Debate - I'm going to convince you it's worthless shooting slugs out of a PCP
- Thread starter blackdiesel
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bd... ok. Sheesh, I know that the lefties are succeeding in stomping us down, but the thought of no moderators on air rifles too... well, you know that IS coming! :-/. Along with classifying air rifles the same as powder burners, with commensurate restrictions. Just a matter of time. There are a LOT of cities with ordinances which prohibit the use of air rifles within city limits already! Geez... next thing you know, counties will do the same thing - and no more shooting ANYTHING in your back yard, even if you have an acre or two.
Sorry for the topic diversion, after this recent election, I'm in a piss-poor political mood!
Sorry for the topic diversion, after this recent election, I'm in a piss-poor political mood!
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Not going to a political debate but I have no problems with restrictions in urban areas. Most ordinances just put airguns in the same category as bows and crossbows as far as restrictions within city and urban limits. When I read about some bonehead shooting pets and ducks with crossbows and air rifles it makes it more palatable to have such restrictions.
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I agree. I also have a suppressed .22LR. Yes, they are dirty but cleaning a 10/22 is pretty darn simple.
I don’t see the allure of shooting slugs in my PCPs. Pellets do just fine. All my PCP barrels are choked. From what I read, it seems like a struggle to find a slug that shoots well in a choked barrel. They are expensive as well.
Okay, if we’re talking big bore, yes, slugs are needed to shoot big game with an airgun. I don’t have a big bore airgun but I actually would like to take a whitetail with an airgun. In Texas, this means I need to shoot 215 fpe or more. I honestly struggle with thinking it’s too much of a hassle to use an airgun to hunt big game. Common sense says, “save your money and use a PB like you always have done when hunting deer”. The airgunner in me says, “get an AAA .308 Slayer”!!
I don’t see the allure of shooting slugs in my PCPs. Pellets do just fine. All my PCP barrels are choked. From what I read, it seems like a struggle to find a slug that shoots well in a choked barrel. They are expensive as well.
Okay, if we’re talking big bore, yes, slugs are needed to shoot big game with an airgun. I don’t have a big bore airgun but I actually would like to take a whitetail with an airgun. In Texas, this means I need to shoot 215 fpe or more. I honestly struggle with thinking it’s too much of a hassle to use an airgun to hunt big game. Common sense says, “save your money and use a PB like you always have done when hunting deer”. The airgunner in me says, “get an AAA .308 Slayer”!!
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I am ok with restrictions stating that pellets (or BBs) must be contained within one's own property and not allowed to travel beyond. Still, some bone head will do something stupid. But laws do not prevent bone heads from doing stupid things! So called "law makers" think they can solve all of human's problems just by passing laws. Doesn't work that way.
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There's only a few small bore PCPs without choked barrels and enough power to make it worth while to shoot slugs. Big bore is different. Just think of it in the same category as bow hunting. Although you can still hunt at fairly long range with some powerful big bore airguns.
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I have to agree with you b.d. I live in a country that classes everything from a BB gun to a rimfire or shotgun the same. No silencers on anything. If I want rimfire performance, that's what I'll grab. A .22 long Z or CB cap will still pack more wallop than most .22 PCPs and make less noise than a suppressed airgun, horses for courses, for me.
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It is an entertaining debate, and I will probably try shooting slugs from my Marauder eventually, and may actively shoot them in the future, but, no decisions made yet. Right tool for the right job. Fully agree on that one.
Considering the Diabolo Pellet was designed nearly a 150 years ago, and it's a crappy aerodynamic design, the slugs currently under development do offer the next level of accuracy for air rifles. Are they the right tool for any job? That's a matter of opinion. What's right for one might not be right for the other.
In my case, while I have a couple 10/22's, I don't intend to buy more PB's in the near future, if ever. While it's impractical and expensive, I'd like to find a Crosman MAR177 upper for an AR15. So, for me, impractical might be the right answer.
And, I still hate cleaning powder burners, so for me, airguns all the way.
Considering the Diabolo Pellet was designed nearly a 150 years ago, and it's a crappy aerodynamic design, the slugs currently under development do offer the next level of accuracy for air rifles. Are they the right tool for any job? That's a matter of opinion. What's right for one might not be right for the other.
In my case, while I have a couple 10/22's, I don't intend to buy more PB's in the near future, if ever. While it's impractical and expensive, I'd like to find a Crosman MAR177 upper for an AR15. So, for me, impractical might be the right answer.
And, I still hate cleaning powder burners, so for me, airguns all the way.
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Assuming you can find a slug that will shoot just as accurate as your best pellets...
Far distances
I consider pellets a viable projectile out to say 75y or 100y. If you wanted to stretch your airgun out to say 150y - 200y then I see two advantages: BC & retained energy (hunting).
Near distance
Expansion. I've seen numerous pictures of a few different small caliber slugs expanding far more than any diabolo pellet could dream of. This could be a huge advantage for hunters who worry about pass-throughs or desire a greater energy dump.
Far distances
I consider pellets a viable projectile out to say 75y or 100y. If you wanted to stretch your airgun out to say 150y - 200y then I see two advantages: BC & retained energy (hunting).
Near distance
Expansion. I've seen numerous pictures of a few different small caliber slugs expanding far more than any diabolo pellet could dream of. This could be a huge advantage for hunters who worry about pass-throughs or desire a greater energy dump.
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Ok far distance: Do you think slugs in an airgun are more effective than using a rimfire? Close up: If you shoot any small game with a hollow point slug it will still pass through them the same as a pellet. It might make a bigger hole but will still past through them. There is just not enough mass to stop a fast moving chunk of lead when it hits soft tissue.
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I know it's a personal thing, but logically, a suppressed rimfire offer a lot more advantages than using slugs in airguns. Because ammo is cheaper, the gun plus suppressor are cheaper and it will out perform the air rifle. On the other hand if you don't need the higher BC a pellet will offer a lot more advantages than using slugs in an airgun.
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Oh and yes, I agree fully with you, blackdiesel, for shooting subsonic the CCI standard velocity ammo is very good for the price. Just about as good as SK Plus or Wolf which is much higher.
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Like I said it's just a debate. You are talking to someone who has 28 PCPs and who used to cast slugs to use in airguns so take my arguments with a grain of salt 
But when looking at it from a logical viewpoint it makes more sense to either use pellets or a rimfire instead of slugs. Most people will shoot the same birds and small game that they did with pellets. Either will kill them the same and accuracy with pellets is more than enough to hit vital organs so they are just as lethal as slugs. But there is no logic when you want something with airguns 
But when looking at it from a logical viewpoint it makes more sense to either use pellets or a rimfire instead of slugs. Most people will shoot the same birds and small game that they did with pellets. Either will kill them the same and accuracy with pellets is more than enough to hit vital organs so they are just as lethal as slugs. But there is no logic when you want something with airguns Upvote 0
I agree with everything you have said. I have found a pellets do a good job for it's designed purpose but....I can think of two reasons one would shoot cast bullets out of an airgun.
1. The coolness factor. You might the only person in your town and if not your hold state that has a gun like yours.
2. Your paranoid. Yes you are right a suppressed PB would be a little cheaper then a air powered bullet shooter but I would spend a little bit more if I knew big brother wouldn't stick his nose in my business.
1. The coolness factor. You might the only person in your town and if not your hold state that has a gun like yours.
2. Your paranoid. Yes you are right a suppressed PB would be a little cheaper then a air powered bullet shooter but I would spend a little bit more if I knew big brother wouldn't stick his nose in my business.
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The country is Australia. It's no big deal for me as I already had a firearms licence when they changed the law. They class anything that drives a projectile using expanding gas as a firearm. Semi-auto and pump action rimfires and shotguns are also out but pump action centerfires are OK. Go figure.
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Yeah. Legislators who create laws seldom actually understand the subject that they decide they need to regulate. So the regulations are whacked. You definitely have my sympathies when it comes to firearms freedoms.
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Another thing to consider is time. I've heard it takes months to get your PB suppressor where as you could order slug shooter online and it would be at your doorstep in a few days (if you're lucky).
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I would not shoot .22 slugs as pellets do fine at the normal ranges which is usually LESS than 60 yards for me. If more than that I move up in caliber and effective range.
However,I have two chokeless .25 Marauders ( 1 bullpup swamp/boat gun, 1 Synrod w/ aftermarket moderated and with all the performance mods + regulated to 960 FPS w/39gr slugs) and it fills a niche that the 22RF is just too powerful and penetrative to fill but both are capable of better than the usual accuracy of 95% of rimfires out there. I also like the standardization of finding one projectile and learning it so I don't have to switch ballistics in my mind all the time.
I have several .35 n .45 and none of them have ever shot a pellet and I am satisfied because they do what I want at the ranges I want where the lighter weight pellets would fail at my ranges and usages... I shoot targets to practice for shooting game and pest control. Yes, I could get all my Federal permits and get a silencer but... dealing with the government irks my Libertarian soul!
I will note that I came across an interesting detail that might temper your vehemence about PCP shooters n slugs and insisting instead they shoot PBers if they want to shoot slugs at the air rifle shooting range a couple years ago. The range was cold while the small bore silhouettes were being reset and there were around twenty guys taking a break so to speak when one guy just blurted out that he shot airguns because he was a felon and could not own firearms. (I had seen him at the range many times in the ten years I belonged so his incarceration had to have been a long time before) There was a silence for a minute and then five more guys spoke up and said they were the same. The group consensus evolved in the frank discussion that followed that they had "paid their debt to society" and were just as welcome now as they had been before. I sure am not going to go around asking who might be or not, but now I always keep in the back of my mind that POSSIBLY some shooters (archery, black powder n airguns) are just trying to enjoy the most out of the limited shooting they can do under their restrictions.
P.S. - You might love vanilla and dislike other flavors but how hard would you try to convince me to stop eating mint chocolate chip because it was 'wrong'?
However,I have two chokeless .25 Marauders ( 1 bullpup swamp/boat gun, 1 Synrod w/ aftermarket moderated and with all the performance mods + regulated to 960 FPS w/39gr slugs) and it fills a niche that the 22RF is just too powerful and penetrative to fill but both are capable of better than the usual accuracy of 95% of rimfires out there. I also like the standardization of finding one projectile and learning it so I don't have to switch ballistics in my mind all the time.
I have several .35 n .45 and none of them have ever shot a pellet and I am satisfied because they do what I want at the ranges I want where the lighter weight pellets would fail at my ranges and usages... I shoot targets to practice for shooting game and pest control. Yes, I could get all my Federal permits and get a silencer but... dealing with the government irks my Libertarian soul!
I will note that I came across an interesting detail that might temper your vehemence about PCP shooters n slugs and insisting instead they shoot PBers if they want to shoot slugs at the air rifle shooting range a couple years ago. The range was cold while the small bore silhouettes were being reset and there were around twenty guys taking a break so to speak when one guy just blurted out that he shot airguns because he was a felon and could not own firearms. (I had seen him at the range many times in the ten years I belonged so his incarceration had to have been a long time before) There was a silence for a minute and then five more guys spoke up and said they were the same. The group consensus evolved in the frank discussion that followed that they had "paid their debt to society" and were just as welcome now as they had been before. I sure am not going to go around asking who might be or not, but now I always keep in the back of my mind that POSSIBLY some shooters (archery, black powder n airguns) are just trying to enjoy the most out of the limited shooting they can do under their restrictions.
P.S. - You might love vanilla and dislike other flavors but how hard would you try to convince me to stop eating mint chocolate chip because it was 'wrong'?
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