch, and the rest of the foam discs are bone dry. And the tampon portion will also have a bit of discoloration if I overlubed the felts on the compressor pistons with silicone oil. The blow out on the bottom of the tank on the first stage compressor always has a decent amount of water, a couple mls would be my guess. 

Some will argue that isn't sufficient, but I've been unable to find any moisture in any of my tanks or guns with this method. I live in AZ and don't fill during the rare times that it is humid. I'm not wanting a debate about the necessity of silica gel or molecular sieve or etc, etc etc. I am however, wondering if I've gotten really lucky to not have had an accident yet. 

As of right now, I'm thinking of retiring the gold filter that I've been using, and never putting the "new" one into service. On the one hand the little filter in use has been pressurized so many times now that surely it would have gone boom if it was going to, but on the other hand, that whole work hardening thing, with all of those cycles from 0-4200, may have weakened it to the point that it could go boom any time. The new one, with fewer threads, and thinner walls, doesn't make me even want to try it out. And so, I've ordered a similar small water/oil catcher from pyramyd air and will examine it to see how I feel about using it. 

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-compact-inline-filter?a=9038

Quite likely that PA's is straight from China too, but I'm hoping PA realizes that blowing off an airgunner's hand or even having a failure that causes an ER visit and stitches is going to really hurt their reputation in the airgunning community. With that assumption, I'm trying to make myself feel better about this with the thought that PA maybe has a little more involvement in overseeing that the one they sell is safe..ish. 

I understand the risk of being around HPA is ultimately our own personal responsibility, and that's why I'm digging around to see if I can reduce the risk of injury (even if just a little.) 

Am I the only one crazy enough to be using these little Chinese grenades?


 
I would use this moment to consider getting something higher quality from a known vendor like Nuvairhttps://www.nuvair.com/pb-pfilter.html

Or keep using what you have, which already shows differences in tolerances, threading m, and thickness.

What you have may work just fine for a lifetime. Here’s hoping it is measured in decades not minutes :)

ER trip, loss of bodily function or senses, to me just isnt worth the gamble for quality equipment. At the end of the day it is your money and I have no right to tell you how to spend it :)
 
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Franklink, I agree with you, these recent accident reports are a bit disconcerting to me too. I seem to recall there have been reports of a few other close calls in the forums in the last year or so. I think these type of posts rightfully make us question the engineering and quality control of our fill gear. I don’t have a compressor, but I do have an scba and fill station. I believe my fill station is reasonably high quality, mostly Nuvair fittings but I do wonder about the life expectancy of the fill station components, particularly the microbore hose. After seeing these accident threads I want to devise some sort of tether on my hose.


As far as your filter goes, I think LMNOP is on the right track in suggesting you look at different, albeit more expensive filters and finding one that is truly better quality could give you peace of mind. The $299 Nuvair or the $25 Air Venturi could be great filters, or both could be a rebranded chinese units with no better pedigree than the one you are using now, a phone call to Nuvair or AoA could ferret that out. The other side to this equation is being bantered in the other threads, such as dealing with protective cages or the like - I am hopeful some good simple ideas arise from these discussions, and that the industry takes this on too.




 
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When I look at these filters, I see a pressure vessel with the second or third largest source of stored energy that an airgunner would be around. The cheap options are sold to a rather small market (pcp airgunners), and are unlikely to have been proof tested. In fact I have serious doubts even that any samples were proof tested or failure tested. There are probably little to no standards for design or construction of these filters.

The pricier breathing air quality filters are more likely to have some standards and to have had the design tested at some point since they have the wider market of scuba and firefighter scba.

I think subconsciously we naturally want to put HPA stuff right next to shop air or standard industrial products in our head, but it's really on a whole other level for risk and design requirements. Low pressures and steel are both very forgiving. If you are talking about a 140psi steel air tank, or a steel jackstand to hold a car up, its pretty hard to mess those up. 4500psi and aluminum on the other hand...
 
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@lmnop, thanks for the link to the Nuvair filter. I've seen that same? filter on a couple airgun retailers websites but wasn't aware of Nuvair. It looks to be a bit less expensive in the link you provided. Perhaps just marketing, but I get a better feeling about that filter, and maybe just because they actually have a website. 

@aimright, YES, these last couple of failures of HPA components has made me be a bit more skittish around my pressurized stuff. None of my fill stations or tanks or even the Shoebox compressor give the "sketchy" impression, but those dang no-name filters give me a bad feeling. Too many questions marks for me with them. 

Pyramyd Air small filter should be here in a day or two. I'll report back on how that one measures up to the no-names. I'm hoping it seems a bit more safe, but if it doesn't, I'll likely bite the bullet and purchase the Nuvair. 


 
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I have been thinking about this a little. I thought I would put my thought out there and see what others think. I have looked around the internet looking at "Blast Cages" I wonder if a simple fix would just be a electromechanical pressure switch. For my use I would set it for 300 bar. Then every time using my compressor I would just put distance between me and the fill components. Working around industrial compressors I have heard components fail behind an inclosure. Then just shut ff power and wait for the air to bleed or if it was safe shut a valve. When I bought my Alkin I never considered the "Auto" version thinking about safety. I just knew I wouldn't need the auto drain timer. If I was doing it today I may have paid for the auto version.



Sparky 
 
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@oldsparky, I think the pressure switch is a good idea. The Shoebox F10 compressor that I use has an adjustable pressure switch for the pump to turn off once it hits a certain pressure. It is quite reliable. I don't sit around while mine is filling, but do like to check on it periodically. I just do quick checks to make sure it's still increasing in pressure and that I haven't sprung leak somewhere. I think the less time we spend in the general vicinity of pressurized equipment, the lower the odds of it going boom while we are right there. BUT we still have to shut the valve on the tank and be around the pressurized equipment, even if for short intervals. 

There is inherent risk, but that can be applied to just about anything in life. If we were to try to work out the chance of being injured by our PCP equipment, I think it'd be pretty low. Even without extrapolation for all the guys filling guns and tanks, and just looking at ourselves, how many times have I personally filled a PCP or one of my tanks, with no accident or equipment failure? Lots. 

I started this topic with the concern of dodgy and dubiously pedigreed equipment being a potential for injury, as that seems to be the common denominator in the recent stories of fitting/filter failures. I trust my Stik Boy fill station, and my fill station from Brancato, heck, I even trust the Ninja fill station on the small SCUBA as it's just a solid block of aluminum. I trust my tanks. I trust the Shoebox. I trust all the microbore hoses on all of the above. BUT, the small "tampon" oil/water separator/filters I was using have never given me the warm fuzzies, and I don't think I'll continue to use them. 
 
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Received the new one from PA (the silver one) and did some comparisons.

vs pa.1638334513.jpg


Nothing magnetic on either of them except for the small thread adaptor? the red arrow is pointing to. Don't know if non-magnetic is a good thing or a bad thing though. Not a metallurgist but I think some stainless is not magnetic. 

The first thing I noticed was that the silver one has a lot fewer threads holding that cap on, and the threads themselves aren't as pronounced. 

Wall thicknesses of the main body are very similar, with the new one being about 0.242 inches. What little I know about cylinder strength is that the smaller the diameter, the less thick the walls need to be for structural integrity. The new silver one from Pyramyd is smaller in diameter so the wall thickness doesn't worry me (much thicker than the walls on a PCP tube). 

The lockring that holds the small locking ball bearings is much less robust in the new PA one.

locking ring.1638334729.jpg
locking ring1.1638334729.jpg


They both have 6 ball bearings for holding onto the rim of the male foster. 

The following concerns me a bit too...

wall thickness.1638334775.jpg


wall thickness of the pressurized portion of the qd is thinner on the new PA filter. 

Between the wall thickness where the female qd is pressurized, and the fewer and less pronounced threads holding the cap on......I don't think I'm going to pressure test this new oil/water separator from Pyramyd Air. The close inspection of the PA filter made me feel much better about the no-name filter that has been in use for a couple of years, to the point that I topped everything off with it yesterday-without an ER visit or otherwise negative incident. 

I still think this filter is the weak link in my fill system and I've not ruled out the possibility of dropping the coin on the Nuvair filter linked above. 


 
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Franklink are you using a desiccant filter between the first stage compressor and your Shoebox? I owned a Shoebox Max and upgraded to a Shoebox F8 and used each one for a couple of years. It had a 25" coiled plastic hose from the output of the first stage compressor to the Wilkerson X06-02-000 desiccant filter that contained blue silica gel media. No moisture ever reached the output side of either Shoebox using this filter. The tiny output filter you're using is safe but you may not need one. A first stage compressor tank probably removes 80% of moisture by pressurization. The coiled line and a quality built silica bead desiccant filter on the input side of your Shoebox will remove any residual moisture to eliminate the need for an output filter.

Replacing the small output fiiter with a much larger volume Omega filter is a mismatch. A Shoebox fills slowly which results in much longer added runtime to pressurize the Omega. Eliminate moisture reaching the output side by filtering before air enters the Shoebox. Tom Kaye's Shoebox website did not recommend output side moisture removal He did advise the use of an input side filter as shown in the video below. The Wilkerson filter is on the output side of the first stage compressor to the Shoebox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39zkx8tmZ_M










 
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Update

I never put the thin walled brass colored filter into service.

The silver colored filter from Pyramyd (link in original post) was used, for about a year. After roughly a year the PA supplied filter stated getting VERY difficult to open after it had been used. After the second time that it was almost impossible to open, I concluded that it must be expanding/stretching to result in the locked endcap. That wide-eyed realization was met with the decision to retire it, and count my blessings that it didn't go boom.

I'm still using the original brass colored filter. Going on 6 or so years now. Work hardening still concerns me....
 
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I have two small and cheap and one "inexpensive" for the size and huge, chinese inline filters. One I bought simply because it had a bleed valve in it that was needed for my system. Said bleed valve screw, made of brass with very loose fitting threads, stripped the threads and exploded out of the fitting, slamming HARD into the palm of my hand when I was opening it. A $29 booby trap and I guess I am the booby. No problems with the other two other than one has two of the same defective bleed screws on it from the same company. I have since replaced all three with better designs. I am a LOT more nervous using these cheap filters than I was before this incident and plan on replacing all of them soon. My write up on the failure.

There is no pressure rating on the Nuvair page. You would think that would be up front and in bold letters.

I am considering replacing all my pressure vessels between the pump and the gun with stuff that is rated for at least 5800 PSI duty pressure, preferably 6500 PSI.
 
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Franklink said:
What are you going with instead?
Click to expand...
Not a clue......just started looking. What pressure is the Nuvair rated for?

For my Yong Heng I will want a "mechanical" water trap on the gun side of the compressor. It is so dry here I don't think I need any desiccant beads either before or after the compressor. Not sure what to use, if anything on my GX CS3 which does an amazing job of getting what little moisture there is in the air here taken care of.

This is what I was going to replace my huge Tuxing filter with, but sadly they are only rated at 30 MPA which is 4351 PSI, yet they also say 4500 PSI. Not sure what to think. I guess I could put that behind a metal blast shield if I was concerned about it rupturing.

1687484835903.png
 
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I don’t trust any midget tampon filters for removing moisture on my CAT/Altaros booster system.

This is what I use between my 3 CATS and my storage tank and booster and replace the dessicant in all three after each run. I never get moisture to my Altaros booster as a result.

I bought them off Amazon for around $45.00 each.
IMG_0128.jpeg


Regards,

Roachcreek
 
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