Do any of you cascade fill?

I don't see it discussed here and I'm wondering if any of you cascade fill? I already have a Great White CF tank and a Guppy. I called Joe B. yesterday and placed an order for another Great White tank with his cascade fill assembly. Do any of you have Joe B's cascade fill assembly? If you have pics, could you please post them? 

I don't even know what it looks like lol. I've seen the Cascademan fill assembly from Airtanksplus.com but figured I would order from Joe because I needed to pick up another tank. The main reason I ordered the cascade fill assembly is for air efficiency getting the most fills out of the tanks and because of this...

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SHE IS HUNGRY!!!
 
You don't need a "cascade fill assembly" to cascade fill your gun's tank. You just need two tanks, each with a quick fill connector, such as the Great White already has. The concept is to use up one fill tank until there is not enough pressure in it to completely fill your gun. Then you use the second tank, which is at full pressure because you haven't used it yet, to bring your gun up to full pressure.

Each time you need to fill your gun you use the lower pressure fill tank first, to get your gun to some nominal fill level. Maybe 1200 to 1500 psi for instance. Then you disconnect from that fill tank, connect your gun to your second (higher pressure) tank and complete the fill to, say, 3000 psi or whatever your gun's max fill pressure is.

You can do this by having two tanks, each with a fill hose that connects to your gun's fill port separately. You just manually hook up to each tank as needed for partial, then full fill. All the cascade assembly does for you is put both tanks on one fill hose connection with a tee. You still have to open the first tank, fill as far as you can, shut off, bleed the line and then repeat with the second tank until gun is full. 

Essentially it is only saving you from having to hook up to your fill port twice - once for each tank. It is not providing any advantage other than that. Since each Great White comes with a fill hose with quick disconnect why not just use those as you switch from low pressure to high pressure fill tank? Saves a bunch of money too.
 
The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?
 
Yes, there certainly is a case for shorter fill whips from air tanks. Just as a large filter and additional hose set up will put more stress on your compressor, a longer fill whip will consume more air from your tank. That air is lost on each fill and bled off after the valve is closed. With the use of thinner (i.e. smaller diameter) fill hoses that can be alleviated somewhat.
 
The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?

The cascade technique is a valid and useful way to extend the time between needing to refill your tanks. It is the best way to use up that "lost air" in the tank when it drops to or below 3000 psi and can't fully fill your gun's reservoir.

I was only pointing out that the tee hose "cascade assembly" seems superfluous unless you are tee-ing multiple tanks at a time.

How you actually run the assembly is by attaching each of your tanks fill whips to the Tee connector (valves closed). the whip that extends from the tee goes to your gun's fill port. So now you have two tanks connected into the tee that runs to your gun. Simply open the valve on the tank with the lowest pressure and it will fill directly into your gun.

Say your gun is now half full and the tank's pressure can no longer push more air into the gun. At this point you turn off the tank valve and bleed the system. To top off your gun you open the valve on the second tank and fill your gun to the desired pressure. Close the valve and bleed the system on the second tank.

What the cascade assembly has done is to let you fill your gun from two tanks with one connection. Without it, you would manually attach each tank to the fill port after both the partial and top off fills. Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway, how hard is it to disconnect the fill line from the gun's fill port and connect the next tank to it? 

Not much advantage is derived from using the assembly.
 
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Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway

The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?

The cascade technique is a valid and useful way to extend the time between needing to refill your tanks. It is the best way to use up that "lost air" in the tank when it drops to or below 3000 psi and can't fully fill your gun's reservoir.

I was only pointing out that the tee hose "cascade assembly" seems superfluous unless you are tee-ing multiple tanks at a time.

How you actually run the assembly is by attaching each of your tanks fill whips to the Tee connector (valves closed). the whip that extends from the tee goes to your gun's fill port. So now you have two tanks connected into the tee that runs to your gun. Simply open the valve on the tank with the lowest pressure and it will fill directly into your gun.

Say your gun is now half full and the tank's pressure can no longer push more air into the gun. At this point you turn off the tank valve and bleed the system. To top off your gun you open the valve on the second tank and fill your gun to the desired pressure. Close the valve and bleed the system on the second tank.

What the cascade assembly has done is to let you fill your gun from two tanks with one connection. Without it, you would manually attach each tank to the fill port after both the partial and top off fills. Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway, how hard is it to disconnect the fill line from the gun's fill port and connect the next tank to it? 

Not much advantage is derived from using the assembly.

The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?

The cascade technique is a valid and useful way to extend the time between needing to refill your tanks. It is the best way to use up that "lost air" in the tank when it drops to or below 3000 psi and can't fully fill your gun's reservoir.

I was only pointing out that the tee hose "cascade assembly" seems superfluous unless you are tee-ing multiple tanks at a time.

How you actually run the assembly is by attaching each of your tanks fill whips to the Tee connector (valves closed). the whip that extends from the tee goes to your gun's fill port. So now you have two tanks connected into the tee that runs to your gun. Simply open the valve on the tank with the lowest pressure and it will fill directly into your gun.

Say your gun is now half full and the tank's pressure can no longer push more air into the gun. At this point you turn off the tank valve and bleed the system. To top off your gun you open the valve on the second tank and fill your gun to the desired pressure. Close the valve and bleed the system on the second tank.

What the cascade assembly has done is to let you fill your gun from two tanks with one connection. Without it, you would manually attach each tank to the fill port after both the partial and top off fills. Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway, how hard is it to disconnect the fill line from the gun's fill port and connect the next tank to it? 

"Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway Not much advantage is derived from using the assembly."=WRONG

I don’t bleed the system after using the 1st (lower pressure tank). I fill using the lower pressure tank, close the valve, open the high pressure tank to top it off, close the valve, then bleed the system using either of the two bleeders on the tanks. You do not need to bleed the system twice, after each tank. Since I have a pressure gauge on each of my tanks and the gun, I don't need another one on the cascade connector. Just leave the gun connected and go from the first to the second high pressure tank. All you need is what was in my picture. Another benefit: You don't have to switch your fill probe from the low pressure to the high pressure tank each time you fill.

I have discussed shorter hoses with Joe B before. He assured me that it sounds like a lot of air is lost each time one bleeds the system, with his micro bore hoses it is not really much.


 
Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway

The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?

The cascade technique is a valid and useful way to extend the time between needing to refill your tanks. It is the best way to use up that "lost air" in the tank when it drops to or below 3000 psi and can't fully fill your gun's reservoir.

I was only pointing out that the tee hose "cascade assembly" seems superfluous unless you are tee-ing multiple tanks at a time.

How you actually run the assembly is by attaching each of your tanks fill whips to the Tee connector (valves closed). the whip that extends from the tee goes to your gun's fill port. So now you have two tanks connected into the tee that runs to your gun. Simply open the valve on the tank with the lowest pressure and it will fill directly into your gun.

Say your gun is now half full and the tank's pressure can no longer push more air into the gun. At this point you turn off the tank valve and bleed the system. To top off your gun you open the valve on the second tank and fill your gun to the desired pressure. Close the valve and bleed the system on the second tank.

What the cascade assembly has done is to let you fill your gun from two tanks with one connection. Without it, you would manually attach each tank to the fill port after both the partial and top off fills. Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway, how hard is it to disconnect the fill line from the gun's fill port and connect the next tank to it? 

Not much advantage is derived from using the assembly.

The higher the fill pressure that modern airguns can operate at the more worthwhile this technique will become for those who own two SCBA tank but no compressor, but 300 bar capable guns like some EDGUNS, ATTAMAN and soon to be FX cant be run to their full advantage unless you have a compressor as normal SCBA cant give you 300 bar effectively.

Before I ran my first compressor I would run the first tank down to 250 bar, then use it to bulk fill from 100 bar up, then top off with a second bottle to 250, it saves trips to the place you get your cylinders filled for sure, but as above I had never seen a "cascade" attachment, infact I'm not sure how you would actually run one?

The cascade technique is a valid and useful way to extend the time between needing to refill your tanks. It is the best way to use up that "lost air" in the tank when it drops to or below 3000 psi and can't fully fill your gun's reservoir.

I was only pointing out that the tee hose "cascade assembly" seems superfluous unless you are tee-ing multiple tanks at a time.

How you actually run the assembly is by attaching each of your tanks fill whips to the Tee connector (valves closed). the whip that extends from the tee goes to your gun's fill port. So now you have two tanks connected into the tee that runs to your gun. Simply open the valve on the tank with the lowest pressure and it will fill directly into your gun.

Say your gun is now half full and the tank's pressure can no longer push more air into the gun. At this point you turn off the tank valve and bleed the system. To top off your gun you open the valve on the second tank and fill your gun to the desired pressure. Close the valve and bleed the system on the second tank.

What the cascade assembly has done is to let you fill your gun from two tanks with one connection. Without it, you would manually attach each tank to the fill port after both the partial and top off fills. Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway, how hard is it to disconnect the fill line from the gun's fill port and connect the next tank to it? 

"Since you have to open and close the valve on each tank and bleed it after each fill anyway Not much advantage is derived from using the assembly."=WRONG

I don’t bleed the system after using the 1st (lower pressure tank). I fill using the lower pressure tank, close the valve, open the high pressure tank to top it off, close the valve, then bleed the system using either of the two bleeders on the tanks. You do not need to bleed the system twice, after each tank. Since I have a pressure gauge on each of my tanks and the gun, I don't need another one on the cascade connector. Just leave the gun connected and go from the first to the second high pressure tank. All you need is what was in my picture. Another benefit: You don't have to switch your fill probe from the low pressure to the high pressure tank each time you fill.

I have discussed shorter hoses with Joe B before. He assured me that it sounds like a lot of air is lost each time one bleeds the system, with his micro bore hoses it is not really much.


Just to be clear, so when you close the valve on the low pressure tank and then open the valve on the high pressure tank to top off the gun, do you only bleed one of the tanks? Is there any air trapped in the hose of the tank that was not bled?
 
Correct. I only open the bleeder on one tank. No air is trapped in the hose of the tank not bled.

I just filled again, to prove it. Currently I have my high pressure tank on the left, low pressure tank on the right Filled my gun to a hair over 200 bar (all I have in the low pressure tank), but I want 225 bar. I closed the shutoff valve on the low pressure tank and opened the valve on the high pressure tank on the left (the higher pressure of the high pressure tank will overcome the lower pressure in the hose left from the low pressure tank), and topped it off to 225 bar and shut the valve on the high pressure tank. Now, both tank valves and both bleeders are closed BUT there is 225 bar of pressure in the hoses between the tanks, the tee fitting, and the hose to the gun. I open the bleeder on the lower pressure tank (only because I am right handed, it does not matter which tank bleeder you use). This bleeds the air from the hoses to the two tanks, the tee, and hose to the gun. There is no pressure remaining after fully bleeding. After removng the fill probe, which has no resistance, I opened the high pressure tank bleeder just to test it. Not a bit of air comes out (as long as you have both tank valves closed).

If I wanted a 225 bar fill from my low pressure tank, it would of course not be possible. The air in that tank is unavailable as long as I want to fill to a pressure higher than the 200 bar in it. I could, fill to 200 bar with it, bleed the system, move my fill probe to the high pressure tank, top it off and bleed a second time before removing the fill probe from the gun (of course). I could also leave the air in the low pressure tank unused, and just use the high pressure tank until it is below my 225 bar fill pressure, and refill both tanks. I can use much more of the air in both tanks if I fill with the lower pressure tank, and then take a sip of air from the high pressure tank to top it off, currently 25 bar.

I have all 3 sizes of Joe B. tanks and a Bauer Junior II with auto shutoff I bought new, so why not just run both tanks until I can no longer fill to 225 bar, and then refill both tanks? I will tell you why. Mr Porter Stiles of August Industries in TX recommended I not do that. He said the Bauer Junior II is made to fill large tanks or numbers of small tanks like the ones we use. The problem is, when I leave that 225 bar in those tanks and go to top them off, my compressor fills all 3 in less than 30 minutes, which is not good on the compressor. The compressor needs to get hot to cook the moisture out of it. A longer runtime of 45 minutes to an hour, or longer, is better. If you see the oil level in your compressor rise, it means you probably have water in your oil. I am considering buying one or two more Great White tanks from Joe B to lengthen my run time, which as you know gets expensive at $900 each. By using the cascade fitting, I can use more of the air in the tanks I have, and make my run time longer when I do fill, until I buy more tanks.

Unfortunately, due to some of the misinformation posted here, some feel cascade filling is complex and is no different or beneficial than filling from 2 tanks, both of which are not true. Each user has to decide if it is beneficial to them and their needs based on their use.
 
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. Very good info. My Great White tank and cascade fill assembly just shipped from Joe B. My next investment is a good compressor. Maybe an Alkin or Bauer. It's hard to justify right now because I have two dive shops near me. One is a 12 minute drive away from home and the other is a 5 minute drive. They both charge $3.50 a fill.
 
You are welcomed. I bought the Bauer in 2012, and used it for the first time last year, as i was always on the move. When I landed here, the nearest dive shop is a 30 minute drive one way, and the guy insisted I leave it overnight, so 4 30 minute trips per fill, 2 wasted hours. The last straw was when I took it in with 3900 psi in it, and he filled it to 4200 psi. Cost-$21. He never filled past 4300 psi, as much as I asked for 4500 or close to it.

If I could tell guys getting into this sport one thing, it would be: figure out the air supply BEFORE you buy an air hungry PCP or don’t do it! Would you buy a $50,000 vehicle if there were no gas stations?

In your situation, you do not need a compressor. You may still want one, one day. When you need it, you will know it. A couple tanks and a cacade fill will go a long way, and at the price and distance you can fill for, it’s a no-brainer.
 
I can say that I'm very fortunate right now having a dive shop close to me. I've made friends with the guys that fill my tanks and they make sure I'm topped off or over 4500 psi. The only snag I've come across is when COVID came in March of last year shutting down all non-essential businesses. That's when I started to worry and thought about picking up a compressor. The last thing I want to do is dust off my old Hill pump to work on these triceps.