Derrick Wall Shoots a Perfect EFT Score!

[AirNGasman]

Cole, it seems you took my last post personally. I would apologize, but it's not called for.

If you simply disagree with my observations and comments, I have no problem with that. But if you did take my post personally, you're simply mistaken. I repeat-

"No, I'm not alluding to anyone in this thread; rather, what I've lived through in AAFTA-related debates that bear too much resemblance to some things popping up in this thread."

 

[steve123]

all that would be splits would count because the spinner would move.

Just giving my opinion so I mean no offense.

What you stated is true but a slightly smaller spinner size can make make up for that, however its not much different than using 5 different calibers in EFT, 17, 20, 22, 25 and 30 cal on the kill zones of knock down targets. Maybe 17 and 20 cal wouldn't have an advantage because of wind drift due to the lower BC but 22, 25 and 30 cal are close to the same in BC and 30 cal is definitely a disadvantage on smaller/smallest KZ's and technically on every target. 22 should have the most advantage followed by 25 but I don't think in actual competition we can see any difference. Which makes Derrick's 30 cal score even more impressive. I've already congratulated him in text but you da man Derrick!

For sure spinners are cheaper, easier to make, and have other advantages like not having to use strings or ropes also much less prone to failure. Plus like in Wayne's match everyone is shooting at spinners so its no less fair than a match where everyone is shooting at KZ's on knock down targets. It's a different type of trade off depending on the type of steel target.

It's just that I hate not seeing where I missed because I'm learning nothing.

 

[Nofilters]

ROFLMAO... Power? Good one. To do what pray tell? I have made no decisions that affect the EFT GP without consensus of the others. Just because one MD doesn't get his way doesn't mean there wasn't an informed majority decision. And who then is the MD for the final GP event at EBR? Please let me know, obviously I got it wrong? I think we both confirmed what we hoped not to be true about each other and see your mentality and general attitude towards all this play out, although I still think you're a good guy with opinions that are different from mine. And FYI, I'm certain that both Larry and I would give up being a voting member of the BOD and just help with all the adminstrivia if the MDs wanted it that way. Please call my cell if you'd like to discuss this further, I'd like to hear what you really think and why...
PS., somehow you have appointed yourself as the member of one club to speak for everyone in every club,, and for the MD of your club.. Seems like you criticized someone for seemingly doing similar?

Everyone would be chasing Bobby, and 10 points behind if that other match director didn't refuse to not to be beholden to money and ego. You were the one calling everyone to cry victim (Mod edit: removed insulting content) when a person that didn't even qualify for a match was allowed to take a qualifiers spot. That qualifier said he had to go and give it to the next inline. Mysteriously that qualifier was still there when the nonqualified won the benchrest match the next day. While not perfect the other match director FROM THE BEGINNING has been about the future of EFT and INCLUSIVENESS. While Pinky and the Brain jumped in for greed ego and money, oh and for the sport. If you really want to grow the sport and give integrity there are ways. The first step is to listen to others ideas. If you want a system of ideas to accomplish participation, course difficulty, traveling, or integrity to the national point system let that other match director know. Oh and you should know the main rule in FT is if it doesn't fall you don't get a point, yet another integrity check failed.

 

[Centercut]

Uncle

Congrats Derrick, sorry for screwing up the OP. .

“If you want a system of ideas to accomplish participation, course difficulty, traveling, or integrity to the national point system let that other match director know”. -

Everyone has been open to that other match director’s input, but for almost a year nothing but crickets. None of us can read minds. All he needed to do was speak up….

PS., you were 100% correct in insisting that we limit annual GP points to 6. BZ!

 

[FunGun]

Hey! Did you guys hear?
DW cleared the course!
His gun is for sale in the classifieds!

PS. CONGRATS DW!

 

[Nofilters]

I Spoke up in the beginning and got ignored.It was everyone was ya ya ya whatever your ideas are. I suggested Troyer scoring for GP type events and got shut down. I said over and over you all were creating an EXCLUSIVE group, not an inclusive group. You were hell-bent on forcing people to travel. So I stood my ground on the GROSSLY unfair points system proposal and agreed for this year only to the unfair points system. I also took a stance on organizers not accepting the national champion title. I stated then and still say perception is reality and the first year or foundation is the most important time. I also said because of optics and the appearance transparency that if we were going to have 1 manufacturer/vendor on the board there should be 2 or 3. See the whole problem here is I as my handle states HAVE NO FILTERS and taking a score for a target that did not fall. Allow me to behold to someone so I have to turn my head when the rule are changed to benefit them. Then complain to others that you did not agree with it and how terrible it was. I will, would call that out.
I believe this is why there were meetings that I had no idea about until after the fact. Why, because you knew I would not just go along. Now you say I didn't speak up(crickets).So again I started this EFT not American FT with the help and loaning of targets to me. I then set my own rules("your the match director Ben I am the Sponsor") which still stand and are widely liked. I will continue to grow what I built in Phoenix and IF people want to come to enjoy a fair uncompromised event they will know where to go. I can go on and on. The point is I had a vision almost 7 years ago to do this and I did it. I also proved that it is not a "NOVELTY" once-a-year venue. ("Leave it alone Ben there is not enough interest") This proves my reason for spending my own money and building the best course in the country. So you just keep being you and I will keep being me. Just be prepared because if he stops, to quick it is going to be a foul mess to clean up.LOL THIS WILL BE MY LAST comment on this. I apologize, Derrick, you deserve tremendous kudos for your achievement.

 

[Centercut]

I read the whole thing and it is a good fair post. The only part I didn’t understand was taking a point for not knocking down a target. What was that all about, I’m curious? Also I would like to know what is grossly unfair about the points system so we can make it better? Thanks for speaking up without throwing stones.

 

[Michael]

Alrightythen, I'm glad everyone got that off their chest! Perhaps one day y'all will be able to organize and agree on standardizing something across the Nation which I'm certain would benefit everyone.

Congratulations Derrick, great shooting man!

 

[Airgunoregon]

Yes, congrats Derrick!!! VERY well Done indeed.. Especially with a 30 cal. It's really a bummer your thread was highjacked with this stuff... but this is where my response belongs unfortunately....

I'm one of the match directors on Robert's board. I was asked by Robert, the owner of AOA if we would be one of the clubs to host EFT events in their Proposed Grand Prix series when I posted an EFT event I was planning to host in Ashland, Or. Robert agreed to put up most of the prize money and the paper BR targets. We had already built the swingers in boxes for our planned game. Robert said that would be fine for this year. Maybe next year he would help us purchase knock down targets.

I'm not excited about switching to knock downs because we are right next to the creek and we HAVE to collect the lead at the targets, so the swingers are in boxes with steel backstops that we also paint at the start of the match. Knock down targets also allow the shooter to see their miss at first until the targets get all shot up... same here. We would have to build new larger pellet trap/boxes for knock downs if that becomes a rule. That might be a no go for us.

Yes, splits are a factor... but as Steve has said the same factor for everyone. Not having to deal with strings/ropes is a really good thing in my opinion. There are pluses and minuses for both. It's like the troyer factor being different at each course.. all shooters shot the same course. It doesn't matter if one GP has a different troyer than another.

Robert has been paying the way for the most part and making the final decisions with advice from the board of Match Directors he asked to serve.

If folks want to arrange funding and organize their own league.... Ok give it a go. I don't have the time and I'm happy working with Robert. I think he has been fair and listened to our proposals and is listening still.

Wayne Burns
Match Director
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 

[okieairgunner]

Please stay with me. I am not great at putting my thoughts into words. If something does not make sense let me know and I’ll do my best to clarify. I might regret saying anything in this thread but I am just going to give my 2 cents. That’s really all it’s worth because I’m a nobody redneck that has fallen head over hills for this sport. As my wife can tell you over the last year just getting into this airgun stuff I sleep and eat airguns. It has given me a outlet that I been looking for for a very long time. Over the last 9-10 months competing in field target and getting ready to compete in field target is all I think about. Now I have a new addition to my passion for field target in shooting EFT. I have enjoyed so much being able to shoot in Texas and especially the GP event. Ron does such a great job putting on events. This year I am getting to go to my first ever EBR and of course shoot EFT match. I really wish I could of gone to more GP events to gain more points but with a 2 year old and one on the way it’s just not possible. If I understand the point system right there is no way that I could win the finals if I have one point and someone els has 4 correct? Even if I beat them at the finals? I am just a little confused.

I have no dog in this fight. Like I said I’m just an nobody that loves airguns. I hope more than anything EFT sport grows. I think having some similar things as AAFTA does would only help grow the sport and make it great. Some things just in my observation would be targets being of any configuration as long as they are the same size killzone for that distance. One of our local guys Randy made some awesome EFT targets that auto reset. As long as they meet some sort guidelines to the rules they should be allowed. This would only boot more clubs joining the game.

Having a Troyer scale that would allow MD to set up a coarse to the same or similar standards that you might find at another match.

I would love to see more matches put on in more places and more GP events. It does kinda suck and it seams that if I don’t get to all or most of the GP events I have no chance in the finals.

Again, I’m a nobody that just loves this sport. Whatever you big wigs decide us little guys will do our best to follow. I just might have to wait till my kids to be grown more to really get those GP points.

 

[Franklink]

Please stay with me. I am not great at putting my thoughts into words. If something does not make sense let me know and I’ll do my best to clarify. I might regret saying anything in this thread but I am just going to give my 2 cents. That’s really all it’s worth because I’m a nobody redneck that has fallen head over hills for this sport. As my wife can tell you over the last year just getting into this airgun stuff I sleep and eat airguns. It has given me a outlet that I been looking for for a very long time. Over the last 9-10 months competing in field target and getting ready to compete in field target is all I think about. Now I have a new addition to my passion for field target in shooting EFT. I have enjoyed so much being able to shoot in Texas and especially the GP event. Ron does such a great job putting on events. This year I am getting to go to my first ever EBR and of course shoot EFT match. I really wish I could of gone to more GP events to gain more points but with a 2 year old and one on the way it’s just not possible. If I understand the point system right there is no way that I could win the finals if I have one point and someone els has 4 correct? Even if I beat them at the finals? I am just a little confused.

I have no dog in this fight. Like I said I’m just an nobody that loves airguns. I hope more than anything EFT sport grows. I think having some similar things as AAFTA does would only help grow the sport and make it great. Some things just in my observation would be targets being of any configuration as long as they are the same size killzone for that distance. One of our local guys Randy made some awesome EFT targets that auto reset. As long as they meet some sort guidelines to the rules they should be allowed. This would only boot more clubs joining the game.

Having a Troyer scale that would allow MD to set up a coarse to the same or similar standards that you might find at another match.

I would love to see more matches put on in more places and more GP events. It does kinda suck and it seams that if I don’t get to all or most of the GP events I have no chance in the finals.

Again, I’m a nobody that just loves this sport. Whatever you big wigs decide us little guys will do our best to follow. I just might have to wait till my kids to be grown more to really get those GP points.

Absolutely spot on post!!! I'm in a similar situation of absolutely loving it and wanting to be at every event, but also having small children and a young family and responsibilities that simply don't allow for the travel. Anyway I feel the same and agree with all of what you said, minus a couple of your last few statements. There are no big wigs, just people that think they are. Any competitive event or game (or whatever you want to classify this as) requires participants, in this case shooters. No shooter is any more important than the next. I would suspect similar thoughts of not being part of the clique, or having a good enough gun, or etc. have kept some from coming and enjoying it. Which is really quite unfortunate.

If you've got the excitement and desires to be a part of it and compete, you're just as crucial for the future of this thing as any other shooter. Or at least you should be. The current monarchy would do well to remember that.

 

[Centercut]

Caleb,

The setup for EFT GP points is like this:

1 point for your first annual GP event

1/2 point for each subsequent GP that year

At each event, 3 points for first, 2 points for second, 1 point for third, or as the MD deems to split up his 6 points available.

No matter how many points you earn you are limited to 6 going into EBR EFT.

For example, I shot TX my 1st event and got 1 point. Then I shot Utah and got 1/2 point. And I came in 3rd in Utah for 1 point. Total 2-1/2 points.

At EBR you will earn a score. Maximum is 40 if you clear the course.

Your GP points earned that year will be added to your EBR EFT score. That will be your final GP overall score.

So if someone has 6 GP points and shoots 32, his total is 38.
And if you have 1 GP point and then clean sweep the course you have 41 points and beat the person that had 6 points.

Make sense?

 

[pesty3782]

Barbara and I started this sport and fell in love with the sport and the people and can't wait for the next outing, but there are 3 people here that took a "Congratulation Derrick" thread and destroyed it If the 3 of you want to keep going on at each other then PM each other, start a new thread, or maybe find a neutral spot and sit down and discuss it like grown ups I have met, talked, and shot with all three of you and I like all three of you. One I consider a close friend and mentor so posting this is not easy, but I think needed.

Each of you have a passion for this sport/hobby and we, as shooters are better off that you do. This sport can excel with your passion, but only if the bickering stops, egos put aside, and "WE" work together. Now that this is off my chest, I do feel better.

Now for the reason for the thread....Great job Derrick!!!!!! Can't wait to meet you in person one day and not just through texts and phone calls.....

Tony P.

 

[Franklink]

Caleb,

The setup for EFT GP points is like this:

1 point for your first annual GP event

1/2 point for each subsequent GP that year

At each event, 3 points for first, 2 points for second, 1 point for third, or as the MD deems to split up his 6 points available.

No matter how many points you earn you are limited to 6 going into EBR EFT.

For example, I shot TX my 1st event and got 1 point. Then I shot Utah and got 1/2 point. And I came in 3rd in Utah for 1 point. Total 2-1/2 points.

At EBR you will earn a score. Maximum is 40 if you clear the course.

Your GP points earned that year will be added to your EBR EFT score. That will be your final GP overall score.

So if someone has 6 GP points and shoots 32, his total is 38.
And if you have 1 GP point and then clean sweep the course you have 41 points and beat the person that had 6 points.

Make sense?

There's also two winners right Mike? The GP winner, and the winner of the EBR EFT match? I suppose they could end up being the same person but each will be recognized if it works out that way? Seems like I heard it explained that way somewhere in the last year.

 

[Centercut]

There's also two winners right Mike? The GP winner, and the winner of the EBR EFT match? I suppose they could end up being the same person but each will be recognized if it works out that way? Seems like I heard it explained that way somewhere in the last year.

Yes Cole, correct. The GP uses the EBR EFT as the season ending event as described above. But the “regular” EBR EFT event actually has two winners, the Sniper Class (.177 to .22) and the Magnum Class (.25 and .30). The GP doesn’t have caliber classes. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Airgunoregon]

I believe there are two winners for the .25 - .30 class as well Mike. The Grand Prix winner and the winner of the EBR match. One counted with the GP points and one without.
I could be wrong, but that's the way I understood the goal.

Wayne

 

[Centercut]

I believe there are two winners for the .25 - .30 class as well Mike. The Grand Prix winner and the winner of the EBR match. One counted with the GP points and one without.
I could be wrong, but that's the way I understood the goal.

Wayne

Yes. Three winners. Sniper, Magnum, and GP. The score in either Class counts toward a shooters GP score.

 

[okieairgunner]

Caleb,

The setup for EFT GP points is like this:

1 point for your first annual GP event

1/2 point for each subsequent GP that year

At each event, 3 points for first, 2 points for second, 1 point for third, or as the MD deems to split up his 6 points available.

No matter how many points you earn you are limited to 6 going into EBR EFT.

For example, I shot TX my 1st event and got 1 point. Then I shot Utah and got 1/2 point. And I came in 3rd in Utah for 1 point. Total 2-1/2 points.

At EBR you will earn a score. Maximum is 40 if you clear the course.

Your GP points earned that year will be added to your EBR EFT score. That will be your final GP overall score.

So if someone has 6 GP points and shoots 32, his total is 38.
And if you have 1 GP point and then clean sweep the course you have 41 points and beat the person that had 6 points.

Make sense?

Thank you for clarification. I appreciate it. I cant wait to get down there and start shooting.

 

[Airgunoregon]

I had proposed using the AAFTA method for Grand Prix points, but that didn't fly. In the AAFTA method, the highest score at a GP from any class becomes 100% and every other score is a percent of that score. A competitors top three scores from Grand Prix's held around the country are what is counted... They can shoot as many GPs as they want, but only the top 3 scores count. The National Championship is the last Grand Prix of the season, but it doesn't count for any more points than any other GP.

And if the competitor has 3 scores, they don't even have to attend the Nationals to win the GP series. I can see why that doesn't work for Robert and understand his point of view.

In any case, the Grand Prix series were designed to encourage competitors to travel and shoot in different venues and test their skills on courses other than their home venue.

Yes, that does hamper those who can't travel, but GPs aren't for everyone and were never meant to be... Local clubs can have their own local GPs from a combination of scores from their local events.

Wayne

 

[zx10wall]

Barbara and I started this sport and fell in love with the sport and the people and can't wait for the next outing, but there are 3 people here that took a "Congratulation Derrick" thread and destroyed it If the 3 of you want to keep going on at each other then PM each other, start a new thread, or maybe find a neutral spot and sit down and discuss it like grown ups I have met, talked, and shot with all three of you and I like all three of you. One I consider a close friend and mentor so posting this is not easy, but I think needed.

Each of you have a passion for this sport/hobby and we, as shooters are better off that you do. This sport can excel with your passion, but only if the bickering stops, egos put aside, and "WE" work together. Now that this is off my chest, I do feel better.

Now for the reason for the thread....Great job Derrick!!!!!! Can't wait to meet you in person one day and not just through texts and phone calls.....

Tony P.

Thank you, Tony.

Agree on all accounts of your post. Without the passion, no one would care much and there wouldn't be concerns of growing Extreme FT. Passion is fantastic!

Control and poise are also imperative. I agree, off forum discussions, of this degree, are best.

The GP series has been run well. There will be improvements, I'm sure. Have a great day y'all.