Daystate Daystate Alpha/Delta Wolf groups, tunes and photos.

Very interesting @engfred, like me, you obviously feel a need to improve on the STD design of most guns, There is a lot crammed into the shroud on the AW/DW ! so i may have a look into trying to improve that myself as mine is certainly not as accurate, but I think the barrel is still the main culprit.
The pin probe for the .177 AW is definitely needed, I know DS used one on the .22 not sure about the larger calibres, can't figure out quite why the did that.

My AW is a June 23 gun not sure which chrono carrier it has but it's definitely polymer of some sort.

This is my gen 1 compared to the original holder without airstripper


Compare original left and my DIY Right .jpg



This is the first Daystate model in Polymer without airstripper at the bottom and the newer Daystate Aluminium type with integrated Airstripper at the top, so still black colour. The first one has got four holes venting to the shroud - but only one large center hole meaning no air stripping.
First Daystate models in Polymer and the newer Daystate Aluminium type with Airstripper - so S...jpg


I Bet your AW has got the aluminium type with integrated airstripper.
But I seen one original Chronograph holder from Daystate that where the air- stripper covers half of the hole like above. And a second newer version where the airstripper edge is further forward - so that the large vent holes are completely free. At least I could loosen the unit with a large round screw driver through the holes. On the other older model I had to use a much smaller screw driver due to the airstripper was on the Chronograph holder on the photo above. But I don't know if the air stripper cone is fixed og it might be adjustable?

But Compared to my P.... Red unit the original looks booooooorriiiiing

20250119_102820.jpg
 
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Can I ask what the reason for the incorporated internal stripper? Did you have accuracy problems with the std setup?

I found that if I added a moderator to the STD shroud I got POI shift and not through clipping which lead me to develop my silenced over shroud which solved my problem, I also ended up making a barrel clamp after talking to an Indian gentleman who made one and this was before Daystate decided to make their own however while they are probably worth it with FAC and a long barrel it's not worth it for the sub 12 version.
I was comparing with Sorens updated DW and his newer AW that just did a better job. I also added the Barrel clamp system a 4-6 weeks ago and that gave a lot of stability to the rifle - It is rock solid now.

I also remembered that Daystate changed O-ring size on the Aluminium Chronograph holders with air stripper and on one the first gen the O-rings were too small.
The circuit board was covered in lead dust after shooting some 1000s of pellets and slugs. And when I removed the shroud it was not tight at all.
The Newer ones has got deeper o-ring groves and a 2mm or 2.2 mm thick O-ring.
It could be your shroud is not properly supported on the Chronograph holder.

If you want you can have my gen. 2 Chronograph holder / air stripper that works fine and is a direct 1:1 replacement if you will pay the freight cost to UK. Then you can test by yourselves.

In the future all my Chronograph holders has to be in REDTUBE Red edition.

Best regards from Denmark
 
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Thanks for sharing your work here, @engfred...

I went a similar direction after a lot of testing and my final version is this :
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20220120_150530.jpg

I used the factory glass tube and retaining nut plus created a screw in air stripper nut so I could experiment with various orifices for different calibers and projectiles... It was a lot of setup and machining time on my manual machines. The difference is pretty dramatic...
I have 3 different factory chrono frame versions as they tried to address our findings and concerns but still stuffing a lot of air into that little glass tube so gains in accuracy were inadequate for me. Another attempt at stripping more air was a pressed in orifice in the newest frames where mine is threaded in... it seemed to help...
I don't have a 3d printer so mine was machined..
Good work, anyway...☺👍
Bob
 
Hmmmm .... Yes and no and hhhmmm.
When you make your own custom pellet og slug setting like as an example Zan 20 gr slugs.
You need to prepare to get three minimum 3 slug speeds. This is the maximum speed you can shoot them. The lowest interesting speed you will shoot the slug and minimum one speed in the middle of the minimum or maximum.

1. I set the required Pressure - (In my DW without the ultrafire valve I will need 195 bar to get even close to the max. speed)
2. Then i in advanced mode test shoot and find a Dwell time (or pulse value) together with voltage to get the maximum speed i can get.
Write down the achieved Speed - Pulse and Voltage.

Then I figure there is probably no idea in testing lower as 750 fps with 20 gr slugs.

3 I test shoot again in advance and find a Pulse / Voltage combination that is close to 750 fps.
Write all numbers down.

4 I test shoot the to find 3 to 10 speeds in between the min and maximum speeds.
For all these speeds I write down the Pulse / voltage.

5 Then I connect the rifle to the Daystate programmer and load the current settings.
Go to the factory Tab and under caliber i select .177 and 23" barrel.
Then I add now a new setting called "ZAN 20 gr."

6 I now select insert rows - I choose as example 10 rows. (The minimum for the automatic to work are 3 rows)

7 In these rows - I enter the data I collected from the test shooting starting by the Maximum speed at the top.
You can always delete. add rows before and after a row.

8 You will have to enter Actual pressure (The pressure you used when test shooting) also Optimal pressure and minimum pressure. Minimum pressure i guess is where the pressure is too low to reach the speed so it is more testing or a guess.
Optimal pressure is like for a mechanical rifle the the pressure for a speed where you balance accuracy and air consumption. like a little above the lowest pressure where you can get the wanted speed.

9 When all these informations are entered you can save your new setting to the rifle by pressing write,

Save your new rifle setting as a file with a revision note.

10 now you can take you rifle to the shooting range and start shooting with the Zan 20 gr. settings in factory mode.
Chose any speed within your minimum and maximum tested speed like 880 fps. Shoot 3 to 4 shots and its a "home run"
Now if you chose any speed you did not test in your chart like 770 fps, the rifle will calculate and guess the settings based on the closest lower and higher speed.
When it shoots it corrects itself until another "home run" :)
When you continue to shoot more and it shoots 4 shots with a maximum variation of +/- 4 fps - It will add a line in your table with the reached settings.
The new added line in your settings will look like the ones you made from scratch with Pressure, Opt. Press. Min Press. Pulse, and Voltage and it will be saved under your custom made setting ZAN 20. You can tell the rows added by your rifle since they have a "Target" symbol on the tabs row number.
This means that if you chose the same speed next time it will be correct from the first shot. More rows with collected data will be added if you change speeds. Choosing another speed makes it do new corrections until the speed is reached by itself - just as shown in the videos.

So to your multi question - if i change any parameters it will correct itself.
Yes but then if using the same like 13.42 and now shoots JSB 10.34 gr. pellets it starts correcting for all settings every time. In my head it is just a mess.
If you have dedicated settings for each projectiles, it remembers all stored settings and will be ready from first shot.

I will explain in the video too - But now the chickens are out - Its not that difficult - and I still do not know why the Daystate shipped without at least the 20-30 most used slugs and pellets in each caliber.

Best regards from Denmark.

Soren and I will show how this is done in a video shortly - be patient

@engfred made a great tutorial regarding adding factory tunes to DW/AW
He also posted a tutorial to be downloaded but unfortunately link doesn't work, at least for me.

I'm not certain if I got this correctly but is all the process done on the same reg pressure setting?

This is the process as @engfred wrote it with my ignorant comments so, please, help me understand
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. I set the required Pressure - (In my DW without the ultrafire valve I will need 195 bar to get even close to the max. speed)
2. Then i in advanced mode test shoot and find a Dwell time (or pulse value) together with voltage to get the maximum speed i can get.
Write down the achieved Speed - Pulse and Voltage.
Then I figure there is probably no idea in testing lower as 750 fps with 20 gr slugs.

Do I lower the reg pressure before going to step 3 or do I stay on the reg pressure I needed for max FPS in step 1?
So, for step 3, do I only change pulse and voltage or pulse, voltage and reg pressure keeping in mind the rule "minimum pressure required for the selected speed +5 bars"?

3 I test shoot again in advance and find a Pulse / Voltage combination that is close to 750 fps.
Write all numbers down.

Do I change the reg pressure when finding these 3 to 10 speeds in between min and max speeds?
In essence same question as above?

4 I test shoot the to find 3 to 10 speeds in between the min and maximum speeds.
For all these speeds I write down the Pulse / voltage.
5 Then I connect the rifle to the Daystate programmer and load the current settings.
Go to the factory Tab and under caliber i select .177 and 23" barrel.
Then I add now a new setting called "ZAN 20 gr."
6 I now select insert rows - I choose as example 10 rows. (The minimum for the automatic to work are 3 rows)
7 In these rows - I enter the data I collected from the test shooting starting by the Maximum speed at the top.
You can always delete. add rows before and after a row.
8 You will have to enter Actual pressure (The pressure you used when test shooting) also Optimal pressure and minimum pressure. Minimum pressure i guess is where the pressure is too low to reach the speed so it is more testing or a guess.
Optimal pressure is like for a mechanical rifle the the pressure for a speed where you balance accuracy and air consumption. like a little above the lowest pressure where you can get the wanted speed.
9 When all these informations are entered you can save your new setting to the rifle by pressing write,

Save your new rifle setting as a file with a revision note.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have .25 so only 3 pellet weights were programmed from the factory and those are actually the most used but I was wondering if factory programs could be "optimized" by entering actual reg pressures needed and not pressures 40-60 bars over the actual needed pressure

For instance, my tables state that I need 170 bar for most speeds for 25.39 grain pellet and actually optimum and minimum are much lower but rifle is always in red warning regarding pressure.
I know it's safe to ignore it but never the less, it annoying.

Thanks,
Walt
 

@engfred made a great tutorial regarding adding factory tunes to DW/AW
He also posted a tutorial to be downloaded but unfortunately link doesn't work, at least for me.

I'm not certain if I got this correctly but is all the process done on the same reg pressure setting?

This is the process as @engfred wrote it with my ignorant comments so, please, help me understand
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1. I set the required Pressure - (In my DW without the ultrafire valve I will need 195 bar to get even close to the max. speed)
2. Then i in advanced mode test shoot and find a Dwell time (or pulse value) together with voltage to get the maximum speed i can get.
Write down the achieved Speed - Pulse and Voltage.
Then I figure there is probably no idea in testing lower as 750 fps with 20 gr slugs.

Do I lower the reg pressure before going to step 3 or do I stay on the reg pressure I needed for max FPS in step 1?
So, for step 3, do I only change pulse and voltage or pulse, voltage and reg pressure keeping in mind the rule "minimum pressure required for the selected speed +5 bars"?

3 I test shoot again in advance and find a Pulse / Voltage combination that is close to 750 fps.
Write all numbers down.

Do I change the reg pressure when finding these 3 to 10 speeds in between min and max speeds?
In essence same question as above?

4 I test shoot the to find 3 to 10 speeds in between the min and maximum speeds.
For all these speeds I write down the Pulse / voltage.
5 Then I connect the rifle to the Daystate programmer and load the current settings.
Go to the factory Tab and under caliber i select .177 and 23" barrel.
Then I add now a new setting called "ZAN 20 gr."
6 I now select insert rows - I choose as example 10 rows. (The minimum for the automatic to work are 3 rows)
7 In these rows - I enter the data I collected from the test shooting starting by the Maximum speed at the top.
You can always delete. add rows before and after a row.
8 You will have to enter Actual pressure (The pressure you used when test shooting) also Optimal pressure and minimum pressure. Minimum pressure i guess is where the pressure is too low to reach the speed so it is more testing or a guess.
Optimal pressure is like for a mechanical rifle the the pressure for a speed where you balance accuracy and air consumption. like a little above the lowest pressure where you can get the wanted speed.
9 When all these informations are entered you can save your new setting to the rifle by pressing write,

Save your new rifle setting as a file with a revision note.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have .25 so only 3 pellet weights were programmed from the factory and those are actually the most used but I was wondering if factory programs could be "optimized" by entering actual reg pressures needed and not pressures 40-60 bars over the actual needed pressure

For instance, my tables state that I need 170 bar for most speeds for 25.39 grain pellet and actually optimum and minimum are much lower but rifle is always in red warning regarding pressure.
I know it's safe to ignore it but never the less, it annoying.

Thanks,
Walt
No idea about those processes described but what I have found with mine is one reg pressure for all isn’t optimum. I started with mine at 150 bar. Could get 33.95 to just below 900 and 29 grain a little over 900 both with great shot to shot speed consistency on either custom tune or factory find the speed tune. However, at this reg pressure the 25.39 just weren’t that consistent speed wise. I think the reg pressure was just too high. Currently I have the reg around 125-127 bar. With this setting I can run both the 25.39 and 29 very consistently. The 33.95 only run in the 840’s at this pressure so I shoot them out of a different gun. The platform definitely seems more forgiving than many mechanical guns but I’ve found you still need to optimize reg pressure to projectile weight for consistency.
I just have never liked running a lot more reg than needed for what I’m doing. Many of the suggested reg pressures in the daystate software are much higher than actually needed to achieve the desired speed. I do not have the ultra valve either.
 
Sorry Guys, Here is a fresh link.....

Download link to folder: Delta-AlphaWolf

Again I cannot say how the rifles will perform in other calibers than .177...
But my Deltawolf .177 HP rifle is set to 158 bar - and it shoots everything from 8.44 gr up to 20 gr. very well with this pressure.
It out performs my new FX Impact M4 Sniper .177 any day. I am so used to be able to shoot everything with my Deltawolf - only changing the Factory mode programs. My new M4 sniper shoots fine - but is so power full that even at 50 bar at the regulator Power wheel and micro adjuster, it shoots 10 grain pellets too hot. So plinking in my garden is then possible with JSB Monsters.... Accuracy wise Delta Wolf is beating my M4 in many ways. First its less hold sensible. And somehow - the side wind pushes the slugs more up or down on the M4 compared with the DW. And the easiest part is no fight and fine tuning when i start to shoot. Its loading magazines with todays choice of pellets or slug. And then shoot - bang on the target.
 
Sorry Guys, Here is a fresh link.....

Thanks much.

I'm shooting my Alpha Wolf with in 177 and planning to use it for US HFT.

I also have an Impact M3, but could never get groups I thought were acceptably tight in 177. I bought the Alpha Wolf hoping to improve on those.

I took a shot at making my own tables for 13.43's and 10.3's near the end of last summer but didn't really get a chance to fully work them out. Honestly, I never figured out any logic for setting the second and third pressure columns in those tables, so I just kind of just guessed. That aside, I wasn't really sure what pressure made the most sense as a starting point.

I shot all 22s with the M3 before thinking I'd try out HFT. That kind of spoiled me for what to expect for grouping. Shooting 1 inch groups using 22 15.89s at 50 yards at 915 FPS is pretty easy on the M3. Putting a 177 barrel on it and reducing power to 20 FPE turned out to be quite a different story.

I just put your 13.43 monsters tuning into my Alpha Wolf and I'll see how it goes. For whatever reason I had been running my reg pressure around 115 as opposed to your 159. I'm sure somebody suggested that lower reg pressure to me last year.

Thanks for the tables, I'll post back after trying them out.
 
Thanks much.

I'm shooting my Alpha Wolf with in 177 and planning to use it for US HFT.

I also have an Impact M3, but could never get groups I thought were acceptably tight in 177. I bought the Alpha Wolf hoping to improve on those.

I took a shot at making my own tables for 13.43's and 10.3's near the end of last summer but didn't really get a chance to fully work them out. Honestly, I never figured out any logic for setting the second and third pressure columns in those tables, so I just kind of just guessed. That aside, I wasn't really sure what pressure made the most sense as a starting point.

I shot all 22s with the M3 before thinking I'd try out HFT. That kind of spoiled me for what to expect for grouping. Shooting 1 inch groups using 22 15.89s at 50 yards at 915 FPS is pretty easy on the M3. Putting a 177 barrel on it and reducing power to 20 FPE turned out to be quite a different story.

I just put your 13.43 monsters tuning into my Alpha Wolf and I'll see how it goes. For whatever reason I had been running my reg pressure around 115 as opposed to your 159. I'm sure somebody suggested that lower reg pressure to me last year.

Thanks for the tables, I'll post back after trying them out.
For FT - be aware that the alpha and delta can have a first shot with a small drop in fps on a fixed volt/pulse setting. This occures when the rifle has been off and are turned on again. On my delta - if I shoot a 13.43g at 160b - 66v 2100pulse - the first shot is 20-30fps (890fps) lower than the following shots (920fps). When rifle turns off and I turn it on again - the same happens. I have not found out the reason yet. You should check if you have the same issue since its bad for accuracy on that first shot. If that first shot counts in the competition you have a bad first shot
 
Thanks much.

I'm shooting my Alpha Wolf with in 177 and planning to use it for US HFT.

I also have an Impact M3, but could never get groups I thought were acceptably tight in 177. I bought the Alpha Wolf hoping to improve on those.

I took a shot at making my own tables for 13.43's and 10.3's near the end of last summer but didn't really get a chance to fully work them out. Honestly, I never figured out any logic for setting the second and third pressure columns in those tables, so I just kind of just guessed. That aside, I wasn't really sure what pressure made the most sense as a starting point.

I shot all 22s with the M3 before thinking I'd try out HFT. That kind of spoiled me for what to expect for grouping. Shooting 1 inch groups using 22 15.89s at 50 yards at 915 FPS is pretty easy on the M3. Putting a 177 barrel on it and reducing power to 20 FPE turned out to be quite a different story.

I just put your 13.43 monsters tuning into my Alpha Wolf and I'll see how it goes. For whatever reason I had been running my reg pressure around 115 as opposed to your 159. I'm sure somebody suggested that lower reg pressure to me last year.

Thanks for the tables, I'll post back after trying them out.
Nice to hear you got updated....

Forget about all the pressure talk that comes from people with mechanical rifle experience. Just set the pressure high enough so you can shoot the max. fpe you need.
That a certain pressure is needed to obtain accuracy is bull poop.
That statement is surely killed in a Daystate Redwolf because it has no regulator at all.
I have a redwolf and it is trouble free, untouch and the most reliable and accurate rifle i own - both with pellets and slugs.
Shooting pressure is what is in the bottle and its a laser - even shooting JSB 8.44 its just unbelievable.
My favorite is that i made a 7 fpe program for shooting H&N Baracuda FT pellets at 24 meters. in the garden.
My Redwolf is fitted with a 700 cc bottle and I can with laser accuracy shoot one tin of 500 pcs. HN Baracuda Ft before i think its time topping up the pressure in the rifle.

The electronic rifles has the advantages that they can send a light weight hammer very light at the valve.
But the exact same coil can send the light hammer to hit the valve hard too.

When i take my Redwolf out of the box and want to shoot 100 meter with JSB Knockouts 13,43 gr slugs, I just select prg. 9 and I know the first shot will be within 10 mm from where I aimed. Just because everything is well designed, rock solid and very simple technology.

It took a lot of fighting and slight modifications to get my DW to shoot as good as the redwolf.
The DW is with barrel clamp - an equally stabile rifle compared to my RW.
It has less power compared to the RW - but still shoots everything up to 20 gr. slugs perfect.

The redwolf has huge power reserve and that is despite only a ø3.5 mm transfer port hole into the barrel.
But anyway shooting 20 gr- slugs is the maximum power I need.
 
For FT - be aware that the alpha and delta can have a first shot with a small drop in fps on a fixed volt/pulse setting. This occures when the rifle has been off and are turned on again. On my delta - if I shoot a 13.43g at 160b - 66v 2100pulse - the first shot is 20-30fps (890fps) lower than the following shots (920fps). When rifle turns off and I turn it on again - the same happens. I have not found out the reason yet. You should check if you have the same issue since its bad for accuracy on that first shot. If that first shot counts in the competition you have a bad first shot
Hi Seb. The problem is probably that the valve is balanced and by that more sensitive to o-ring sticking.
A traditional valve have the pressure in plenum to help keeping the valve closed. So when the o-ring sticks the error will only be like between half or one third.
So be sure to use the o-ring types and the recommended lubricating grease.