DAYSTATE PLUS FX AND THEIR OUTLOOK AS COMPANIES (NOT JUST THEIR GUNS).

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Another area I feel the two companies vary and I don’t mean to sound like I’m anti Daystate here. Like I said I really love my RedWolf.

When FX come up with a new barrel system or regulator ect they don’t forget those who have already invested in there product. Earlier models are often upgradable and they will mention that on the release of the new product. They will also explain if it was not possible to upgrade older models. They will occasionally retrofit parts at a discount to keep customers happy

Daystate introduced there new Safari very high power RedWolf which is great. It has 20% more power than the standard hp RedWolf. Now they have sold a lot of expensive hp RedWolfs to customers and I imagine many will feel a bit disappointed. There focus is immediately on new sales. No mention of whether the older model can be up dated. I have seen a post here on AGN already from a guy who had just got his RedWolf and is indeed feeling let down.

You may have to wait longer for an FX product to hit the shelves but at least you know it’s coming and you can decide to buy what is available now or wait. That tends to ease customers into a new model and not upset people When Matt Dubber does his reviews on his new Impact X he always remembers to mention how much he still loves his original Impact I think that’s very deliberate to not alienate those who have the early model I’m sure that strengthens customer loyalty to the brand


 
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I don't necessarily consider new products to be disadvantageous to current owners. Consider high performance cars. Every new generation has desirable features that are not found in the previous generation, and usually are not available as an upgrade. Does it devalue the current product, yes, usually. It also makes the new one more popular. But, there usually remains an active market for the outdated product, albeit at a lower price. Guess it's just a business fundamental, not many products can remain viable without change. It's sort of like the old joke about being in the water after your boat sinks; move forward with the hope of survival, or, do nothing and die. The exception in most product markets is the focused, specialty product that serves a small, but reliable market segment. In the air gun world, maybe RAW is an example. Although Martin has incorporated a HP version, and some different barrel options are available, the basic gun remains a dinosaur in the current market. But, few would argue that the newer, feature-laden rifles do the basic job of putting pellets where aimed any better, or in any more reliable manner. These companies generally survive, as long as the owners are satisfied with doing what they are doing. But, like all of us, the life span is limited. Companies like Daystate and FX can't survive on a small, semi-custom market. 
 
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Was told that all CNC production for FX is a separate owned company housed in house at FX and while not owned by FX they were the only costumer. Do not know that it makes any difference and unless someone has inside information we are just speculating. Also there are two separate countries of manufacture involved with different regulations. One thing is for sure. Both companies have been around and both have a track record of success. I believe FX is by far the most progressive and aggressive of the two. We do own guns from each company. sylvan
 
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The car analogy is a good one. So let’s take it a little further. For 40 years Daystate has been producing Airguns. For much of that time the focus has been the UK domestic market. The sub 12fpe market. So there prestige airguns are akin to making a beautiful car but limited to 80 horsepower. So what separates these different models. Not the engine. There all the same 80 horsepower. So the focus becomes the build quality and beauty of the gun. Like a Rolex watch. All watched tell the time but people want the Rolex. Many UK airguners have collections of beautiful Daystate rifles all sub 12fpe. And you don’t mess with a Rolex you keep it original because that’s where it’s value lies. Your son may well inherit it! This is the culture of Daystate. 

Thats why these limited editions keep popping up. There for the UK market. The Rolex collectors! Absolutely no performance advantages. And I feel it’s that culture that may leave the performance based buyer in the US and other high power markets feeling let down when a new higher performance model is announced. There attitude is like they have just produced another model like they always have but now the engine is different and bigger but there not thinking about the guy who yesterday bought the old model. 

In the car industry there is always some lead time into a new model. You usually no it’s coming and the model still on the showroom floors is often discounted. It keeps customers happy to get a bargain on the older model. Not Daystate. There stuck in there past where they feel they have just rolled out another 80hp car so no one gets offended because there not use to performance being an issue. 
 
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Seems both business models work and they both make great rifles. I have a mixture mainly FX and 3 Daystates. FX gives me more problems and poor support and Daystate no trouble until i tried programming RW HP. My own mistakes but a great guy from DOC uk factory talked me through it so perfect again better then original. My next plan is to buy there Safari from AOA soon no programming this time :) It is good that consumers can receive quality support from the uk factory from wherever you live around the world. Its sad FX cannot do same. Daystate might not be so quick to announce new things like FX but better to take it slow sometimes.

I have seen Tony Beles in many videos for Daystate. He is very knowledgable with old Daystate rifles and helped my son in law with a problem PH6. He is not managing director office lady told me is advertising marketing employee so must have some insight to what might be next . I hope next year to visit London uk hope to see Daystate factory. AOA did a great video when in uk but cannot find it now. 
 
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Seems both business models work and they both make great rifles. I have a mixture mainly FX and 3 Daystates. FX gives me more problems and poor support and Daystate no trouble until i tried programming RW HP. My own mistakes but a great guy from DOC uk factory talked me through it so perfect again better then original. My next plan is to buy there Safari from AOA soon no programming this time :) It is good that consumers can receive quality support from the uk factory from wherever you live around the world. Its sad FX cannot do same. Daystate might not be so quick to announce new things like FX but better to take it slow sometimes.

I have seen Tony Beles in many videos for Daystate. He is very knowledgable with old Daystate rifles and helped my son in law with a problem PH6. He is not managing director office lady told me is advertising marketing employee so must have some insight to what might be next . I hope next year to visit London uk hope to see Daystate factory. AOA did a great video when in uk but cannot find it now.
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I don't own either brand. But I plan to own both and view both as excellent makes.
 
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Seems both business models work and they both make great rifles. I have a mixture mainly FX and 3 Daystates. FX gives me more problems and poor support and Daystate no trouble until i tried programming RW HP. My own mistakes but a great guy from DOC uk factory talked me through it so perfect again better then original. My next plan is to buy there Safari from AOA soon no programming this time :) It is good that consumers can receive quality support from the uk factory from wherever you live around the world. Its sad FX cannot do same. Daystate might not be so quick to announce new things like FX but better to take it slow sometimes.

I have seen Tony Beles in many videos for Daystate. He is very knowledgable with old Daystate rifles and helped my son in law with a problem PH6. He is not managing director office lady told me is advertising marketing employee so must have some insight to what might be next . I hope next year to visit London uk hope to see Daystate factory. AOA did a great video when in uk but cannot find it now.
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With all due respect, Mike, I beg to differ with your assessment of FX's customer support. FX has an outfit in Wilmington, NC -- their phone number is 866-639-0772 -- to handle any product-related issues that may arise.

Monday-Friday during business hours you may call them and even speak to their chief technician, Ernest Rowe, about any concerns you may have about FX rifles. I have personally spoken to Mr. Rowe on at least two occasions. Mr. Rowe was quite patient, talking me through the installation of a kit that I had purchased from FXUSA. The service I received from FXUSA has been topnotch. The receptionists and the technicians are always polite and helpful. I would recommend them to family and friends without hesitation.


 
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Thank you 2manyAirGunz for your personal experience recommendation. Very greatful and appreciative. Have not spoken with Mr Rowe before but certainly will with any other issues thank you. His number now in my phone. I have only shared my own experience so far. Not heard of fxusa before is that FX direct help center and better then shop. I will share with others your positive experience. Not decided of next FX purchase yet but will remember to call Mr Rowe at AOA next time thank you. Have just joined this website and very happy meet you for quick help. Thank you sir
 
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I'm beginning to regret even bothering to respond to "Mike747"'s post. Mike apparently is a brand new forum member -- just signed up today in fact. Mike's post above subtly criticizing FX, happens to be Mike747's sole offering to date.

Hmmmmm?😏
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Disappointed criticizing FX sharing my experience. Pleased you helped me with contact for help when needed then imply i am idiot because new to website. My youngest next to me say you FX staff not liking me because i say something is disappointing of FX. I think you help me then make me look dumb. Disappointed manufactuers use these websites tactics to make us look like idiots. 
 
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I have now been in the PCP hobby for a little over 4 years. Have shot in two EBRs and will shoot RMAC in June. My first PCP was a Daystate Wolverine B in .22. My goodness, did that rifle ever serve well to set the hook in this ol' boy! Next, good ol' Ted and Matt, through their videos sold me on the Impact and I was on the phone to AOA with the required deposit and waited 4 months for delivery. I've since acquired a Streamline in. 22, a Compatto in .17, and a Boss laminate. So, I am fortunate to own both company's products. To their competition and business practices, I can't really speak. What I have observed though, is a recent polarization from the two big dealers here in the US. One seems to be fully embracing and promoting Daystate and the other appears to be arms around FX to the max. Not sure what happened there. Finally, until the last EBR, I was convinced FX had the competition world wrapped up. I was very happy to witness Daystate / Brocock take that competition by storm. So...strictly as a consumer, I'd have to say it just doesn't get any better than this. What will be my next rifle? I wish I could say. There are too many choices on both sides and way too little money. But that damned hook is still set!
 
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From a manufacturing point of view cnc machines in-house or outsourced is a business decision. Cnc machining gives you great repeatability on your parts but the quality comes from your quality control procedures. Cnc machines still need to be tweaked to keep the product within the design tolerances. The design tolerances also have an affect on your product costs as higher tolerances can require different machining processes, resulting in higher costs. I expect a lot of the new product development is done as one-offs in the prototype stage. This isn't really affected by your production machines in-house or outside as they both have some machining capabilities in-house.
 
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