- The AGN App is ready! Search "Airgun Nation" in your App store. To compliment this new tech we've assigned the "Threads" Feed & "Dark" Mode. To revert back click HERE.
Chinese Products
- Thread starter cahil_2
- Start date
- Status
Let’s take this another step. If you were to gather every belonging that you own and piled it up on your driveway, from furniture, tools, lawn and garden equipment, garden hoses, I mean EVERYTHING you own, and sort thru all that stuff, separating by whom they’re made by, which pile would be the largest? Just the kitchen appliances like blenders, steamers, pots and pans, a lot of that stuff is overseas.
So, with the larger pile being overseas, if you started your life brand new in a new house and restricted it to only American made, I can almost bet you’d be in need of a lot of “stuff”.
Im all for products being made where my feet reside, as I’m brought up pro union and building for America, but man, looking back at some of the tools and materials we used, mostly overseas.
Heres a funny story- I was the field superintendent of an $8 million dollar energy revamp project at UC Davis college in CA back in 2010-2012, when I worked for Johnson Controls. The college required/spec’d out that all materials such as electrical conduit, electrical fittings, copper steam fittings, duct tapes, etc., basically any off the shelf item that it took to build that job, had to bear a US made label of some kind, with documentation to prove it. You wanna know what a mad scramble and head ache that was? Unbelievable.
So, with the larger pile being overseas, if you started your life brand new in a new house and restricted it to only American made, I can almost bet you’d be in need of a lot of “stuff”.
Im all for products being made where my feet reside, as I’m brought up pro union and building for America, but man, looking back at some of the tools and materials we used, mostly overseas.
Heres a funny story- I was the field superintendent of an $8 million dollar energy revamp project at UC Davis college in CA back in 2010-2012, when I worked for Johnson Controls. The college required/spec’d out that all materials such as electrical conduit, electrical fittings, copper steam fittings, duct tapes, etc., basically any off the shelf item that it took to build that job, had to bear a US made label of some kind, with documentation to prove it. You wanna know what a mad scramble and head ache that was? Unbelievable.
Upvote 0
MOST people don't have a clue to how much our capitalistic, retail consumer based society is dependent upon China for the products we buy & believe we can't live without. Probably 90% of EVERYTHING we touch or use every day is produced or has parts produced in China. There is no getting around that in this day & age. Morally I agree with the sentiment. Realistically it's NOT practical! So many products that say "made in America" are not 100% made here.
Upvote 0
I try to buy American whenever possible and still remember how hard it was to buy a hammer made in the US several years ago and ended up buying an Estwing made in Illinois. And as Sonny said China is no friend of ours. They have started companies in their home country and have given them brand names like Leupold and Zeiss and copied them and can legally sell them even though they aren't manufactured by the original manufacturer. The truly unfortunate thing is these knock offs end up being sold used to unsuspecting folks that find out too late that they have a counterfeit product. There are many countries that compete with the US on a fair playing field but China isn't one of them. They are thieves, plain and simple.
Upvote 0
The key phrase id "when possible". I personally have paid much more for an item if I had a reasonable belief it was made in the US. Of course, if you need something NOW and all you can find is China you do what you have to do. If I have time and can locate a source other than China, and afford the upcharge, which I can, I do.
Upvote 0
I don’t think many Americans remember when Lake Erie caught fire because of all the pollutants in the 1970’s. I remember people were very upset, and we did start moving a lot of industries to 3rd world countries. It wasn’t long ago that I too was very wary of anything built in China. Up until lately, I felt that way, until I realized the iPhone I am using now, a lot of the components in my truck, hell a lot of little things, bikes, optics etc are made in China and made quite well. It comes down to this, I love American quality, when we put our minds to production, unfortunately, the cost of labor and the liability (remember that Karen in the eighties who couldn’t understand that coffee from McDonald’s is hot? She sued the hell out of McDonald’s.) I feel the eighties greed made liabilities kinda bad for American companies. Well, on the spectrum, we have RAW and JSAR, great American high end companies. But we also have all the snowpeak built stuff, that works but is a quarter of the price. As long as people vote with their pocket books, dumping Chinese maybe hard to do. If you shop at amazon or Walmart, IMO you are supporting Chinese made goods. I say forget just talking about it and being angry about it, but don’t be a hypocrite if you don’t vote with your pocket book. I am human, the people in China are people also just trying to live. I support all my fellow humans on this planet, I definitely do not support the Chinese government and the messed things they do.
Upvote 0
I mean, I like tools and I try to order high quality tools such snap on and matco, but holy hell, I pay for American quality. If you are constantly buying tools at harbor freight and bitching about Chinese quality, well hell, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s the same with almost everything we buy as Americans. There are goods made in America, but there is almost always a Chinese clone for a fraction of the cost. I like knives, I bought a 100 percent USA made Chris Reeve knife. It was 500.00 but you can also buy a Chinese made clone 25.00 This is what it comes down to. Do you want a real atlas bipod for 350.00 or the green blob eBay clone for 40.00. The topic of dumping Chinese made goods only comes down to the consumer. If enough people do not buy Chinese made goods and can afford made in USA products, problem solved, simple economics, supply and demand. But I do believe many Americans can not afford all they want and have to vote with their money.
Upvote 0
I loved the part in Armageddon, the Russian cosmonaut is in the space station trying to fix something and he starts yelling in a Russian accent, “American parts, Russian parts, all made in China!”
Upvote 0
I have been trying to do this more when possible. For example, on audio I have been buying from a small company called Schiit (ironically it is good Schiit). If I read correctly all parts are sourced from US with exception of wall warts.
I am hoping this is a wake up call for manufacturers.
I am hoping this is a wake up call for manufacturers.
Upvote 0
Snap on does not make tools! Hence why their company has diminished heavily over the years! Mac tools was in the same boat. All their tools ended up being made in “China” and that really bit them in the ass! They realized that was an awful business plan
Upvote 0
I have been in metal fabrications and new products development since 1980, as a mechanical engineer and designer. When the outsourcing started back than, we realized at some point that ...not only you sent them to fabricate a part, but you had to give them the engineering as well. As per Chinese laws if you take the job there you need to hand over as an entire package. This how Western corporations started making money, and this how Eastern's were learning the technology.
Cloning? This is a wide terminology you need to learn the dictionary what that means. I guess I know what you wanted to say, but
No, there was no cloning at all, not on corporate levels...the smarter guys-individuals directly involved with high tricks stepped out from premises and formed their own business companies. The corporations lost valuable assets also suddenly a familiar looking product surfaced and running on the shelf's for fractions. Sounds familiar? How many times you swap jobs (or we may call that a learning curve?), and how many times on new interviews they (a new employer) were asking you very specific questions "what did you do how did you did it" and if you ended up with couple dollars gain as a start, we call it a good deal? Actually you just sold your experience for a little more.
Companies could have hundreds of patents trying to protect a certain product, I can do "revers engineering" with minor changes and re-brand it and that is all what takes. Millions of cases in USA and anywhere in the Western world, nothing new lately everybody stealing from everybody. When that started? From a very beginning it was there and only recently nobody hiding anymore.
Bringing back the jobs and the production? Almost not possible...first of all nobody knows how to make those things anymore ...for affordable money
Cloning? This is a wide terminology you need to learn the dictionary what that means. I guess I know what you wanted to say, but
No, there was no cloning at all, not on corporate levels...the smarter guys-individuals directly involved with high tricks stepped out from premises and formed their own business companies. The corporations lost valuable assets also suddenly a familiar looking product surfaced and running on the shelf's for fractions. Sounds familiar? How many times you swap jobs (or we may call that a learning curve?), and how many times on new interviews they (a new employer) were asking you very specific questions "what did you do how did you did it" and if you ended up with couple dollars gain as a start, we call it a good deal? Actually you just sold your experience for a little more.
Companies could have hundreds of patents trying to protect a certain product, I can do "revers engineering" with minor changes and re-brand it and that is all what takes. Millions of cases in USA and anywhere in the Western world, nothing new lately everybody stealing from everybody. When that started? From a very beginning it was there and only recently nobody hiding anymore.
Bringing back the jobs and the production? Almost not possible...first of all nobody knows how to make those things anymore ...for affordable money
Upvote 0
If you read my previous post you know how I feel about the Chinese not competing fairly however we are the only ones who have the power to stop it. We don't buy, they can't sell. Sounds easy enough until we face the stark reality of the situation. That is, we have a better standard of living because of the imported products. Many equate standard of living with income and to a point it is true. But only to a point. Standard of living is more accurately determined by what goods and services can be bought with our income. Example: if you double your income your standard of living will not improve if the price of everything doubles as well. Another example: Your income is cut by 25% but the price of goods and services are cut by 35%. You just got a pay cut but your standard of living improved. So my question is. If everything manufactured overseas was suddenly brought back to the US would a US citizen have a better standard of living? For that answer to be yes the returning products would have to be sold for the same price or less. I for one don' see that happening unless the labor costs were lowered which would probably be accomplished by lowering wages and the cycle starts all over again. So we are left with the choice that the OP suggested. Buy American and save as many jobs as we can. Sounds like a plan to me.
Upvote 0
Why Chinese ?
Simple
Salary of US worker minimun wage 15 dlls average per hour
Salary of Chinese worker minimun wage .25 US cents a Day !
Simple
Salary of US worker minimun wage 15 dlls average per hour
Salary of Chinese worker minimun wage .25 US cents a Day !
Upvote 0
We have done it to our self's ..... Unions upped wages above the blue collar private sector wage created a class separation starting nearly a century ago.
Americas ( many ) are too damn proud and too damn spoiled to take some lessor job. Granted it don't pay the bills and one only need to really look at why that is ?
CLASS separation of the have and have not. If you look at the GROSS value in dollars this country has in circulation ? Corporate America and it's major bread winners have MOST of it .. See MAJORITY !!
leaving the rest of us ... LOL the other MAJORITY to use whats left to buy sell and barter our way to get ahead of the other guy. ( keeping up with the jones ) or just trying to pay bills because everyone else is looking to acquire your money too ! Buy for a buck, sell for 10
To get ahead your money you do have needs to stretch ... BUY CHEAP ! While all the while my JOB DOES NOT PAY ME ENOUGH ! so some lessor paying job is looked at by many a step backwards there not willing to make.
Well well well ... who is looking to get a job, any job and happy to have it .... That's right folks ( Pick your country ? )
We in our self driven greed to get ahead of the next guy, succeed at any cost has brought up to where we are today ..... We created a vacuum for labor to make stuff cheap because we're cheap and the social fabric of the great country IS UNWILLING TO PAY FOR GOODS OR SERVICES that would be many many many times more expensive if made here because we can't support our self on a lower wage. It has become a fatal double edge sword of run--amuck capitalism and here we are !!!
Just thoughts ... Quickly typed ... But feel true.
Negative yes .... containing a resolve No ... It's a mess and that we can all agree on ... Or not ?
Americas ( many ) are too damn proud and too damn spoiled to take some lessor job. Granted it don't pay the bills and one only need to really look at why that is ?
CLASS separation of the have and have not. If you look at the GROSS value in dollars this country has in circulation ? Corporate America and it's major bread winners have MOST of it .. See MAJORITY !!
leaving the rest of us ... LOL the other MAJORITY to use whats left to buy sell and barter our way to get ahead of the other guy. ( keeping up with the jones ) or just trying to pay bills because everyone else is looking to acquire your money too ! Buy for a buck, sell for 10
To get ahead your money you do have needs to stretch ... BUY CHEAP ! While all the while my JOB DOES NOT PAY ME ENOUGH ! so some lessor paying job is looked at by many a step backwards there not willing to make.
Well well well ... who is looking to get a job, any job and happy to have it .... That's right folks ( Pick your country ? )
We in our self driven greed to get ahead of the next guy, succeed at any cost has brought up to where we are today ..... We created a vacuum for labor to make stuff cheap because we're cheap and the social fabric of the great country IS UNWILLING TO PAY FOR GOODS OR SERVICES that would be many many many times more expensive if made here because we can't support our self on a lower wage. It has become a fatal double edge sword of run--amuck capitalism and here we are !!!
Just thoughts ... Quickly typed ... But feel true.
Negative yes .... containing a resolve No ... It's a mess and that we can all agree on ... Or not ?
Upvote 0
There’s probably a few Harley owners that still think their new Harley’s are “made” in America. I wonder when made in America changed to assembled in America but made somewhere else.
Outsourcing jobs is one of the issues with our economy. But one of the not so talked about issues is so deceptive it attacks your hard earned dollars every year by about 2%. That my friends is called inflation. The value of a dollar has significantly dropped since the 50s. Even though we’re making more, the ratio of dollar value compared to cost of living is worse than it was in the 50s; a time where the average joe could buy a house and support his family by himself with his wife staying home. A time when most products were still made in America. Decade by decade they played with the ratios of dollar value to cost of goods and services. It happens so slowly the current and next generations don’t realize it. Until we’re living in a society where both parents working sometimes isn’t enough. Where the average man is taxed so much from property tax, income tax, sales tax etc that he’s lucky if 50% of his earnings are his to spend.
One thing never made much sense to me about us: We let an entity that is NOT American (nor part of the government) control our money! With a name like FEDERAL RESERVE you’d think they were part of the govt. NOPE! So we work hard for our money only to let its value be decided by a group of people who don’t have the American people’s best interest in their hearts. This is madness. The American people should have a say in the value of the dollar they work hard for
Outsourcing jobs is one of the issues with our economy. But one of the not so talked about issues is so deceptive it attacks your hard earned dollars every year by about 2%. That my friends is called inflation. The value of a dollar has significantly dropped since the 50s. Even though we’re making more, the ratio of dollar value compared to cost of living is worse than it was in the 50s; a time where the average joe could buy a house and support his family by himself with his wife staying home. A time when most products were still made in America. Decade by decade they played with the ratios of dollar value to cost of goods and services. It happens so slowly the current and next generations don’t realize it. Until we’re living in a society where both parents working sometimes isn’t enough. Where the average man is taxed so much from property tax, income tax, sales tax etc that he’s lucky if 50% of his earnings are his to spend.
One thing never made much sense to me about us: We let an entity that is NOT American (nor part of the government) control our money! With a name like FEDERAL RESERVE you’d think they were part of the govt. NOPE! So we work hard for our money only to let its value be decided by a group of people who don’t have the American people’s best interest in their hearts. This is madness. The American people should have a say in the value of the dollar they work hard for
Upvote 0
Global elitist, whose only allegience is to their shareholders ,By law, profit takes priority over national allegience. That's a globalist.
Upvote 0
I don't think it is possible for America to climb out of the hole that we have made. I work in the electric transmission field. We don't have 1 Large Power Transformer in our utility that was made in the US that has been installed in the last 10 years approximately. The last I remember was ABB had a plant in St Louis but it doesn't build large transformers any longer. That was the last I remember. Just think without electric transmission your lights won’t turn on. Machines can’t run. Nothing gets made.
There are probably folks here from other industries that could comment on their line of expertise.
There are probably folks here from other industries that could comment on their line of expertise.
Upvote 0
To ever get to where you want to be you have to take a step in that direction. Yes the trip might well be long enough we never make it there but maybe our kids or theirs do. Doing nothing or expecting those who screwed it up to fix it so we dont have to is the same attitude that got us where we are now. True as an induvidual we are powerless but when we band together its just as true we have all the power. We must learn how to work toward long term goals despite the fact every few years our government changes direction and our leaders can see no farther or have any concerns beyond themselfs.
As a nation we have many threats facing us that are bigger than China. And just like the trouble with China they are of our own making.
As a nation we have many threats facing us that are bigger than China. And just like the trouble with China they are of our own making.
Upvote 0
I think part of the problem (and I bring this up because I'm guilty of it) is STUFF. Life was so much more simple when I was young. My parents made purchases in a much more thoughtful manner. Luxuries were carefully considered and once purchased the expectation was that the purchase would last for many years. I remember back in 1975 my father bought a 25 inch color TV. He paid $560 for it back then. I look at what kind of TV $560 will buy today and it is absolutely amazing, but will it last? Prior to that we had a black and white console TV that lasted for more than 15 years. That Black and White TV was repaired at least twice that I remember and it was a TV repairman that came to the house to fix it. Back then things were designed to be fixed. A lot of people made a good living repairing things back then.
Compare that to today, I had a 32 inch flat screen that I bought that had a 1 year warranty. About 3 months in the TV stopped working, I contacted the manufacturer and the closest repair center authorized to do warranty work was 90 miles away even though I live in a relatively large city. I had to drive it out to this guys house out in the middle of no where. Why? He was one of the few guys left in my state that fixed TVs. So I drove 90 miles to drop off my TV, then had to wait 3 months for him to obtain the parts from the manufacturer then drive back out to his house and pick it up. This was a TV that I spent $300 on. So this warranty work cost me 360 miles of gas and wear and tear on my vehicle plus my time. Why didn't I ship it you might ask? The repair guy said he didn't ship so I had to pick it up anyway and when I looked at the shipping cost to his place it was a wash.
My point to all of this is that part of the issue is that we all want stuff and lots off it. The stuff that we buy isn't meant to last or be repaired easily. I could go on and on about all of the stuff I threw away because something simple was broken and there was no way for me to fix it and I am pretty handy. So we buy all this stuff and then replace it routinely because it doesn't last.
The one thing that is a significant exception to this is vehicles. It is no big deal for me to put 200,000 miles on my car. When I was a kid, that was pretty much unthinkable. I'm sure there are a few other examples but on the whole stuff is designed to break and be replaced.
Lately I have taken the position that less is more and I have been trying to simplify my life. I have a long way to go but the less crap that I have in my life the happier I am. I still like to have toys but now I try to limit them and enjoy what I have.
Compare that to today, I had a 32 inch flat screen that I bought that had a 1 year warranty. About 3 months in the TV stopped working, I contacted the manufacturer and the closest repair center authorized to do warranty work was 90 miles away even though I live in a relatively large city. I had to drive it out to this guys house out in the middle of no where. Why? He was one of the few guys left in my state that fixed TVs. So I drove 90 miles to drop off my TV, then had to wait 3 months for him to obtain the parts from the manufacturer then drive back out to his house and pick it up. This was a TV that I spent $300 on. So this warranty work cost me 360 miles of gas and wear and tear on my vehicle plus my time. Why didn't I ship it you might ask? The repair guy said he didn't ship so I had to pick it up anyway and when I looked at the shipping cost to his place it was a wash.
My point to all of this is that part of the issue is that we all want stuff and lots off it. The stuff that we buy isn't meant to last or be repaired easily. I could go on and on about all of the stuff I threw away because something simple was broken and there was no way for me to fix it and I am pretty handy. So we buy all this stuff and then replace it routinely because it doesn't last.
The one thing that is a significant exception to this is vehicles. It is no big deal for me to put 200,000 miles on my car. When I was a kid, that was pretty much unthinkable. I'm sure there are a few other examples but on the whole stuff is designed to break and be replaced.
Lately I have taken the position that less is more and I have been trying to simplify my life. I have a long way to go but the less crap that I have in my life the happier I am. I still like to have toys but now I try to limit them and enjoy what I have.
Upvote 0
- Status