Daystate RW HP .22, max power 65 ft/lbs?

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JamesD.

JamesD.

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Dec 9, 2015
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NE PA, United States
Specs I read say so.

I don't know if a different programmer or board can up the power or not.
I really want to know the barrel specs. Twist, bore, L&G depth/engagement/bite. Anyone? 
And mating? Barrel swaps? Tensioned shroud that limits me from putting a 26 or 28" barrel on her?

The HP (High Power) Only has a 23" barrel. Now I darn well know a 23-24" barrel can do well over 80ft/lbs as I'm easily doing it from a Condor on a 2500-2750psi fill. I'm tethered & dialed in. Modified slightly, but a factory OEM valve & return spring. 

I've been looking at the Red Wolfs for awhile and I may get one but I'm askin. Is 65ft/lbs absolutely the maximum? If that's the case then I know I would be sending 25.39 .22's or lighter slugs at 950-1072 maximum. 
It would probably be a great rifle for the fast valve alone. 
I would like to see the actual barrel & mating to block. 
It's no huge deal as 65 is manageable. Once you start pushing 34-44 grain projectiles at >950fps you better have a solid platform for repeatable precision. 


I'd be VERY happy with a .22 like The Daystate RW HP that could even send FX hybrid slugs 850-950. Massive power isn't what I'm after from that rifle. Superb accuracy from fast lock time, high BC JSB RD 25.39's is what I would want it for. 


I'll leave massive power to the rock solid Uber custom Scandalous I'm honored to be getting. But I still love .177 pellets from springers at 6ft/lbs to hot .22 Condors that can do 78-103ft/lbs with current 32- 44 grains Griffin RBT's. 


 
You've got lots of questions in there.....

about the barrel mating and barrel swaps, see here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/red-wolf-standard-with-g2-board/page/3/

about 2/3 of the way down there are some pics of how the barrel mates to the breech block. With some machining skills, I can't see any reason why you'd be limited to any specific barrel length, would just likely need to figure out something other than OEM shroud for extended length barrels. But doable.

As for the rest of your questions, I'll defer to others. 
 
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Greatly appreciated. 


I apologize for my writing style. ADHD lol.

The reason I ask if barrel length is limited is because sadly my old EDgun Supermagnum depended on a tensioned shroud that would have needed a longer air reservoir also. I don't mind being tethered so extending the reservoir was not gonna happen when most machinists only charge $40 per hour but AG tuners somehow are way more.

Yeah. Biggest AG related regret in life is not buying a lathe & mill when I had the cash. 
Thank you kindly 
 
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What is the purpose of your mission? To just seek accuracy? At what distances do you want the RD monsters to be accurate?

I've never shot a redwolf, but by all accounts they are very accurate airguns in their stock form.

There's a few things you need to consider, when chasing ultimate precision:

1. Generally it's not advised to break the sound barrier. Having the pellet transition from supersonic to subsonic definitely doesn't bode well for ballistics and stability. In the "powder burner" world, where I come from, projectiles do some weird things when they transition. It's why olympic caliber .22 shooters keep their projectiles under the sound barrier, to prevent that projectile from transitioning. The most accurate .22's are subsonic for that reason. 

2. You focus on fast lock time, which I get to a degree, but keep in mind point #1. Also, good shooting fundamentals make up for slower lock time, and more. You can spend all the money in the world, but you need to make sure your shooting fundamentals are on point. 

3. In the airgun world, we still have some "cheaper" manufacturing practices that cause precision limitations. Manufacturing technology used in making airgun pellets and barrels are not up to the same standard as those found in the "powder burner" world. Barrels are made pretty cheaply, and I strongly suspect that the uniformity of an airgun barrel is nowhere near as precise and uniform as a top tier rifle barrel. This is why some airgun barrels are choked at the end - they can't precisely control the uniformity throughout the entire length of the barrel with their manufacturing processes, so they apply a process of choking the end of the barrel. There's a reason why airgun barrels are ~$100 while top tier rifle barrel blanks are $330+. I also am not sure about twist rates we are using, and how the airgun came up with those rates. I'm not sure if a lot of experimenting was done, or if they came about more arbitrarily. Personally I think the twist rates that are common are too slow for the heavy for caliber pellets like the RD monsters, but more on that below.

4. Speaking of manufacturing processes, pellet manufacturing hasn't really evolved in what - over 100 years? The RD monsters are nice and newer, but they have some flaws. Having that longer skirt moves the CG behind the head, and once that pellet slows down to a certain velocity, it starts to "wallow" around it's CG. Because it's CG is further back, this causes the head of the pellet to "wallow" around in an elliptical pattern, making that pellet become really unstable. This decay in stability will happen very rapidly, as the increase in drag from the head of the pellet wallowing around in an elliptical fashion will exponentially increase. Because of the limitation in point #1, I personally think that we need to be spinning these pellets faster then we currently are for more stability, more speed is only an option to a certain point, then we are back to battling point #1. If you shoot an RD monster far enough, you WILL eventually see it become destabilized. How far that distance is depends on the starting velocity and the environmentals at your shooting location. The shorter skirt pellets don't suffer from the same drastic destabilization that the RD monsters do, through my experiments of shooting 18 grain JSB and 25 grain RD monsters from 100 to 273 yards. Even a faster spin rate will only get you so far, but I hope to find out how that far that is. Pellets are made from soft lead with antiquated manufacturing processes, they deform/damage easily, and they are not ultra precisely uniform - this will hurt in precision. There's some modern manufacturing processes that could be employed to make pellets, as well as more modern materials that would benefit the precision, BC and sturdyness, but that would come at an increase in cost, in which I don't think most would be willing to stomach. 

Personally, I think we are near the ceiling of performance while utilizing the current barrel and pellet manufacturing processes, and there's a lot of opportunity to squeeze out further precision if people have the wallets and the stomachs for it. I briefly toyed with the idea of creating pellets from other manufacturing processes for sale to the public, but I'm not sure if that's fiscally feasible. I don't think many people want to spend more money on pellets. 

Anyways, If you just want to shoot RD monsters at 100 yards, a stock redwolf will be fine. If you want to go further then 100 yards, then at some point you will see what I'm talking about with the RD monsters. 


 
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I would rebarrel a Benjamin Bulldog and hot rod it or buy a Texan for what You want to do. You get to specifically choose your custom barrel what you wanr knowing you're ditching the factory barrels anyway instead of praying the OEM Daystate barrel and electronics works for you due to sheer cost factor. I have 4 Bulldogs for this very reason.
 
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For Mr. Kthomas,

I greatly appreciate your help but I must say I am well aware and I am misunderstood here.

1: I know to never go above 1100 as transonic high drag destabilizing kills the accuracy. I just went by the heaviest .22 pellet & speed needed for the specs of 65ft/lbs.

2: I shoot 6ft/lb to magnum springers so I am aware of perfect form, follow through, consistency in everything from eye placement, trigger/finger placement pull, and the very large tolerance gap in any given tin of pellets.


3: I fully agree on AG barrels & no agreed on specs. 
I'm willing to buy Lilja, Benchmark, and custom Chanlynn barrels. 
I also agree that twists are too slow for the heavier longer pellets and definitely the extremely long Griffins I test.

The entire point on the .22 RD is they're supposed to be the best BR combo for RW at 100. I see this gun is adjustable in milliseconds. Way too complicated for me and I don't care about shot count. Exactly why I run tethered & have a big compressor. 


I'm a horrible writer and can't keep focused with my children around.

So I apologize for the miscommunication, and greatly appreciate your response.

YO, you will see the custom rifle I'm having built. No component gun. Nothing against them. 
 
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I have tested the .30 RW SAFARI with all 4 barrels, swapping barrel and probe takes less than two minutes and there is no need to reporgram the gun!

I got the following on high power;

1) .30, 880FPS with 44g JSB, 850FPS with 50g JSB

2) .25, 1030FPS with 25g KING, 920FPS with 34g MKII JSB

3) .22, 1010FPS with 25g RD JSB, 985FPS with JSB KO SLUG, 915 with 34g JSB BEAST

4) .177, 1080FPS with 16g JSB BEAST, 1000FPS with 18g NIELSEN SLUG

All but the 25g .25 KING shoot superbly through the factory barrels at these speeds, the .25 KING, shoots better at 1000FPS on the MID POWER curve!

I have driven the RW HP in .22 to 78FPE & 96V on the board but I wouldn't reccomend it if you want the gun to last more than a few tins of pellets LOL!
 
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Thats really interesting Bob, because I spoke to Nick at NSA trying to get some 21g .177's, he said they will be on the high speed press in the not so distant future, I was hoping to get around 950 with them.

Can I ask is your .177 barrel the 23.5" poly version from the .177 RW HP with 3.2mm transfer port, or the 18" version?

Just about to get some JSB .25 cal KO's to test in the Redwolf as well ,looking forward to that at 50 & 100 yards.
 
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From the RW HP stock GCU 2.0 on Medium I got 995 FPS with RD Monsters and 960 with .217 JSB KO slugs. Also about 1015 with FX Hybrids. High Power setting was pretty much useless because it was too fast for most. Plus ES at high was poor. 
With HeliBoard on level 12 I get 1065 FPS with RD Monsters. I normally shoot it on level 8 for RD Monsters at 975 FPS and level 9 for JSB KOs at 990 FPS. Also, the FX Hybrids on level 7 at 960 FPS. I have tried the NSA 20.2 in .217 (.2165) and they weren’t good but I’ve been told the .218 (.2175) are very good. 
 
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Spray1Mark.. the barrel is the poly.... a regular HP version with little done to it. I built another unchoked LW with a little ovalized port for more flow but haven't tested it w slugs yet because of time.

I've not had luck with the only 2 test lots of KO's I've tried. I really haven't been chasing the slug use much, either. Happy with pellets , as long as I can get them.

Bob


 
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