Daystate .22 Bleu Wolf HP - Extreme Accuracy - check!

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There is a release agent you can buy at Brownell‘s. It’s simply called release agent. It comes in a spray can. Works much better than wax. You really don’t wanna glue your rifle to the stock... I highly recommend it. And I’m really glad to see you pulled yours out early and saved it.

I need to get one of those rifles. Not in bleu and not in rouge, but in good old all American walnut. Even if it is from England.

The question is how many is Robert going to have still in stock after Mike’s write up on his blue machine?

Well done winning a rifle like that !

mike
 
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Centercut:

The precision in those electronic guns seems to be good at longer distances...Nevertheless, generally speaking I see that the spread is much larger compared to a mechanical regulator/valve system...As you well know, mechanical systems will give you 3-5 fps usually in smaller samples and 5-7 is larger groups is easily attainable with sized-weighed pellets and a well tuned gun...If you can control Dwell with a precise pulse and the pressure in also electronically controlled very tightly, I would expect much better performance than comparable mechanical systems...What have been your experience and findings with Bleu regarding reducing spread?

AZ

PS. The same question goes for Frank who posted a very good thread about tuning a similar gun. 
 
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AZ, I haven't gotten to that point yet, I've only had the gun a week, maybe Frank has a better idea since he's experimented with the Programmer, or Bobby since he's been involved with the Red Wolf gun for a couple of years. I do think it is possible to get it to the under 5 FPS category (as I did with my .30 Bobcat), but would take much experimenting with all the variables available on the Programmer. I know my Bleu Wolf with a stock factory setting in Medium shoots right at an ES of 7 or 8 for 30 shots from 250 to 205 bar. This equates to about 0.2 MOA elevation variance at 100 yards with the RD Monster pellets. I'm also not sure what the "baseline" pressure is that the gun works off of, or why the speed drops as the bottle pressure lowers past 205 bar. 

This is the issue that has been solved with the Delta Wolf. The Delta has a Huma regulated Plenum, so that the electronics in the gun have a consistent pressure to base their settings off of. Combine that with a built in chronometer, which feeds the speed back into the action loop for shots, and I can see an ES of 1 or 2 FPS as routine. The Delta platform is the logical progression from the Red Wolf platform, and is a revolutionary increase in airgun technology. Whereas most guns trundle along with evolutionary changes and improvements, this Delta leapfrogged current airgun technology and is a revolution in precision and performance.

You might say that the mechanical systems with long and tedious tuning by a skilled craftsman can do the same, and you'd be correct. I've gotten my .30 Vulcan2 to shoot with an ES of 3 FPS over a 20 shot string. I've seen posts of Impacts that do the same, but I'm not sure if they were Keyboard or real guns. However, think of this. I tune my gun for 975 FPS with the RD Monsters. I'm in San Diego at near sea level. Then I go to my horse ranch permission in Descanso, which is 3500 ft. elevation and cooler. Humidity is less. Will my mechanical gun shoot 975 FPS? The answer is empirically no, it won't. It might be more, it might be less, but it won't be the same, The Delta on the other hand is programmed for 975 FPS. A few shots and the gun adjusts speed to where you have it set. Or I want my gun to be spot on for the Precision Marksman Challenge at RMAC in Provo, Utah. I have my range card set, but its based on a specific speed for my gun, say 855 FPS with .30 JSB Exact. I did the range card and testing in Temecula, CA (approx 1,000 ft. elevation) at LDs range. Now I'm in Provo at 4500 ft. elevation and its much cooler. My range card, especially at the longer ranges (PMC is 20 to 105 yards) is no good… With the Delta, its spot on, no worries.

Technology moves forward, and doesn't wait. Initially the "old stuff" may outperform or equal the "new stuff". But not for very long. Think vinyl album versus CD, points and plugs vs. electronic ignition, tube vs. LCD screen TVs, and the list goes on. The Red Wolf was the start, and can be equaled with mechanical technology. But the Delta is a leap forward and no mechanical system can equal that precision over a wide range of shooting conditions IMHO.
 
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@azuaro (and centercut)

I am the greenest of novices when it comes to the programming, and really the RW in general. I've not had this one being reviewed for much longer than centercut has had his. 

Bobbie did tell me that would be possible to flatten my 20fpe tune's ES, at a cost of more time spent working on it. Since it's FT and 25-30fps will keep em all in the kz, I'm not going to put a lot more time and effort into it. 

I'll try to do some shot strings on factory High and see how tight the spread is with OEM settings (vs my wildcat programming). 

Because the factory programming (on the one I'm working with) on High calls for the low pressure point to be 202bar, I suspect that ES is going to widen as shots are taken with bottle pressure less than that. 


 
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Big brother showed up today.

1588182688_9163572385ea9bea027c6e6.20613616.jpg

 
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Mike and Frank:

This project looks VERY interesting...Hopefully you two can merge both of your initial threads into one and post all information there so we don't have to jump between threads, this action will also prevent loosing information...I am sure there will be many people following the progress and many people looking forward to contribute some good technical tips/advice...

Keep us posted and thank you for replying to my question.

Best regards for you both,

AZ
 
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Thanks AZ. I’ve decided to go a different route than Frank. The programmer seems like it can get the job done based on Frank’s latest posts, but I’m interested in the Heliboard for a few reasons.

- Easier to program

- More power levels, 12 versus 3

- Finer tuning of each power level. Instead of a Program set point every 45 bar from 250 down to 115 bar, the Heliboard has program set points approx each 10 bar for a total of 20 per power level.

- No accessory programmer necessary. Programming can be done on the gun with the trigger and safety switch

- Higher power possible due to higher voltage capacitors.

- Less expensive than buying a separate programmer. 

The programming video done by @mmahoney is excellent and shows the steps necessary to get a flat power curve. For my intended use of this gun, three power levels are not sufficient. My main use will be 100Y BR where I will set 3 speeds for the RD Monsters. I’ll also set 2 speeds for 25M BR with 18.1 and 15.9 JSB and then a few more for various weight slugs . 



https://youtu.be/G4mEDXpLhi4




 
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Hi Centercut, I have multiple HELIBOARDS made for me in non standard and different capacitor configurations, this allows you to experiment with the actual delivery of power, not just the voltage. To be fair I had them fitted to a number of my Redwolfs, but have now gone back on all my guns to the factory GCU2 board exclusively.

I do caution the use of the HB as afar as getting more power or driving the gun harder than the factory board, this can cause extreme elevated wear on some of the internals of the gun, I have even seen core erosion, certainly you MUST use the hardened hammer, else it peens and small fragments of metal will get into the board and short it out.

I made up a sheet for recording velocities as working in bit rather than bar on the HB will produce better results, but aside from the main advantage of numerous programming points my months of experimenting led me to the following conclusion!

You simply cannot get a better "balance" on the gun than as it comes from the factory, the slopes do not simply depend on just changing a few parameters, like the current program you have on your board done by Bobby and including the HB I found extreme consistency over a fairly narrow pressure range, almost exactly as you said from 250 to around 200-ish then the ES would open up dramatically no matter what we did, compare that to my factory set gun that gives less than 10FPS ES over 140 shots on HP curve and you will understand what I mean.

The gentleman who programs the gun in the factory has been doing so since around 2002 I understand and does approximately 10 guns per day and has done for all that time over the various models and generations of electronic gun.

The one other thing is that the gun IMO actually performs best on the high power curve, so IN THEORY, the best way to set up the gun is to program the velocity you want with the pellet you want on high power 100% this definitely gives you the best results but only becomes apparent at extreme ranges over long shot strings and wide power ranges etc.

But what really gets me about the HB is that blasted switch and how it gets in the way LOL! it is fun to experiment with but IMO take very good care of your factory board and use a high quality anti-static bag to store it in, you may just decide to go back to it one day!

Best of luck.
 
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Mark, gotcha and thanks for the advice. I don’t need or want more power, so I’ll certainly not go over 65 FPE. And I also recognize that from 250 to 205 bar, the factory G2 board is excellent and as good an ES as I could wish for from any gun. But setting the RD Monsters at say 950, 975, and 1000 takes up three speeds, and is intended so if I’m at a place that is much colder or hotter, or significantly higher in elevation where the 975 setting isn’t 975, I can quickly set speed up or down to get to the ideal speed. It also gives me easy choices for pellets used in 25M BR, and also settings for heavier slugs. I am not under the impression that the HB will give me a flatter curve than I currently have, since anything 10 FPS or under is excellent. Thanks again, I appreciate the input.

Mike


 
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No problem CC, I think from memory Micheal did exactly what you have mentioned with 3 curves very close together, 930-50-70 or something like that which is a very good idea, but as you say this leaves no room for curves for other projectiles etc.

Of course the gun as it is initially set up, has a specific breech TP and valve core port diameter and barrel TP, there a fair few of these combinations tailored for the different calibers and powers etc. I didn't understand why at first until I tried to program the gun outside of it's initial power intentions at the low end with the HB, having had the luxury of owning 11 Redwolves and taking most apart to look at the internals and compare mechanics across the range helped me a lot to understand them.

You will really enjoy the gun, personally it's the only one I couldn't part with in any caliber!
 
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I really appreciate your input and perspective on this, Spray1. The Bleu Wolf DOES have the hardened hammer. Mine do not. Need to fix that.

I did meet the factory programmer(can't remember name though) and was quite impressed with his knowledge and methods. You're almost certainly correct on the balance of it as he has tools not available to us plus a LOT of years of experience. They can't predict all the possible uses though , and then it's up to us to try to adapt the best we can. The HB gives a LOT of more user friendly control PLUS a much more informative display , so I use them for that purpose. I do not try for really high power on any of them. The DW will change some of that.

Still seems like you're enjoying it, CC. That's all I could hope for. They set the bar pretty high for anything else we might use.

Bob
 
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The SAFARI was when initially released a stock/power model option, the textured stock combined with the new board/battery and capable of higher power (especially in .22) than the HP versions a sort of really high power if you like, which were basically .22 up from 50 to 65 FPE in power, .30 up from 65 to 80 FPE and .25 although I can't remember the power levels for that caliber offhand.

All Daystate electronic guns came with the new board after July/August last year approximately, the lower power models have the same board but the SAFARI programming is different as are some of the internals to withstand the extra stress placed on them, the larger battery capacity is needed to drive the coil and electronics at the higher rates, I tried the old battery with the new electronics and there is a marked difference in the power delivery.

Obviously it made good business sense to initially sell the SAFARI stock only with the new power option, but at that time it was always intended that in the future all stock options would be availible on all power options once supply caught up with demand, which it now has.

You could order a 12FPE gun with a SAFARI stock if you like, or a blue or red on a 65FPE .22 or 80FPE .30, I have them all and my "most" favorite is definitely the midnight as CC chose, I have other top tier guns with blue stocks but none compare to the finish of the midnight!

The only stock you can't have of course is my one off "carbon fiber white" wolf stock!

Hope that all makes sense!
 
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The SAFARI was when initially released a stock/power model option, the textured stock combined with the new board/battery and capable of higher power (especially in .22) than the HP versions a sort of really high power if you like, which were basically .22 up from 50 to 65 FPE in power, .30 up from 65 to 80 FPE and .25 although I can't remember the power levels for that caliber offhand.

All Daystate electronic guns came with the new board after July/August last year approximately, the lower power models have the same board but the SAFARI programming is different as are some of the internals to withstand the extra stress placed on them, the larger battery capacity is needed to drive the coil and electronics at the higher rates, I tried the old battery with the new electronics and there is a marked difference in the power delivery.

Obviously it made good business sense to initially sell the SAFARI stock only with the new power option, but at that time it was always intended that in the future all stock options would be availible on all power options once supply caught up with demand, which it now has.

You could order a 12FPE gun with a SAFARI stock if you like, or a blue or red on a 65FPE .22 or 80FPE .30, I have them all and my "most" favorite is definitely the midnight as CC chose, I have other top tier guns with blue stocks but none compare to the finish of the midnight!

The only stock you can't have of course is my one off "carbon fiber white" wolf stock!

Hope that all makes sense!
Click to expand...


Informative post. I have a HP model in .22cal, would I need to change to a hardened hammer to go up to 65fpe if I wanted to? Do you have pics of the white stock posted somewhere?
 
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Is your HP a G2 board? when was it made? if it doesn't have a hardened hammer I would absolutely reccomend it at 65FPE or you run the risk of frying the board.

You must understand 65FPE in .22 only really comes into play if you shoot the 34's or slugs, it's no real advantage if you only shoot the 25g Monsters and IMO the Monsters run on the HP curve on a 50-55FPE HP gun is better.

I will post a pic of the white carbon stock shortly!
 
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