Daystate Red Wolf - 25 or 22 cal

[griplife]

Recently a friend introduced me to his pcp air rifle. I have been looking into air rifles for years but never took the plunge. So I immediately bought myself a FX Impact in 25 cal along with a tripod, air compressor, spare 480cc bottle, etc etc. And I am loving it. I am from the center fire benchrest world and compete in that discipline at a World competitive level. What I am enjoying about the air rifle is that it has brought the fun back into shooting for me. 



So now I am buying a Red Wolf Daystate in 22 cal. When I called in to make the purchase I was going to order another 25 but the salesperson convinced me that the 22 is the in thing when considering the Daystate Red Wolf.



i will be using these rifles for plinking, occasional target practice and hopefully some vermin (rats, gophers, pigeons, prairie dogs) hunting at surrounding farms.



Question to Daystate owners and others experienced on the difference between 22 and 25 cal - should I be staying with the 25 or is the 22 a better choice? I believe there is a new JSP 25 grain .22 pellet available that delivers better BC than the 25 grain .25 cal JSP. 



All help is appreciated. I will need to call the supplier tomorrow morning if I decide to switch calibers. 

 

[markmccready]

You must be reading my mind as I’m in the same boat either .22 or .25. I normally go with .22 for hunting and .177 for target work. How ever having shot the Red Wolf in .25 my eyes have been opened from the short time I had the rifle it was great good hitting power a flat power curve. I already own the Wolverine R in .22 and boy oh boy it’s awesome l.

 

[aa_limited]

some 22 rifle barrels don't like the heavy grain .22 cal pellet might love them might not

 

[Spray1Mark]

What I am enjoying about the air rifle is that it has brought the fun back into shooting for me"

I couldn't agree more with this statement from the OP, discovered air again about a year ago and havent looked back.

In the UK .177 reigns supreme, but if you have a license then the choice of calibre is yours and high power levels.

I maintain that because .177 projectiles are used in the Olympics that all the other calibres just arent manufactured to the same high standard regardless.

True benchrest shooting with match rifles will soon show up .22 air pellet consistency VS .177 IMO, here a tin of .22 is a chunk more money than .177, .25 can get horrendously expensive.

Higher power .177 is pretty much a waste of time, but I am seriously considering the HP .22 Redwolf after owning the sub 12FT version, the overall power balance seems better unless you are confronted with hurricane level winds at the range on a regular basis.

Plus as you say a heavy for calibre projectile will usually have a better BC than a normal weight for calibre projectile and at longer ranges this is a definite bonus! you only have to look at your centrefire rigs to see that!

 

[griplife]

I am definitely not going to consider .177". I just need to decide if I need to go 25 or 22.



I notice that the specs reveal that the Red Wolf HP will give 100 shots of 25 cal and 80 on 22 cal. I do not understand that at all. I thought the bigger the bore, the higher the air consumption. That one fact definitely sways me more toward the 25 again. Bigger pellet with higher shot count seems hard to argue with. The only other consideration would then be the potentially improv ed ballistics of the 22 pellet if that is indeed a fact.



Chris

 

[chasdicapua]

From what you said you're going to do with it, I would go with the .22. I believe (you should check) that the Red Wolf in .22 comes with the LW Poly barrel, which shoots the newly designed .22 25gr pellets very well. Shot one last month at 100 yards and was impressed. 

Chas

 

[Spray1Mark]

I am definitely not going to consider .177". I just need to decide if I need to go 25 or 22.



I notice that the specs reveal that the Red Wolf HP will give 100 shots of 25 cal and 80 on 22 cal. I do not understand that at all. I thought the bigger the bore, the higher the air consumption. That one fact definitely sways me more toward the 25 again. Bigger pellet with higher shot count seems hard to argue with. The only other consideration would then be the potentially improv ed ballistics of the 22 pellet if that is indeed a fact.



Of course, I wasn't suggesting you did for one minute.

PCP efficiency is very simple it's force X area, the same force on a larger area is more efficient.

 

[Jlacouturec]

.22 is more versatile caliber.... you have jsb from 13gr all the way up to 34gr!!! in .25 you only have kings and kings heavy!!! HP version comes with the LW polygonal barrels.... a friend of mine bought the .25 cal hp and it shoots very good the 34gr kings heavy.... but doesnt like the 25.4 kings....shooting 34 gr in low power is not a good idea....

 

[FukoChan]

.22 is hilarious. My RedWolf in .22 is much quieter than my FX Impact .25. Plus you get more shots. Think about it, you aren't going to carry this thing around to go hunting on long journeys due to the nature of owning a laminate stock. Its more suited for squirrel destruction in your personal backyard and/or paper punching at 50-100 yards. You can go further of course with the heavies since the .22 Jumbo Beast ballistic coefficient is extremely good. Mine is producing 50 ft. lbs with the .22 so you have plenty of power in the .22 frame.



Also im slinging standard 18.13 gr. JSBs @ 890 FPS!! ON LOW power!!!!

Found out the gun didn't really like the JSB 18.13s and preferred the heavier .22s jsbs.

Edit: I just found out you have a impact in.25. No sense in having two.25 guns.

 

[Maineiac]

I am definitely not going to consider .177". I just need to decide if I need to go 25 or 22.



I notice that the specs reveal that the Red Wolf HP will give 100 shots of 25 cal and 80 on 22 cal. I do not understand that at all. I thought the bigger the bore, the higher the air consumption. That one fact definitely sways me more toward the 25 again. Bigger pellet with higher shot count seems hard to argue with. The only other consideration would then be the potentially improv ed ballistics of the 22 pellet if that is indeed a fact.



Chris

That’s because Daystate tests the HP with the largest .22 JSB on high power . The 33 grain I think it is. You’ll get a ton more shots with the 25 grain on medium and 150+ shots with 18 grain on low.

 

[Hookster]

With the improved ballistics of the .22cal 25gr redesigned JSBs I shoot much better in wind over my 25cal with 25gr JSBs. And completely destroy the 18.1JSBs. Hitting sparrows this weekend with a 1.5 mil hold for wind, while the 18.1s needed 5mils of hold at same range. This was not a surprise to me seeing how the 22cal 25gr were going 973fps and the 18.1s are doing 870fps. Just nice to not have to worry about wind as much as before. 

 

[LTU-013]

I would go .25 - it's way less affected by wind, because of heavier pellets. Don't forget you always can shoot at low power still get accuracy and high shot count and enough power to knock small animals. If you see something bigger just go medium or high power without changing pellets. I don't know why Daystate shows such a low shot count for Redwolf. Even Pulsar with a smaller cylinder at low power gets almost 200 shots. Very good review about shot count for Pulsar in .25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51c0bMaRzqY

 

[griplife]

Thank you for the advice. I decided to go 9th the 22. It appears that the ballistics from the 33 grain Beast are pretty impressive showing good down range energy and less wind drift. Hope that is in fact the case. 

My rifle arrives Friday so it will be fun to test this weekend and see how it compares with my FX Impact in .25 cal.

 

[bubblerboy64]

I thought I'd pump this tread and ask you if you have any more thoughts in the 22 vs 25 discussion after having your Red Wolf HP for a time. I have a Red Wolf walnut in 22 and am sorta lusting after a HP. My interest is in performance beyond 50 yards . I'd love to see some long range performance statistics of both rifles. Having a Daystate in 22 sorta tilts me toward the 25 but if the 22 groups better that would be the gun to buy. Anyone out there able to compare apples to apples. ( I did run this past AOA haven't heard from them as yet)

 

[elh0102]

I am getting a Red Wolf HP in .22, should have it this week. The HP version comes with the LW poly barrel, and it is reported to shoot heavy stuff very well. I expect a good case can be made in favor of the .25 for longer distances or hunting. I chose the .22 simply because I have several others, and I don't want to get involved in another inventory of pellets. I think the Red Wolf HP, on low, will shoot 18's, and maybe 16's very well, and gives a shot count of 180 or so, so I can fill it and forget it for a while. I have a Regal that shoots 16's at around 850, and I've killed a bunch of squirrels with it. The RW HP, even on low, will be more powerful. For real hunting (not back yard pests), I can use heavy pellets and high power, should be fun. I have used .22 rimfire with sub-sonic ammo for years squirrel hunting, and it will be interesting to see how the high power air rifle will perform in comparison. 

 

[ShootistX]

. I have used .22 rimfire with sub-sonic ammo for years squirrel hunting, and it will be interesting to see how the high power air rifle will perform in comparison.

That will depend on the rimfire itself. The ballistic coefficient of a .22 rimfire shooting something like Wolf target is about .125. This is much higher than a pellet.

It is FAR FAR less effected by wind and drag. On a calm day the airgun has a good chance of equaling or exceeding the accuracy of the rimfire at 50 and inside 50. The further out you go the Rimfire will likely take over depending on the gun itself and shooters skill. Now all of this depends on the Rimfire and its capabilities. For instance, the Rimfire pictured below ( Cooper Model 57M) will group .25 of an inch at 50 yards with Wolf target ammo, regularly, even in slight wind. It sports a Figured French walnut stock, Heavy fluted barrel, pillar bedded and glassed, with a Jard 2 ounce trigger. It is phenomenal off sand bags or a high end rest and will utterly shred a Daystate Red Wolf or FX Crown to pieces. The gun will set you back about 2600,00. This includes bases but no rings and no Jard Trigger. So you're up to 2800.00 - 2900.00 before optics. On a calm day the Airguns will hold their own and sometimes exceed, albeit splitting hairs. Introduce any variables at all, and the Rimfire will jump ahead by leaps and bounds, exponentially by orders of magnitude. On a good day Top quality airguns are shooting exceptionally well at 100 yards with a group size of 1.25 inches, and sometimes under 1 moa. The gun below,,,,,,,.7's and under, routinely with some exceptional .4' and 5's mixed in on good days and it's still carrying a velocity of about 940 fps and right at 80Foot pounds of energy at 100 yards.

Honestly I'm more into Airguns. No noise. less recoil. They are beautiful, especially the red wolf. I want one too. But as Rimfires go.......THIS. It is outstanding. It would be very hard for an Airgun to compete in overall inherent accuracy.

 

[sonny]

ShootistX... thats a beautiful rimfire

 

[ShootistX]

Thank you Sonny. I bought the gun almost 5 years ago. January 20, 2019 will make 5 years.I doubt that it has 1000 rounds through it.

 

[elh0102]

ShootistX, your comments are right on. My primary rimfire is an Anschutz 54.18 MSR in a McMillan silhouette stock, and it shoots great. I can lob sub-sonic ammo in a squirrel's head all day at well over 50 yards. I don't drag it through the woods though. It is heavy, and, since that rifle has been out of production and become very sought after, it is one I want to keep in pristine condition. My primary squirrel killer is a Kidd Super Grade. It has a two-stage trigger that is fantastic, and shoots about as well from the bench as the Anschutz. Speaking of which, you mentioned consistent sub .25" 50 yard groups from your Cooper. I used to do a lot of rimfire bench rest competition with a couple of high-dollar custom rifles. All I can say, if you can produce sub .25" aggregates from your Cooper, you're in the wrong line of work!

 

[ShootistX]

Not mine......but done with the same rifle. .134 average. Coopers accuracy guarantee when you buy these rifles is, .25 at 50 yards.