Delta Wolf and slugs
- Thread starter Corvid_hunter
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I have tried several weights of .25 and have not found a good tune yet around 3/4" at 30 yards
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My 0.22 required replacement of the barrel (installed an STX superior heavy) and significant reworking of the chrony/shroud assembly with improved support and airstripper to shoot anything even vaguely straight, never mind slugs. Made a thread on that a while ago.
After that it was great with quite a few slugs, but still suffered from the slow first shot after going into sleep mode quirk, the downrange effects of which were accentuated when shooting slugs.
After that it was great with quite a few slugs, but still suffered from the slow first shot after going into sleep mode quirk, the downrange effects of which were accentuated when shooting slugs.
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Brutal X2. I remember your modification thread. It was very good. It sure sounds like the Delta Wolf is a couple of generations away from being called good.
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My old Pulsar, which has no mechanical regulator, calculates solenoid dwell time and voltage Vs pressure to maintain a consistent MV and I've never had a problem with the first shot MV.
Any idea why the problem only seems to exist with the DW ?
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Your guess is as good as mine!
I believe the guy that did the programming for the guns up to the red wolf passed away so maybe it's due to buggy software written by someone new?
If anything with the additional regulator it should be a lot easier to have the first shot bang on with the delta wolf, but so much for that idea!
I believe the guy that did the programming for the guns up to the red wolf passed away so maybe it's due to buggy software written by someone new?
If anything with the additional regulator it should be a lot easier to have the first shot bang on with the delta wolf, but so much for that idea!
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Just like any other regulated rifle, the pressure and hammer tune work together to achieve the velocity. The suggested pressures are designed to be adequate for multiple projectiles and velocities. The 1st shot low can be eliminated by tuning like any other regulated rifle. Set the reg pressure high enough to tune it onto the knee of the velocity curve and you'll have no more first shot low for that one projectile/tune. If you use Factory mode, the recommended pressure will always yield a first shot low for the above reason. However, once you have fired a couple and it's found the velocity, it behaves more like a RW and will compensate as it goes off reg. In Advanced mode, it does not compensate and will only apply your settings so when goes off reg, it behaves like any other regulated rifle with that pressure/hammer setting.
It's just a matter of trading versatility for constancy. YOU decide which is more important at that moment.
Hope this helps...
Bob
It's just a matter of trading versatility for constancy. YOU decide which is more important at that moment.
Hope this helps...
Bob
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While it's true you can flatten out the low first shot by setting the velocity at the bleeding edge of what the reg pressure can provide, the explanation doesn't make sense. Also the issues aren't when coming off the reg, they're occurring while on it.
So factory mode works with chrony feedback and presumably some form of gcu compensation for any reg pressure shifts to keep velocity stable. Much like an MVT airwolf did years ago, but with an easier job on the pressure side thanks to the reg. Yet the airwolf can keep the first shot velocity perfect every time regardless of bottle pressure, whereas the delta wolf can lose 80+ fps if you accidentally let it go to sleep for a split second. Somehow the airwolf also kept better ES.
Advanced mode either just loses the chrony and still maintains some GCU pressure compensation exactly like the Red Wolf (if you listen to several sources on AGN) or as you seem to imply above, just uses the exact dwell time you input like normal hammer spring tension (talk about going backwards?). Yet somehow it too will have a major drop in first shot velocity if you let it go to sleep for an instant without the reg pressure tuned as you described. All the while a similarly chrony-less red wolf or pulsar would be bang on after going into standby.
The reg pressure or any other physical characteristic within the gun, however set, cannot have changed significantly enough (if at all) in that split second to provide any reasonable explanation for the gun to have such a profound velocity drop after waking.
That leaves poor programming as the only real potential culprit, whether that be in the failure to write all the pertinent variables into memory at the time of going into standby, failure to accurately charge the board's capacitors on startup prior to that first shot, or some other bug.
The issue with tuning as described above is that you are currently severely hampered in your tuning options as you are basically forced to use a single reg pressure for any given velocity in advanced mode, with no wiggle room to eke out more performance or efficiency, completely negating the point of a gcu and it's fine control of the hammer strike. And factory mode isn't really versatile, its just useless.
So factory mode works with chrony feedback and presumably some form of gcu compensation for any reg pressure shifts to keep velocity stable. Much like an MVT airwolf did years ago, but with an easier job on the pressure side thanks to the reg. Yet the airwolf can keep the first shot velocity perfect every time regardless of bottle pressure, whereas the delta wolf can lose 80+ fps if you accidentally let it go to sleep for a split second. Somehow the airwolf also kept better ES.
Advanced mode either just loses the chrony and still maintains some GCU pressure compensation exactly like the Red Wolf (if you listen to several sources on AGN) or as you seem to imply above, just uses the exact dwell time you input like normal hammer spring tension (talk about going backwards?). Yet somehow it too will have a major drop in first shot velocity if you let it go to sleep for an instant without the reg pressure tuned as you described. All the while a similarly chrony-less red wolf or pulsar would be bang on after going into standby.
The reg pressure or any other physical characteristic within the gun, however set, cannot have changed significantly enough (if at all) in that split second to provide any reasonable explanation for the gun to have such a profound velocity drop after waking.
That leaves poor programming as the only real potential culprit, whether that be in the failure to write all the pertinent variables into memory at the time of going into standby, failure to accurately charge the board's capacitors on startup prior to that first shot, or some other bug.
The issue with tuning as described above is that you are currently severely hampered in your tuning options as you are basically forced to use a single reg pressure for any given velocity in advanced mode, with no wiggle room to eke out more performance or efficiency, completely negating the point of a gcu and it's fine control of the hammer strike. And factory mode isn't really versatile, its just useless.
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All the Wolfs use a table of pressure vs dwell and voltage to set the hammer energy. The most current Factory tables loaded into the DW are quite a bit more refined and if the pellet weight is input accurately and the reg set to suggested pressure , will yield a first shot very close to target... just like the RW. The MVT was slightly different but still used a similar table.
The first DW software contained tables that were not well refined for a variety of reasons. They can be updated with the latest software and tables. Your problem of 1st shot after going to sleep has also been addressed in the current software.
The Advanced mode is for YOU to control.
I can only help you understand how it works. If that isn't enough, my suggestion would be to find a rifle you like. I personally prefer mine over my RW and that is saying a lot, for me. I don't believe that it's perfect but like the repeatability and versatility and most of all, the ergos. I do appreciate the efforts you've shared to make it better, though.
Bob
The first DW software contained tables that were not well refined for a variety of reasons. They can be updated with the latest software and tables. Your problem of 1st shot after going to sleep has also been addressed in the current software.
The Advanced mode is for YOU to control.
I can only help you understand how it works. If that isn't enough, my suggestion would be to find a rifle you like. I personally prefer mine over my RW and that is saying a lot, for me. I don't believe that it's perfect but like the repeatability and versatility and most of all, the ergos. I do appreciate the efforts you've shared to make it better, though.
Bob
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Sorry Bob, I see my irritation with the rifle spilled over into my response to you. It was also done after midnight my time so there is that, too. Please don't take anything I said as a personal attack - I know your just trying to assist.
After spending what I did for the latest and greatest from what was my favourite manufacturer and needing to go to the lengths I did to fix the hardware on my gun and those of several friends, only to be further hampered by software issues we can do nothing about but wait and hope they fix, you can imagine my love for the DW has faded a bit.
Anyway from your last post it seems we are in agreement that the software is/was problematic and needs tweaking, although it appears you may have received a more recent update than anyone here at this stage. At least it's coming.
The gun I posted my thread on has since moved on to a long time friend who, knowing everything from the start is more forgiving of its quirks. Unfortunately we still find ourselves discussing them at length fairly regularly. I will ask him to enquire about when he can expect to be able to update.
Keep well!
After spending what I did for the latest and greatest from what was my favourite manufacturer and needing to go to the lengths I did to fix the hardware on my gun and those of several friends, only to be further hampered by software issues we can do nothing about but wait and hope they fix, you can imagine my love for the DW has faded a bit.
Anyway from your last post it seems we are in agreement that the software is/was problematic and needs tweaking, although it appears you may have received a more recent update than anyone here at this stage. At least it's coming.
The gun I posted my thread on has since moved on to a long time friend who, knowing everything from the start is more forgiving of its quirks. Unfortunately we still find ourselves discussing them at length fairly regularly. I will ask him to enquire about when he can expect to be able to update.
Keep well!
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Thanks for your response , Macros. I (we) much appreciate your efforts and your sharing of them. It WILL further the refinement . I do agree that the DW can seem to be underdeveloped but it really is small things that need final tweeking. If you take into account the design intent... a true Do-Everything rifle with convenient tuning selection , it's very close. Mine can generate 10 to 100 ft lb with great consistency and reasonable (but not incredible ) efficiency and is very simple to go from tune to tune with absolute repeatability. The breadth of that capability means that something will likely be less than could be achieved by one more specialized .
Not to further derail this thread but I currently have fitted a short 177 and 22, a 23" 177, 22, and 25 and have a 20 in the cue. I have experimented extensively with all with PELLETS but have a pile of slugs in 177, 22, and 25 on hand that may see some action soon. THIS is really the magic of it. I love this rifle but maybe am forgiving of that first shot when operating it in some of the testing and general shooting. I DO use special tunes when competing, though. They are just appropriate reg pressures to the energy needed. I don't hunt much any more but if I did, would use a competition ready tune.
Anyway, that's just my approach and use.
I don't know how many rounds have gone through it and my RW. It's in the 40k area for the DW and at least twice that for Wally, my RW. My Safari is likely in the ballpark of the DW. Wally still is incredible and feels like home every time I shoot it but I really like the ergos and features of the DW more. Great rifles !!
Thanks again
Bob
Not to further derail this thread but I currently have fitted a short 177 and 22, a 23" 177, 22, and 25 and have a 20 in the cue. I have experimented extensively with all with PELLETS but have a pile of slugs in 177, 22, and 25 on hand that may see some action soon. THIS is really the magic of it. I love this rifle but maybe am forgiving of that first shot when operating it in some of the testing and general shooting. I DO use special tunes when competing, though. They are just appropriate reg pressures to the energy needed. I don't hunt much any more but if I did, would use a competition ready tune.
Anyway, that's just my approach and use.
I don't know how many rounds have gone through it and my RW. It's in the 40k area for the DW and at least twice that for Wally, my RW. My Safari is likely in the ballpark of the DW. Wally still is incredible and feels like home every time I shoot it but I really like the ergos and features of the DW more. Great rifles !!
Thanks again
Bob
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I have had great groups under MOA at 100 yards shooting the 37grain slugs from ZAN about 950 to 970.
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I’ve heard from a handful of shooters thst the .25 ART barrel n DW/AW and RW like the 37 grain ZAN from 900 up to 975 fps. My gun also shot the 29 grain Nielsen at 950 fps very accurately. The .22 barrel s a PELLET barrel designed to shoot the RD Monsters like a LASER. But sadly not so much with slugs.
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That’s just unfortunate, why would they have 2 different barrel for different caliber? At least offer the choice of slug vs pellet barrel or keep barrel use case consistent across calibers of the same gun. Glad my apprehension paid of because if I had bought one it would of been the 22 version.
This is especially bad when the new NSA 35 and 38 grain slugs are mind bending good! I just switched my impact to 22 from 25 just for those new slugs!
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D
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I had problems with my delta wolf not grouping at all with slugs so this morning I went out shooting and set my target at 25.5 y and I used the factory setting for 18g and set the speed to 1000 fps and left the reg set at 160 bar ( see pic 3)and it shot ok then I set the speed to 900 fps and the group was real good (pic 2 ) then I did a custom setting at 3000 u 65v and 160 reg (pic 1 ) so it does shoot real good with howler slugs but it took me a lot of trying to get it that way
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Alpha Wolf in 22 has too slow a twist rate to stabilize slugs. This was found out after local dealer sold one to shoot slugs. Didn't know. So customer has now ordered a 25 cal barrel kit. Guessing Delta Wolf has same barrel in 22.
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D
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this is 25y with howler slugs , the gun was set on advance and the settings I used were 3000u at 68v and 160 reg , fps was 895 , if you go above 900 they dont shoot very good , you might be able to try 920 I have shot them at 950 and 1000 with bad groups , I have not tried heavy slugs yet , the groups in the pic are 5 and 7 shots
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D
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the first time I went out I had it at 65v but the second time I changed it to 70v at 3100u and it shot worse I think fps was about 965 so I put it back to 3000u and just up the voltage to 68 and the fps was about 5 fps faster than it was the first time but the groups got tighter
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D
Deleted member 45749
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I tried jsb 25g ko slugs in .217 and shot 2 groups at 25y , I used the factory setting for 25g , I did not have time to set a custom program but I think I can get better groups once I start making ajustments
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