Do I really need "better" cooling with my Yong Heng compressor?

[Healthservices]

My YH has now passed the 3 year mark by always using ice in the water to keep operating temps as low as possible along with an external fan blowing across the head. One can "clown around" or follow other advice. Choices (and opinions) are usually free.

Do you feel this is the proper method for keeping a compressor cool and long lasting or is this just what you do?

How large of a container do you use? Do you continue to put ice in there to keep temps as low as possible or do you just let the ice melt as the compressor runs?

How long does your compressor run do you run until the desired pressure is reached or do you allow it to cool?

Do you fill tanks and how large?

 

[bandg]

My YH has now passed the 3 year mark by always using ice in the water to keep operating temps as low as possible along with an external fan blowing across the head. One can "clown around" or follow other advice. Choices (and opinions) are usually free.

Do you feel this is the proper method for keeping a compressor cool and long lasting or is this just what you do?

How large of a container do you use? Do you continue to put ice in there to keep temps as low as possible or do you just let the ice melt as the compressor runs?

How long does your compressor run do you run until the desired pressure is reached or do you allow it to cool?

Do you fill tanks and how large?

I certainly wouldn't do it if I did not believe it helped. And when you say "a compressor", remember that these are small highly stressed units using composite rings and having little to no built in cooling (the motor fan doesn't seem to do much). "Excessive heat" certainly would be bad, but the question is what is excessive. I top off a Great White tank regularly to 4400 (another "don't do" that many will state) and it takes around 11 minutes for a top off so I don't utilize "cool down" periods regularly. I've filled that tank once from empty using the YH and in that case I did do several stages of around 10 minutes to allow cooling. I agree with the common sense view above that starting the unit when extremely cold (crankcase) would not be good but this seems to be a condition easily avoided. The potential need to reduce the extreme heat produced while actually running seems to be the pertinent question.

If you take the time to run a small test, you will see the results that ice and an external fan produce. Run your unit with just a bucket of water for 10 minutes. Then add ice and repeat. Then add an external fan as well and repeat again. Each addition drops running temps on my unit noticeably. Whether such is needed is the relevant question. I'd take my 3 years of use as validation anytime.

 

[shambozzie]

Healthservices, at this point not sure what your point is. We all have offered our finding on how to keep the unit from overheating and extend life. Take into account the mechanical aspects (no bearings) its amazing the dam thing work at all. One of the best bang for the buck for pcp users. Our mission with the unit. "Staying alive".

 

[bandg]

Healthservices, at this point not sure what your point is. We all have offered our finding on how to keep the unit from overheating and extend life. Take into account the mechanical aspects (no bearings) its amazing the dam thing work at all. One of the best bang for the buck for pcp users. Our mission with the unit. "Staying alive".

Exactly. +1

 

[Healthservices]

Just trying to understand more of how these are built. How they hold up. How well they stand up to abuse. Often the case when these things are shipped they do not come with clear instructions if any at all. 

In my world, I deal with automotive engines. Tolerances are such, that there is a operating temperatures. There is even a light on some vehicles to state the the engine is still cold. On some cars full power is not even available until the engine has reached certain minimum requirements. 

It appears in the case with the YH compressor (maybe most compressors in general, i dunno?) The tolerances are such that these run best cold? 

The other question then is why must the unit be allowed to rest after 10 mins if the unit is not hot? Why can't it be running for 20, 30, or even hours at a time if kept cool? In another post i mentioned that i would just used pool water as a source of coolant. The water would never get hot and so the compressor will never get hot? So could i just keep the compressor going all night? 

And thanks for the responses sorry for my late responses as i am not retired yet and still work.



Allen

 

[deadhorse]

Very interesting talk we have here. 

I have been using compressors for all my life, grown up around them with at least weekly use of them, and my father for long before that. Mostly larger 80 gallon all the way up to 300 gallon 135 psi for autobody work and the like. At my dads shop his 2 compressors basically sat outside the shop in a "shed" that was not heated or cooled and those compressors ran everyday all day long in every temp. I asked him if he ever had any issues with cold weather or anything. And he told me he thought the cold weather was harder on the belts but he only did minor maintenance to those compressors for over 25yrs. I have a Puma 3 gallon compressor and I have ran it in every weather even below zero in freezing wyoming and on 112 deg days in Arizona. It went to many a jobsite with me and worked weekly and I have had it for 15yrs, Ive only ever had to replace the electrical switch. 

Now I know these compressors are a different beasts, but are they really all that different than a regular compressor to where cold weather will affect them so negatively? 

I can see the point about putting ice cold liquid in a hot water jacket but I dont think it would get that hot before the ice would melt which would warm up the water. I think the water and the pump would warm up together and ice water from a starting pump temp of lets say freezing to 120deg day would have zero affect because they would both warm up together and evenly. 

The thick oil I think would probably be the real problem with cold weather. And maybe a simple "movement" of the compressor could help coat the internals before starting? The Oil I use in my compressor and in my vacuum pumps is a real thin almost like mineral oil. I am not sure how thick the oil is for this pump. Would starting the compressor while its not under "load" and just let it run for a couple minutes while its not actually pumping up be similar to warming up your car? 

My wife will not be very happy with me if I have to have a compressor inside the house running. 

If worse comes to worse and these are more susceptible to cold weather then their normal counterparts then I guess I can always set a space heater in front of it for a little while before I start it in the winter to warm it up some. 

 

[Healthservices]

With a regular everyday air compressor they cycle, so by design their clearances are such they are constantly started up cold. And because majority of them are air cooled (no water jacket) and they cycle, many are not rated for 100% duty cycle. Meaning they are not meant to be constantly running. They cycle on only when the pressures are lower and cycle off when they reach a certain pressure. I believe they also have a pressure relief so the can restart without pressure in the cylinders. 

Of course with the YH it is significantly cheaper and made for even higher pressure. So its a bit unknown as what the design criteria is. 



Allen

 

[shambozzie]

Allen, good luck on your quest to figure out a climax with a calculator. I tried to help . Done with this one.

 

[Healthservices]

Thank you for your input shambozzie 

Just trying to figure some of the reasons people do what they do and if those reasons can or cannot be validated as things that should be done.



Allen

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

There's no shortage of long term yong heng users here. And there also is a pretty distinct pattern of recommendation, being that most overlap significantly or even match. I've experienced multiple failures operating at and beyond the edge of those recommendations. You'd be wise to heed them. If you want scientific data, it'd be best to aquire your own and conduct whatever experiments/measurements you wish. I don't need to know every iota to know what will kill this compressor.

I've done it many times in many ways. I've also fixed it every time, and continue to use the same unit extensively. 

 

[toku58]

My compressor runs about 130-140f on average. It starts at ambient and builds up to that range but so far it hasn't exceeded that temp. Seems like the flow rate vs the heat produced finds an equilibrium about that temperature. The area of concern would be the o-rings in the high pressure side.
I assume that people try to run colder water by using ice to aide in maintaining a lower temp. Does that cause additional risk?? Probably if the water is excessively cold?
But if it is only helping to maintain ambient temperature of the water and remove the excess heat?? That should be fine.

The more concerning part of the system is the point the temperature is being taken from. Because the sensor is at the base of the outer edge of the high pressure cylinder that leads me to believe the actual temp in the cylinder is much higher. 
At any case the speed that these compressor generate high pressure can't be good for longevity of the compressor. Slow and steady would be the best way to achieve the 4500 psi. The shoebox compressor actually had a better theoretical design. 
These Chinese compressors are cheap and living on borrowed time every time you run it! 

The sooner we accept that fact the better we can deal with the reality of failure. NEVER assume that these compressors are safe!!

Hell I expect it to fail every time I run it! 

I'm grateful every time it doesn't! LMAO!! 

You cannot avoid the Laws of Physics.

 

[bandg]

"You cannot avoid the Laws of Physics."

But somehow it seems one can dodge them for 3+ years. Good enough for me, especially in light of what I've spent for the use. Other options certainly exist for those that feel unsafe around one of these. Might cost a bit more, though.

 

[bigHUN]

I have a YH for more then a year and the hours (vibration counter gizmo) battery is to be replaced but I never let it touch a 55C. I shut it down and go for a coffee or do things until cools down. I am filling two 14 liter SCBA fireman tanks and one 12 liter Acecare (if I spell it right). Hoping to have it running for long time, but just to make sure couple months ago I bought a full headset directly from YH=ali for peanuts.

 

[JimNM]

Thermal inertia dictates that a bucket of cold water will provide cooling to a greater extent that a bucket of tepid water. The heat has to go somewhere.

My caution about COLD is from personal experience, yes even here in the desert SW we get sub freezing cold. My stuff stores on the garage which is unheated and has no effective insulation. My air pumps stay the night indoors for a least a night before they get used, when the garage gets cold at night. What is cold? I say under 50 degrees F. The oil lubricity is my main concern.

Cold water into the cooling system should not be taken to extremes. You don't want to get an ice build up that would constrict water flow. Try to stay away from extremes on either end of the temp gauge. Drain your water separator and as stated, never start ornshut down under pressure.

 

[biohazardman]

I think it is interesting that the general consensus seems to be to run a compressor cold and to keep it cold. Are the clearances in these units that tight? 



Allen

Allen, its all about controlling the heat. Run to long and get to hot, this is what happen. Orings cooked.

Looks like mine did after a couple of hours of use. It did not heat up but the 2nd stage piston threads did not receive their locktight at the factory and so it unscrewed a bit and banged itself to death on the head. Cheap parts and an easy fix though.

 

[biohazardman]

Yes some of us are doing cooling systems on their Yong Hengs but it really is not needed. It depends on the environment and length of run time if the cooling system or ice is useful. I used to just drop a half gallon container of ice in my 2.5 gallon reservoir and the YH ran fine for the 15 minutes or so I needed it. Then I installed the radiator and fans and a larger reservoir now don't need the ice but I still limit my run times to 15 or 20 minutes. Just watch the temp gauge it will let you know if you need more cooling.

 

[bandg]

"Cold water into the cooling system should not be taken to extremes. You don't want to get an ice build up that would constrict water flow. Try to stay away from extremes on either end of the temp gauge. Drain your water separator and as stated, never start ornshut down under pressure."

This isn't a concern during running. Could be if you are referring to initial startup after a sub-freezing night. I initially used larger blocks of ice as many suggest-frozen water bottles or such dropped into the reservoir. I found that crushed ice lowered running temperature noticeably in comparison to the larger blocks. I later added a screen in the center of my reservoir and I now add the crushed ice to the pump end with return water to the other end so return water flows across the crushed ice. This has worked very well in my case for a long time now and has never blocked water flow.

 

[Saltlake58]

I think it is interesting that the general consensus seems to be to run a compressor cold and to keep it cold. Are the clearances in these units that tight? 



Allen

Allen, its all about controlling the heat. Run to long and get to hot, this is what happen. Orings cooked.

Looks like mine did after a couple of hours of use. It did not heat up but the 2nd stage piston threads did not receive their locktight at the factory and so it unscrewed a bit and banged itself to death on the head. Cheap parts and an easy fix though.

Mine did exactly the same thing after a few hours of work. Had to order new piston head and wait, wait, wait, then did the repair and the oil gasket shrunk so had to order a new one and wait, wait, wait. Cheap parts, but the waiting for parts from China. That was my problem.

Anyway, it's up and running now, hopefully for a good long time.

I run mine up to 65C and no problems since the last rebuild a year ago (piston broke rebuild). I've always viewed YH compressors as somewhat disposable at the price point. I'll take care of it, give it the best oil I can and keep it reasonably cool, but if it dies, it becomes a donor machine for the next one. Tis the cycle of life for a YH.

 

[Target Forge]

Do you NEED it? Probably not. I did not like the idea of schlepping 5 gallon buckets of water around, messing with ice, etc. so I built a system that would do that for me. Was it practical? I don't know, or really care for that matter. I really like building stuff and solving problems, its what makes me tick. If you would like to understand more about what's going on inside that Chinese clatter trap, join me in the Yong Heng Hot Rod Shop on YouTube. The channel is Target Forge. I plan to use my platform to learn how to maximize the longevity of these things, if I help one person to understand these a bit deeper, mission accomplished. I'm learning, like everyone else, and I LOVE using fodder from the comments to create new episodes. Maybe together we can lift this contraption a bit higher, maybe not, but we might have some fun along the way!

https://youtu.be/wy5-odVvGXQ

 

[Healthservices]

Thanks Bill, love the video. So apparently there is more than just keeping the YH cool. There are other issues with the YH that can grenade the unit. Heat is only one factor.

Allen