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Clearly I needed another hole in my head.........

qball

Member
Apr 13, 2020
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CA, United States
    Any more news on that sweet Thomas? Are you planning to attend any matches soon? Am looking forward to your further impressions on it, I realize there's a lot of setting it up to suit you. Good luck in your FT journey...

    Made no real changes to the gun besides adding a fore-grip for better connect to the shooting sticks. Spend quite a few hours trying to figure out the endless amount of adjustments so it would fit better, It’s all really small tweaks so no pictures. 

    I just happened to attend my first match today. The gun obviously shot as it should and all the misses are on me, my biggest Achilles right now is under 15 yards. Just realized the Element 4-16 can only focus down to about 15 yards so the closer shots I was struggling. Fortunately the wind wasn't too bad so I made up some of the misses with hitting most of my long shots. Definitely could of done better but could of done much worse also, got 68 out of 96 points so quite happy with my first try at it. Missed 3 out of 4 kneel shots, I do suck at unsupported and free hand shooting so another area that needs practice.



    Either way I had a blast at the match so definitely will be back next month. I am amazed by all the sub12 FT shooters, they shoot unsupported and put up some awesome scores, maybe that’s a different rabbit hole I’ll get into next. 
    86AA87DA-0671-4976-A888-44EBBADDDD12.1648424504.jpeg











     

    qball

    Member
    Apr 13, 2020
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      Good job on your first match out, looks like it was a nice day. Good luck going forward...


      Thanks and appreciate the encouragement! It certainly was great fun and very challenging to boot! Totally see this as a deep rabbit hole already as I am thinking about a true/sub12 FT gun already. I probably tune down the Thomas and set it up for FT/sub 12 and use another gun for HFT. I know, this is bad! LOL!



      Edit: for reference Scott or @motorhead scored 92 in the same class. At least I got room for improvement, he obviously won’t have hardly any improvements to look forward to. 🤣
       
      Any more news on that sweet Thomas? Are you planning to attend any matches soon? Am looking forward to your further impressions on it, I realize there's a lot of setting it up to suit you. Good luck in your FT journey...

      Either way I had a blast at the match so definitely will be back next month. I am amazed by all the sub12 FT shooters, they shoot unsupported and put up some awesome scores, maybe that’s a different rabbit hole I’ll get into next. 

      Sounds like you enjoyed it! That's what it's all about. 

      Those WFTF 12 foot pounders aren't exactly unsupported though. They use shooting gloves (which is just a big shank of plastic in a glove, no hand movement) and shooting jackets (lots of movement restriction and straps that tighten down, think straight jacket with arms) as well as butt hooks that look like giant pincers that wrap under, around, and over the shoulder.

      So their gun "support" is simply wearable. I'm personally more impressed with their ability to score as high as the 20 foot pound shooters even with the handicap of so much less energy, cuz yes, they're usually just as high and sometimes higher scores than the full power competitors. A WFTF shooter without all the accoutrements would be impressive indeed. 
       

      qball

      Member
      Apr 13, 2020
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      CA, United States

        Sounds like you enjoyed it! That's what it's all about. 

        Those WFTF 12 foot pounders aren't exactly unsupported though. They use shooting gloves (which is just a big shank of plastic in a glove, no hand movement) and shooting jackets (lots of movement restriction and straps that tighten down, think straight jacket with arms) as well as butt hooks that look like giant pincers that wrap under, around, and over the shoulder.

        So their gun "support" is simply wearable. I'm personally more impressed with their ability to score as high as the 20 foot pound shooters even with the handicap of so much less energy, cuz yes, they're usually just as high and sometimes higher scores than the full power competitors. A WFTF shooter without all the accoutrements would be impressive indeed.



        Yes, it was definitely fun. I'm with you on the fancy jackets and stuff, I found it a bit silly. I'm also very impressed with some of the shooters with just a hamster and a bit fancier "butt pad" sitting on a cushion shooting 12 FPE. After some thinking I'll look into a hamster setup and nicer target "butt pad" with a bit of hook but not too much just to give it a try. The HFT class the ergonomics aren't as important due to the use of the shooting sticks so I want to try it with my Crown shooting 177 slugs at 20 FPE just for giggles, a bit unfair advantage with slugs though. The Thomas has sooooo many adjustments it would be a waste to use it for HFT honestly. With sticks and stool even first timer like me didn't really have too much trouble with 20 FPE except the really close targets which in part was due to my scope couldn't range under 15 yards, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. hahaha
         
        Any more news on that sweet Thomas? Are you planning to attend any matches soon? Am looking forward to your further impressions on it, I realize there's a lot of setting it up to suit you. Good luck in your FT journey...

        Either way I had a blast at the match so definitely will be back next month. I am amazed by all the sub12 FT shooters, they shoot unsupported and put up some awesome scores, maybe that’s a different rabbit hole I’ll get into next. 

        Sounds like you enjoyed it! That's what it's all about. 

        Those WFTF 12 foot pounders aren't exactly unsupported though. They use shooting gloves (which is just a big shank of plastic in a glove, no hand movement) and shooting jackets (lots of movement restriction and straps that tighten down, think straight jacket with arms) as well as butt hooks that look like giant pincers that wrap under, around, and over the shoulder.

        So their gun "support" is simply wearable. I'm personally more impressed with their ability to score as high as the 20 foot pound shooters even with the handicap of so much less energy, cuz yes, they're usually just as high and sometimes higher scores than the full power competitors. A WFTF shooter without all the accoutrements would be impressive indeed.

        The jacket and what not are more of a fatigue reducer than the ultimate support. As for aiding in core support the jacket is mostly for positionals, and standing at that. Too tight in the kneeling or seated positions and you may discover heart issues looking through the scope. The real and honest means of supprt is a strong lower back and core. Without you're relegated to a harness or bucket.

        Third place Springer at Worlds in 2019 did not use any extra support. Then he came to america a few weeks later and spanked the wftf springer shooters at the PA Cup. No jacket and a broken rib. His names Jon Farbrother. 

        I've shot, and on occasion shoot hunter though wftf is my bag right now. I've scored well, winning local, and some grand prix's in both classes. The key to winning, if that is your goal will be concentrated practice( not plinking), as well as a decent level of physical fitness. If you can't walk the course without being winded the match won't be much fun.

        Qball. I'm glad you had a good time at the match. I hope you continue to shoot FT for years the come. Thank you.
         

        qball

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        Apr 13, 2020
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          @MRA_Field_Target: I figured some people need more support more so than others in different areas. Looking at all the competitors I’m at the younger end of age range and honestly as long as people get out and enjoy shooting thats all that matters plus I don’t make the rules and don’t really care. Guess I’m more of your typical model American mediocracy because I don’t care if I win or lose, just having a good time….kinda like golfing long ago. 


          The jacket simply isn’t for me(yet?) because it gets past 100 degrees here in a hurry! Then it seems to be a lot of work to put it on which I’m too lazy for. there were a lot of folks who shot very high scores in all different ways and setup including a gentleman who 3D printed most of his gun parts with no hamsters or anything. Granted my neck hurts looking at how contorted he was. 


          I’m happy that I finally decided to dive into this rabbit hole and pretty sure I will enjoy this sport many years to come. 👍




           

          qball

          Member
          Apr 13, 2020
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            One thing I really enjoy about low power airguns is the luxury to covertly shoot in my yard. Unfortunately the Thomas has a mean bark and only has a shroud with no way to thread on a moderator to quiet it down. Being a nerd and owner of a 3D printer I went about designing a moderator that just slips onto the shroud, to my own surprise the fit was spot on on the very first try.

            8A00EB79-F634-4FD1-94B2-97174F184BE9.1648603531.jpeg

            it even looks pretty good if you ask me. 😝


            gave it a try and it’s MUCH quieter! I pretty much only hear the mechanical noise. The end of the shroud “cap” is also a very nice air stripper so there isn’t much air coming out so the moderator stays very securely with just friction. Put the gun on bags and shot this 5 shot group with the moderator, couldn’t be happier!!! 

            B423CB3E-6A12-4BBC-892F-A558F185080B.1648603518.jpeg



            Time to order a hamster and let the 12FPE backyard FT fun begin! 




             

            thomasair

            Member
            Manufacturer
            Nov 6, 2016
            1,223
            75
            Colorado, United States
              Glad you are enjoying your time with FT. You don’t need a coat to shoot well in wftf. I only use the coat for offhand lanes…and it’s more of a mental crutch. In reality, I’m only about 1-2% different with a coat and without on offhand in practice …but when I’m fighting for a point against tough opponents it’s hard for me to do without it. I’m fat, but pretty limber for a fat guy. Anyone can be limber with a little daily effort and a month or two.

              You can use a 1/2” OD coil spring with a layer of window screen then a layer of heavy felt wrapped around it and inserted into the end of the shroud and it will quiet things up a fair amount without the added length. If you like what you have…then no need for anything different.

              Good that you have the ability to make your own things. 😀

              Mike 


               

              qball

              Member
              Apr 13, 2020
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                Hi Mike

                now that I got the gun to be really back yard quiet I’m loving it even more. I live in a track home in suburbia so stealth is up most important and with the moderator it’s my backyard friendly. I know the felt/filter material trick but without extra baffles, volume and runways for air to lose energy my neighbors will hear it for sure. Only down side is it has expensive diet of JSB pellets because I’m use to 1 cent a pop crosman for my backyard.😝



                I totally get it with the jacket, all the Olympic shooters wear them so it’s clearly for the last 1-2% advantage for really competitive shooters. In all intents and purposes your gun is completely a waste on me because I’m not particularly competitive or just want to have fun. Even a marauder would work just fine for me but hey, we all only live once. Just like golf, even when I suck that day as in every day I will still look good!😅😂🤣
                 

                qball

                Member
                Apr 13, 2020
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                  Happy to see you make it out Sunday ... You had a good showing for a 1st timer & will only get better in time !

                  Crawl, walk, then run is done by all who pursue this FT game.


                  thanks Scott, it was great fun and learning experience. Even though I’m not competitive somehow I’m a gluten for punishment so I’ve already turn the the gun to 11.5 FPE and shopping for a hamster. I never said I’m smart….😂🤣😅
                   

                  qball

                  Member
                  Apr 13, 2020
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                    After much debating I decided I want to give FT a try, it's the additional challenge of unsupported shooting that draws me because I partially suck at it! I know, I can't leave a good thing alone. 



                    Here are some questions for all the seasoned FT folks:

                    - which adjustable hamster do you recommend? I now Rowan is kind of gold standards but at over 500 bones it's a bit speedy. There are many new EU models look very attractive but not sure which one. 

                    - which but plate/hook do you recommend?

                    - lastly, where do you buy all the stuff? Everything interesting seems to be from UK/EU only. Which is a good site to buy from?



                    Thanks in advance! 
                     

                    thomasair

                    Member
                    Manufacturer
                    Nov 6, 2016
                    1,223
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                    Colorado, United States
                      I use the Rowan and consider it a good deal since I bought a different brand for 200$ first and it was complete garbage. Once you put Rowan in the basket and indicate your country as USA the price goes down. It works like it needs to and is unlikely to wear out.

                      I personally would not buy any mechanism that uses a cam type tightening system like a bicycle wheel type.

                      As long as I’ve been shooting, I have never figured out what a butt hook is supposed to do for a shooter besides transmit an unwanted pulse from your armpit. They look cool, but they don’t help any with any normal ft sitting position, kneeling, or standing. If you are gonna shoot deadman…they might be a help because you have a little more room to position the gun on your back knee if you can’t get comfortable otherwise.

                      Mike 
                       

                      qball

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                      Apr 13, 2020
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                        Thanks Mike!!! I’ll look into Rowan!



                        I also never found any one clearly indicating what this extra long hook and shoulder piece are for but most people I saw at the match had something along that like so I figure I’ll give it a try. But think I’ll just keep my current butt plate and try with just rawan hamster first. 


                        thanks again!!!
                         
                        If properly placed the butthook should sit under and slightly behind the armpit resting against the lats. It helps stabilize the gun and allow cant adjustment without putting pressure on the grip.

                        The top hook is important in offhand shooting as it helps take weight off the grip area. This aids in endurance and trigger pull consistency. 
                         

                        qball

                        Member
                        Apr 13, 2020
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                        CA, United States
                          If properly placed the butthook should sit under and slightly behind the armpit resting against the lats. It helps stabilize the gun and allow cant adjustment without putting pressure on the grip.

                          The top hook is important in offhand shooting as it helps take weight off the grip area. This aids in endurance and trigger pull consistency.




                          thank you, it does make sense. Either way I need to order the Rowan later tonight and figure out which butt plate I would want. Down side is it’s rather spendy for trial and error but such is life. 


                          any suggestion on buttplate? Sub-MOA looks really nice from EU.










                           
                          For a couple palm/knee rests I used Iron wood. It was available. I also used a blue and grey laminate to make the one I have now. 

                          The butthook assembly-ma-jig is, unfortunately trial and error if you don't have any to try out at a club or shoot.

                          I went with a 3d printed unit that's showing it's age after 6 years of use. I'll be going with a Sub MOA unit, maybe in a month or so. I was thinking of an MEC Free unit but they are pricey. https://www.mec-shot.de/en/products/accessories/for-rifleshooters/buttplates/

                          Enjoy the ride!