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Coyote's skull damage comparison - pellet vs slug

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Shot placement is key
Squack I have had bullets hit , then run between the skin and bone to exit on far side in unexpected places
Well known in Africa especially on Cape buffalo , but I've seen it on pigs as well , weirdest one was a frontal head shot , instant drop , get to animal , client pushes in front of me to get there first , animal jumps up , shakes his head, client is up a thorn tree by then , buffalo shakes it's head couple more times , I shoot it , inspection shows exit of first shot just above the tail 375 H&H ran all the way from the head under the skin , takes about 2 hours to get all the thorns out of client , and about the same to dry his pants 😜
The debate about how small a calibre will kill is only one part of the discussio n, there is also the ethical part of the discussion
 
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Max115 said:
I finally recorded a video comparing the damage of coyote skulls from a pellet and a slug. Both coyotes were shot in the same farm at 70 yards, a year apart.
The first coyote was shot with my 500mm Crown with the AA18gr pellet at 32ft.lb whereas the second coyote was shot with my 600mm Impact with the H&N 23gr slug at 45ft.lb. The shot placement for both was on the left temple.

I never shot any coyotes before so my first coyote was a completely new and exciting experience to me. I didn't know what to expect or whether 32 ft.lb was enough to kill one. Apparently it was enough as I learned the coyote's skull is not very thick. I have since shot two more coyotes using my Impact and the 23gr H&N slugs, an ammo that I trust and prefer for coyote hunt.

Have a watch and see the damage difference in the skull fracture and penetration.

Thanks.

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I truly appreciate your attention to accuracy and precision. Thanks for all of your videos!
 
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peaceful_ruler said:
Hades expand quickly and at low velocities so they aren’t great at penetrating skulls. This makes them great for birds, squirrels, rabbits, etc, small game but even for possums or skunks they are not a great choice. At least this has been my experience with .22 and pushing them around 900 fps.

Because of their tendency to expand quickly they make quite a “thwack” or “pop” upon impact. They are my favorite choice for starlings/pigeons/birds because they are absolutely devastating out to 60-70 meters.

However, I recently was taking out a nuisance possum in a tree in the back yard with the Hades at 10-15 meters. It took no less than 5 well placed shots to the head to knock that possum off its perch!! Did it eventually kill it? Yes. Did it perform satisfactorily? Not even close…
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That sounds weird. It took 5 shots in the head? It don't make sense if you hit the brain.
With my .25 M3 i tune them all around 900 to 950 from 25 grain pellets to 55 grain slugs running at 900 to 950fps for all. I only use Nielsen Slugs and JSB pellets. But I can tell you I get great results from them all, every time.
 
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@Max115 Per usual I enjoyed your presentation. I hope you don’t mind a little constructive criticism. When watching on a phone or smaller mobile device screen it’s helpful to have still photos and closeups so that I can pause the video frame and see the details of the damage. Thank you for providing closeups for an adequate amount of time to allow your audience to view the details of the projectile damage on the skulls from a mobile device. In the room with the tarp in the background maybe you can use a lapel mic clipped to your collar or lapel to cutdown on the echo sound when you’re speaking.

As for your shot placement, WOW!! What really impressed me is how close your shot came to the zygomatic arch, but didn’t clip it on the yote you took with the Air Arms pellet. The skull fracture created by the H&N slug was just plain nasty!! Great shooting Alex. That’s a hell of a benefit to have a taxidermist owning the property. What did you do with the pelt? Did it smell bad?

Thanks for sharing.
 
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athlon_oved said:
That sounds weird. It took 5 shots in the head? It don't make sense if you hit the brain.
With my .25 M3 i tune them all around 900 to 950 from 25 grain pellets to 55 grain slugs running at 900 to 950fps for all. I only use Nielsen Slugs and JSB pellets. But I can tell you I get great results from them all, every time.
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Yes. Keep in mind that these .22 Hades are less than 16 grains. I've had some success with them...there have been several instances where I was able to make a 1 shot kill to the head on possums but not consistently. I'd say it generally takes about 3-5 head shots to take out a full sized possum. Not good at all...the lightweight and semi-wadcutter design means they lose energy very rapidly in the air and upon impact.
 
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@Ezana4CE. I always welcome any comments, positive or negative. That's how I would learn and be better, right? Ya, I wished I had done the video inside the house instead of inside my messy garage with bad echoing. I did this coyote video the same time I did the target box video; hence I was inside the garage. Yes the pellet almost hit the jaw bone of the first coyote. Glad it didn't as that would not be a pleasant feel for the coyote and probably wouldn't have killed it on the spot. Now with the skulls I have, I know exactly where I should aim in the future to ensure a proper shot placement. Slugs are the way to go for me with coyote shooting as the energy dump is so devastating. The pelt was cleaned but there is an odour that my wife don't care for. Instead of hanging in my man cave, it is in a bag, lol.

Thank you for watching.
 
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AirGunShooter said:
About three years ago, I spoke with a young lady who had just graduated as a veterinarian and was starting her first professional job. I asked her about shooting coyotes in the head and how tough their skulls are. She explained that a dog’s skull is quite fragile, especially in the frontal, sinus triangle that makes up the majority of the area between the eyes and above. She told me this area is similar to a human skull, in that it has sinus voids and cavities, which would make it easy to break and puncture with a reasonable powered air rifle.

I told her I’d be using a .30, rifle shooting 50gr pellets at over 83 ft-lbs, at acceptable distances, and she said that would penetrate the skull readily, even from the side.

This past summer I shot two coyotes at approximately 40 yards, using the air rifle noted. Both head side shots and both pellets made a complete pass-through on each coyote head. The coyotes dropped instantly and never moved from that location.
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Is a crosman F4 nitro piston with H&N barracuda pellets enough to penatrate from the side?
 
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AirGunShooter said:
About three years ago, I spoke with a young lady who had just graduated as a veterinarian and was starting her first professional job. I asked her about shooting coyotes in the head and how tough their skulls are. She explained that a dog’s skull is quite fragile, especially in the frontal, sinus triangle that makes up the majority of the area between the eyes and above. She told me this area is similar to a human skull, in that it has sinus voids and cavities, which would make it easy to break and puncture with a reasonable powered air rifle.

I told her I’d be using a .30, rifle shooting 50gr pellets at over 83 ft-lbs, at acceptable distances, and she said that would penetrate the skull readily, even from the side.

This past summer I shot two coyotes at approximately 40 yards, using the air rifle noted. Both head side shots and both pellets made a complete pass-through on each coyote head. The coyotes dropped instantly and never moved from that location.
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Or should I trap it and have him bite the muzzle then shoot up into the roof of its mouth
 
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Max115 said:
I finally recorded a video comparing the damage of coyote skulls from a pellet and a slug. Both coyotes were shot in the same farm at 70 yards, a year apart.
The first coyote was shot with my 500mm Crown with the AA18gr pellet at 32ft.lb whereas the second coyote was shot with my 600mm Impact with the H&N 23gr slug at 45ft.lb. The shot placement for both was on the left temple.

I never shot any coyotes before so my first coyote was a completely new and exciting experience to me. I didn't know what to expect or whether 32 ft.lb was enough to kill one. Apparently it was enough as I learned the coyote's skull is not very thick. I have since shot two more coyotes using my Impact and the 23gr H&N slugs, an ammo that I trust and prefer for coyote hunt.

Have a watch and see the damage difference in the skull fracture and penetration.

Thanks.

Click to expand...
wow bro! that was awesome! lights out! 🤣 i really liked it when it dropped like a rock! amazing shot Max. i followed you on YT too! watching those rat pesting videos are joyfull! thanks for sharing 👍👌
 
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Max115 said:
I finally recorded a video comparing the damage of coyote skulls from a pellet and a slug. Both coyotes were shot in the same farm at 70 yards, a year apart.
The first coyote was shot with my 500mm Crown with the AA18gr pellet at 32ft.lb whereas the second coyote was shot with my 600mm Impact with the H&N 23gr slug at 45ft.lb. The shot placement for both was on the left temple.

I never shot any coyotes before so my first coyote was a completely new and exciting experience to me. I didn't know what to expect or whether 32 ft.lb was enough to kill one. Apparently it was enough as I learned the coyote's skull is not very thick. I have since shot two more coyotes using my Impact and the 23gr H&N slugs, an ammo that I trust and prefer for coyote hunt.

Have a watch and see the damage difference in the skull fracture and penetration.

Thanks.

Click to expand...
I always enjoy your hunting videos and always learn something. Good job! You are an attribute to the channel.
 
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It seems like the 32 fpe pellet did the job quite well even at 70 yards if I understand the presentation. A little more energy in the projectile certainly will not hurt but the results of the pellet is pretty impressive - as well as the shot placement.

Hydrostatic shock just is not a factor until velocity is up well over 2000 fps. Not a factor for air rifles (or PB pistols). One of the three letter agencies wrote an extensive paper after a lot of research on this topic but it was on pistols. Velocities are similar, however.

I test penetration of projectiles two ways before using them on animals. The simpliest test to do is penetration in 1/4 inch MDF pieces. I made up a test block with small MDF sheets placed about 1/2 inch apart using 1/4 thick MDF. It is readily available cheaply at big box home centers where I live. My 45 fpe 25 will shoot through 3 pieces. My 32 fpe 22 and 25 will shoot through 2. My 18 fpe 22 and 19 fpe 177 will shoot through 1. All using simple domed pellets. Typically H&N Baracuda or FTT but Crosmans penetrate the same as 22 caliber FTTs. The 45 fpe 25 likes JSBs and shoots the 25 grain FX best.

The other test is also cheap but takes a little more prep and is a bit messier. It is penetration in wet paper. I used to use newspaper but it is much harder to come by these days so I use magazines. I tie the magazines loosely into bundles and soak them for at least several hours. I like to write down the pages in each magazine before soaking because they fall apart some when they are soaked. I shoot the resulting block of magazines at 25 yards, that is where my MDF test block goes too. After a shot or two with each projectiles I take the block apart and note penetration. I use my Prod, my low power 22 as my minimum acceptance standard for penetration in this test.

I have not tested hades but have tested metal mags and a few slugs that expanded. Expansion grossly reduces penetration but more so in wet paper than MDF in my tests. I would think the MDF better simulates skull penetration, wet paper is meant to simulate muscle tissue. Especially if I got somewhat "bad" results, I would do these simple tests or something similar to try and understand why. I would think penetration of 2 or more MDF pieces would be enough for a coyote. I shot a 8 lb (i.e. small) raccoon with my 32 fpe 22 using a domed pellet between the eyes and it's reaction (lights out) indicates it made it through but I don't know how a small raccoon skull compares to a larger coyote. I shot the raccoon because I thought it might have rabies so I did not skin it or otherwise examine the wounds.
 
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@JimD. That is correct. My first coyote was shot with my FX Crown using the 18gr pellet, 32ft.lb of energy was enough at 70 yards as long as the pellet hits the mark. Coyote's skull is very thin, at least from what I saw. Other parts of the country might be different with larger size coyotes.

Since I got my Impact to shoot these slugs quite well, it is my goto gun for coyotes for the power and energy retention of the slugs. My Impact is currently shooting the H&N 25gr Gen2 slugs at 984fps, 54ft.lb of energy.

Thanks for sharing your findings with the penetration tests. Very interesting.

@Charlie1967%. Thanks for watching.
 
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