No, if you built a SSG for a gun like yours, you would need a hydraulic cylinder to cock it. I was just thinking of a hammer weight. An actual hammer weight machined to the length of your fully compressed spring.
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Chokes and velocity
- Thread starter Dr. Kralenstein
- Start date
Ahh, that'd be interesting. I'd have to cut the spring guide off the adjuster since it rides into the hammer.
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So you’re dealing with something like this. What if you use a weight like the other thing in the picture. It’s a hammer weight out of one of my RTI’s.
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You will cut 90% of the stub off because you’ll still need a small post for a guide. But at least you’ll get the max hammer weight possible. Just need spring OD, ID and compressed measurements.
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I had something similar in mind. This setup would add the weight and it just transfers the spring guide onto the hammer side vs the adjuster. Nice!
Hopefully I can come up with a way to make it more powerful and easier to cock. My right forearm is killing me after fighting that thing with the stock off and shooting just the action over the chrony. I took this thing apart 5 or 6 times today.
If I can't get into the 800s, I'm going to cut it down and make a 60 fpe 357 rabbit smacker! Slow as hell, but just dump energy.
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Here are the current springs that are in it.
You can imagine how hard this thing is to cock, even as a side lever it's ridiculous.
I'd like to get down to one spring and a heavier hammer. I do have the old hammer from my beeman 1358 with the spring guide that's on the hammer. I could cut it off and turn it down to fit inside the Kral hammer.
You can imagine how hard this thing is to cock, even as a side lever it's ridiculous.
I'd like to get down to one spring and a heavier hammer. I do have the old hammer from my beeman 1358 with the spring guide that's on the hammer. I could cut it off and turn it down to fit inside the Kral hammer.
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Looking at the travel you have to work with, I don’t think you can add much weight to the hammer. Even if you cut down the guide and make one like the one in my picture. Cracking a valve at 300b and getting enough dwell for a 23” barrel is no joke. You may have flown too close to the sun with the tiny receiver.
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I'd have to agree, I'm not able to generate enough force to get the dwell up. I may go back to my original plan of shortened barrel. Maybe start cutting an inch off at a time and see where it gets me. A 600 fps 357 would still have its place on short range small game.
If there isn't enough dwell and volume of air to push the pellet down the barrel, that could induce drag and cause the pellet to slow down.
Hmmm.... reminds me of something with these Krals.
I had a 25 mega that did the same power with the 16 inch barrel as it would with the 20 inch barrel, no matter what I threw at the hammer and ports. Gotta be there just isn't enough hammer strike.
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If you could measure the hammer weight, throw/distance of travel, and both springs OD, their wire diameter, and active coils (I could count these from the pic above as well), I could give some current hammer energy data, and likely what needs changed.
-Matt
-Matt
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Going off his picture, I think I could make him a hammer weight. But I think maybe 8 grams tops. How much of a difference that would make I have no clue. I always reduced weight. Have no experience adding it.
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I was hoping to see 850s with all the work done, but the hammer and short travel is holding me back. If I could achieve 850 and not need a come along to cock the lever, I would then chop it back to 16" barrel length and make it a little more compact.
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Hammer throw can achieve quite the difference in itself, for example...
A)Gun setup with .7" hammer travel, with an 80 gram hammer on a 15 lb spring with .6 preload achieves roughly 1.13 FPE when striking the valve
B)Gun setup with .8" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .5 preload achieves roughly 1.28 FPE when striking the valve
C)Gun setup with .9" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .4 preload achieves roughly 1.45 FPE when striking the valve
D)Gun setup with 1" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .3 preload achieves roughly 1.61 FPE when striking the valve
So as you can see, while compensating with less preload for each arrangement with more travel in case the preload causes coil binding, you still greatly benefit by increasing the hammers throw, a 42% increase in throw from setup A to setup D creates a 42% increase in hammer energy striking the valve, even while retaining the same spring travel, where the setup from A's spring cocked is 1.3" of total preload, and the setup from setup D's spring cocked is also 1.3" of total preload...
So if you can recess your striker, or even reduce the stem protrusion from the valve, or shorten the valve body so more stem is exposed while also reducing the protrusion, .3" can achieve a huge difference....although I'd personally attempt reversible approaches first, since the only thing guaranteed in this life is taxes and death
-Matt
A)Gun setup with .7" hammer travel, with an 80 gram hammer on a 15 lb spring with .6 preload achieves roughly 1.13 FPE when striking the valve
B)Gun setup with .8" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .5 preload achieves roughly 1.28 FPE when striking the valve
C)Gun setup with .9" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .4 preload achieves roughly 1.45 FPE when striking the valve
D)Gun setup with 1" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .3 preload achieves roughly 1.61 FPE when striking the valve
So as you can see, while compensating with less preload for each arrangement with more travel in case the preload causes coil binding, you still greatly benefit by increasing the hammers throw, a 42% increase in throw from setup A to setup D creates a 42% increase in hammer energy striking the valve, even while retaining the same spring travel, where the setup from A's spring cocked is 1.3" of total preload, and the setup from setup D's spring cocked is also 1.3" of total preload...
So if you can recess your striker, or even reduce the stem protrusion from the valve, or shorten the valve body so more stem is exposed while also reducing the protrusion, .3" can achieve a huge difference....although I'd personally attempt reversible approaches first, since the only thing guaranteed in this life is taxes and death
-Matt
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The hammer on these guns has a lip that stops them from going further forward, so trimming the stem is out. I'm thinking of adding weight and using the open section if the stock thats behind the action, making a hammer spring tune inside there and moving the hammer spring back to compensate for the added weight. Think this might be my only option to make any real difference.Hammer throw can achieve quite the difference in itself, for example...
A)Gun setup with .7" hammer travel, with an 80 gram hammer on a 15 lb spring with .6 preload achieves roughly 1.13 FPE when striking the valve
B)Gun setup with .8" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .5 preload achieves roughly 1.28 FPE when striking the valve
C)Gun setup with .9" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .4 preload achieves roughly 1.45 FPE when striking the valve
D)Gun setup with 1" hammer travel with an 80 gram hammer, on a 15 lb spring with .3 preload achieves roughly 1.61 FPE when striking the valve
So as you can see, while compensating with less preload for each arrangement with more travel in case the preload causes coil binding, you still greatly benefit by increasing the hammers throw, a 42% increase in throw from setup A to setup D creates a 42% increase in hammer energy striking the valve, even while retaining the same spring travel, where the setup from A's spring cocked is 1.3" of total preload, and the setup from setup D's spring cocked is also 1.3" of total preload...
So if you can recess your striker, or even reduce the stem protrusion from the valve, or shorten the valve body so more stem is exposed while also reducing the protrusion, .3" can achieve a huge difference....although I'd personally attempt reversible approaches first, since the only thing guaranteed in this life is taxes and death
-Matt
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Take a picture of the back of your block and where your HS adjuster goes in. It looks like it’s held with a screw. Just a screw from the bottom?
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Hammer weight could help plenty. It'll act upon the momentum opposed to the kinetic energy striking the valve. Takes a big shift in weight to matter, going from 80gr to 88gr is 10% gain but the momentum gain is only 5%.
With the lip in mind, wonder how much valve lift it allows prior to bottoming out, you may want to investigate there if its anything below .175" IMO, but if it can stroke it to .175"+ into the .2" range then that lip shouldn't be an issue.
-Matt
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I was thinking just now, that I could shave down the rear of the valve to make the stem protrude further, and then add a strong magnet to the front of the hammer. The magnet would add weight, probably more than just adding some steel or whatever. This would give me a longer valve dwell and more hammer weight, without modifying a bunch of stuff.
Wait a minute. The magnet won't work. It'll get stuck to the valve stem! Lol... long day I'm tired.
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Yea the rear appears to have a ton of meat, .25" is not much and then you could trim the stem the same amount so its protrusion remains equal, easily reversible if you didn't like it with a a replacement stem or extension of the hammers contact point with the stem aka striker.
-Matt
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Your problem may be the pellet blocking the transfer port because it's not being seated deep enough since this is a conversion.
Seat a pellet then remove whatever it takes to look into the transfer port and check for blockage. I wouldn't remove anymore metal until we diagnose the problem.
Seat a pellet then remove whatever it takes to look into the transfer port and check for blockage. I wouldn't remove anymore metal until we diagnose the problem.
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Do what heavy-impact said ASAP. With that Kral Jumbo project I had years ago, I had part of the skirt hanging out in the TP from the factory before I even touched the gun. I don’t know if it messed with the velocity because the gun immediately went under the knife. But it’s definitely something you absolutely need to check. Just seat a pellet and pull the barrel.
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