Compact, at what point, and at what cost.

[harrymoreland]

How long is a piece of string.

Compact PCPs seem to be enjoying a renaissance, both in bullpup and non bullpup configurations, so a couple of talking points.

First a little personal question, 

How long can an air Rifle be before YOU consider it NOT a compact.

Then a more general discussion around the form

shorter barrel, smaller bottle, less power, less shots, Putting a 6" long mod on your new compact because one reason the manufacture managed to make it compact was by cutting off the shroud to barrel length and it barks like a high velocity power burner.

thoughts?.



good luck.

 

[TMH]

The Impact Compact has become my favorite short, handy air rifle. The ground squirrels who are trying to destroy the safety berms at our range absolutely hate it.

It is 25" in total overall length. Yes, that definitely meets my definition of compact.

It has a "shorter barrel" - 500mm in .22 cal is just plenty.

It has a "smaller bottle" - 300cc has been plenty for my needs and I never even fill it beyond about 225 bar. Gives me at least 5 big magazines of full power shots.

"Less power" - mine is softly tuned, shooting an 18 gr pellet at 880 fps for a muzzle energy of about 31 FPE. Nothing wrong with that.

"Fewer shots" - 5 mags @ 28 shots per mag = 140 rounds before I top it up - I don't feel at all limited by that and I'm not even filling the bottle to full pressure.

"Barks like a powder burner" without an added mod - I guess that I'm really lucky because when I tried my M3 Impact Compact out at the range for the first time without a moderator I could not believe how quiet it was. Follow-up shots on squirrels - no problem. Went home and took the mod off my MkII Compact, and have never even thought about putting them back on.

YMMV but I don't see the same 'downsides' you mention with this compact PCP. Heck, one of my very favorite configurations of a Crown is with the 380mm barrel, and those guns have hooked a lot of brand new airgun shooters into joining our game.

 

[MikeVV]

Self imposed 30" max, Bullpup length. I have two (and one to be...) shortened to be under the 30" max, because I like the gun, just not the length.

This includes any sort of additional silencer to be under the 30" max.

I've owned (still have) a couple of powder fired Bullpup weapons back when the term "Bullpup" ment...CCW (Close Combat Weapon). Not just rear mounted receiver..! A rear mounted receiver gun that's 40" long, is NOT a, Close Combat Weapon as the term was originally used back in the 1980's when it was coined. Be pretty difficult to swing a 40" long gun around in a hall, or small room with others nearby.

So,..yeah, I like short guns.

Mike

 

[TMH]

I will be trying out another 'compact' air gun soon. Won't rival the short length of the Imp. Compact as it will be nearly 33" long. Power in .25 cal shouldn't be an issue. Won't have as good a shot count and its noise level without additional moderation is still to be 'heard'.

Got my first accessory for it today, shown in comparison to the M3 Compact. Hopefully I'll have the gun by Saturday.

 

[limpact]

Rifle configuration I consider 39" and under to be compact

Bullpup 29" and under

Pistol under 15" (basically non existent)

 

[thumper]

I never saw the need for anything so compact that it compromises balance/ergos, efficiency and power. Hard to find a compact gun that does all of that well at once. Two are easy, but all three or tough. 

40ish inches and under is plenty compact for me. 

Now if I was crawling through a culvert shooting rats, I might require something more compact and compromise. But then again, I'd probably just sit on one end and wait for them to come out. (There's a point I was trying to make in there somewhere, lol)

To each his own. I just wish the companies pushing out all these new bullpups would at least put one in a real stock once in a while. Not everybody wants a "rifle" that shoulders up like a kitchen appliance or water gun. 

 

[dizzums]

to me its compact if i can handle it well with one hand while im moving around .. two things - one, you are probably sacrificing some sound supression with a 'really' short one but power from what ive seen is pretty acceptable .. shot count is for paper punchers really .... and two, if you see a compact with a bunch of accessories and bipods plastered all over it that guy just likes the look .. nothing wrong with it but theres really no 'i need a compact' for this or that in that case ..

 

[ChRiSiS]

I will be trying out another 'compact' air gun soon. Won't rival the short length of the Imp. Compact as it will be nearly 33" long. Power in .25 cal shouldn't be an issue. Won't have as good a shot count and its noise level without additional moderation is still to be 'heard'.

Got my first accessory for it today, shown in comparison to the M3 Compact. Hopefully I'll have the gun by Saturday.

TMH, is that a Huben K1 stock I see? If so what caliber? 

I’m seriously considering one so hopefully you will keep us all informed going forward.

Chris

 

[TMH]

Chris,

Yes, will be .25 cal. Kelly says for mostly pellet shooters like me he recommends the .25. 4/21 build.

Could talk more since it is a compact, but getting too close to threadjack.

 

[austin870]

I do like the bullpups figured out a way to get a carbine length fully shrouded barrel, reasonably quite gun in a short package. I like they have adequate air capacity. I don't like the trigger linkage or cocking mechanism location. I don't like the looks or ergonomics of them. My next gun will probably be a long bullpup. The Sporters are just too heavy and long.

The conventional carbine styles struggle with the shorter barrel and noise. They usually wind up putting a goofy looking long moderator on which destroys the carbine length. Most carbines with moderators wind up the same length as a full size sporter with a shroud or even longer. The HW100 carbines look like a surf pole. I got a Daystate Huntman Regal XL at 36.5" with moderator which is probably the longest I will consider from now on. 

 

[Vetmx]

Ok, is my moms gun a compact or a carbine? It’s 26” long with a mod and weighs 4.2lbs. On a side note she tried a bullpup, a Lelya, and just said this thing is all wrong. I said you’ll get used to it. She said I don’t want to so I built her this. I guess once your in your 70’s there is no desire to force yourself to shoot something whacky just because they are cool and convenient.

 

[JungleShooter]

Find below an infographic of 40 bullpups, sorted according to size (OAL).

I included only bullpups that -- when the shroud or silencer is installed -- are under 31" (80cm) short.



I personally would give preference for mid range shooting to the "compact bullpup" models: 24" (61cm).

For a slug slinging super shooter to reach 200y I would still get a bullpup, but with a long or extra long barrel, but the bullpup design allows me to keep is still comfortable short for transport and handling.



As the OP mentioned, some mfctrs. make short guns by simply by making a long gun loud -- resulting in a short gun. For the hunter in the wild that doesn't mind spooking the rest of the prey that might be a fine solution. But many of us, I assume, would like to shoot our gun in proximity to noise sensitive nosey neighbors. And now your formerly short gun gets 6" or 10" longer (and $150-200 more expensive). Uncool.



I have lately grown fond of long pistols.... They are shorter than most bullpups, and when I take the silencer off, they are extremely compact for transport. Using a rice-filled sock (plastic chips are better), they can be field rested just about anywhere with amazing stability. And their power is usually quite sufficient for shooting domes with good wind resistance (high BC). If I want to shoot hollow points -- and want them to expand on impact, I need a bigger badder bullpup. Same goes usually for slugs. Those long pistols often have accessories (mfctr of after-market) to add a folding stock, a nice feature if you want that for offhand shots.



Did I say this already?: I LIKE COMPACT GUNS!! 

Matthias

 

[tscktran]

That's an awesome list of Bulls.

Thanks for posting.

 

[qball]

Compact to me is when with moderator on it doesn’t come close to hit the ground when I hold it by the grip pointed down with my arm straight down. 

 

[Glem.Chally]

Find below an infographic of 40 bullpups, sorted according to size (OAL).

I included only bullpups that -- when the shroud or silencer is installed -- are under 31" (80cm) short.



I personally would give preference for mid range shooting to the "compact bullpup" models: 24" (61cm).

For a slug slinging super shooter to reach 200y I would still get a bullpup, but with a long or extra long barrel, but the bullpup design allows me to keep is still comfortable short for transport and handling.



As the OP mentioned, some mfctrs. make short guns by simply by making a long gun loud -- resulting in a short gun. For the hunter in the wild that doesn't mind spooking the rest of the prey that might be a fine solution. But many of us, I assume, would like to shoot our gun in proximity to noise sensitive nosey neighbors. And now your formerly short gun gets 6" or 10" longer (and $150-200 more expensive). Uncool.



I have lately grown fond of long pistols.... They are shorter than most bullpups, and when I take the silencer off, they are extremely compact for transport. Using a rice-filled sock (plastic chips are better), they can be field rested just about anywhere with amazing stability. And their power is usually quite sufficient for shooting domes with good wind resistance (high BC). If I want to shoot hollow points -- and want them to expand on impact, I need a bigger badder bullpup. Same goes usually for slugs. Those long pistols often have accessories (mfctr of after-market) to add a folding stock, a nice feature if you want that for offhand shots.



Did I say this already?: I LIKE COMPACT GUNS!! 

Matthias

Need to update with the impact compact at 25 or so inches. (Thumbs up)

Informative as always Matthais.

 

[orion]

Compact to me is when with moderator on it doesn’t come close to hit the ground when I hold it by the grip pointed down with my arm straight down.

Exactly! I know when the gun is too long.

It's amazing how the new guns are delivering efficiency and power in a small package today! 

 

[JungleShooter]

Glem.Chally,

Thanks! Yeah, the chart is from 2019, after that we had a flurry of FX's fluttering in. Not sure if I'll do the update, because every gun I'd add would just tuck on my heart — and billfold! — and frankly, I can't afford that right now with kids in college....



But I'm thankful for what I have!!

Matthias

 

[harrymoreland]

ALL good responses, thank you Gentlemen.

These "compact" guns are calling to me, My thoughts are still for a 24" barrel bullpup, BUT, It's getting harder to convince myself that the 17" (or 20" (500mm) FX) will not do the job for me.

Again thank you for your opinions.

 

[gendoc]

Need to update with the impact compact at 25 or so inches. (Thumbs up)

Informative as always Matthais.

also the FX dream-tac compact right at 28"

 

[qball]

Need to update with the impact compact at 25 or so inches. (Thumbs up)

Informative as always Matthais.

also the FX dream-tac compact right at 28"

yes, I have both and they both are about the same when I’m holding them my the grip straight down but impact is obviously more powerful. Believe it or not, with the right scope choice I can get the compact down to sub 8lbs.