JTS Airacuda Max shooting 16gr JTS pellets and getting an honest 1/2 inch group at 75 yds.How the heck can they do it?
Chinese Barrels
- Thread starter UDABEGGER
- Start date
It's mature technology, it really ought to be easy at this point. Barrels have been made for hundreds of years. I think of most barrel blanks (rifled tubes) as perfect*. It's up to the person adapting them to a given rifle to preserve that 'perfection' or ruin it, but that's really where the variance lies, imo.
GsT
* OK, some are a little more perfect than others ;-) but not so much as premium manufacturers would like you to believe.
GsT
* OK, some are a little more perfect than others ;-) but not so much as premium manufacturers would like you to believe.
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Hammer forged barrels are cheapest to make and all they have to do is not mess it up when fit and finish them. Like @GeneT said it’s nothing new or complicated, plus China has abundant cheap and skilled labor. Chinese guns have been lagging on internal mechanism design but they are catching up quickly, just look at avenger.
However Chinese labor is getting expensive while advanced/smart western companies are reducing cost by using quality machines/automation. To get to certain quality level Chinese manufactures have to buy high quality machines too which would shrink the price gap between quality Chinese guns and western made guns. Those who innovate will win in the end, we the consumers will also win thanks to competition.
Then…..shooting quality pellets accurately isn’t really all that difficult. A $299 avenger with a little tuning can do that all day.
However Chinese labor is getting expensive while advanced/smart western companies are reducing cost by using quality machines/automation. To get to certain quality level Chinese manufactures have to buy high quality machines too which would shrink the price gap between quality Chinese guns and western made guns. Those who innovate will win in the end, we the consumers will also win thanks to competition.
Then…..shooting quality pellets accurately isn’t really all that difficult. A $299 avenger with a little tuning can do that all day.
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I saw a YouTube video about making barrels for SnowPeak showing a DOM tube, a rod with rifling on it, the rod was inserted into the DOM tube and the tube went through a machine with rollers that pushed the tube into the rod.
No broach, no cherry, kinda' neat.
No broach, no cherry, kinda' neat.
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I don't see why not the Chinese can make a decent barrel. They where the first to use a gun.
The Chinese
Technically speaking, the first guns were invented by the Chinese around 1000 CE. Their version of a gun used gunpowder to shoot out an arrow out of a tube at high speeds. The Chinese also used a similar device to shoot fireballs made of sulfur and other black powders around this period.
The Chinese
Technically speaking, the first guns were invented by the Chinese around 1000 CE. Their version of a gun used gunpowder to shoot out an arrow out of a tube at high speeds. The Chinese also used a similar device to shoot fireballs made of sulfur and other black powders around this period.
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Well i am surre you can also buy a Chinese barrel that is nothing more but a old brake line painted to look the part.
Out there as elsewhere you get what you pay for.
Mind you,,,,, i am not standing downstream of any Chinese dam ASO, CUZ the things that happen out there with tofu dreg builds,,,,, OMG
Out there as elsewhere you get what you pay for.
Mind you,,,,, i am not standing downstream of any Chinese dam ASO, CUZ the things that happen out there with tofu dreg builds,,,,, OMG
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On the contrary, hammer forging is a more expensive process than button rifling.
Technically that’s true but I think it trivializes the nature of workmanship. If it were easy to not mess it up, things like poor quality crowns and leades wouldn’t be so commonplace.
I haven’t had my hands on an Airacuda but the general consensus on the forums suggest the factory (Xisico) is pretty consistently producing good barrels nowadays. My guess is most of that newfound success can be attributed to workmanship. Saying that based on what I’ve seen of their earlier barrels and how they responded after the workmanship deficiencies were addressed.
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With all this talk about JTS, Avenge-X etc., shooting 1/2.groups at 75 yards and inside MOA at 100Y with pellets, no doubt we’ll see some of those guns at the big events (EBR and RMAC) and the medium size events (NAC and PAC) this year at 100 yard Benchrest.
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"Easy" and "hard" are ambiguous terms, but in reality making a high quality crown is "easy" whether you've got a treadle lathe, a hand-held drill, or a Hardinge HLV-H (that's a super-precision lathe, for those unfamiliar). Making a poor quality crown is inexcusably sloppy, but perhaps an indication of what the market will endure. The leade is a bit different, though it shouldn't be much harder given appropriate tooling.
I think considering barrels 'perfect' and "not messing them up" as the goal is the opposite of trivializing workmanship. In my mind it's the admonition that workmanship is of supreme importance. Lapping an unlapped barrel might improve it, but for the most part machining operations can only *preserve* accuracy, so sloppy machining is going to result in reduced accuracy (see aforementioned comments on crowns and leades...) and careful machining is going to preserve as much of the barrel's potential as possible.
Mostly philosophy, I guess. Care in any step results in a superior product, but silk purses and sow's ears...
GsT
I think considering barrels 'perfect' and "not messing them up" as the goal is the opposite of trivializing workmanship. In my mind it's the admonition that workmanship is of supreme importance. Lapping an unlapped barrel might improve it, but for the most part machining operations can only *preserve* accuracy, so sloppy machining is going to result in reduced accuracy (see aforementioned comments on crowns and leades...) and careful machining is going to preserve as much of the barrel's potential as possible.
Mostly philosophy, I guess. Care in any step results in a superior product, but silk purses and sow's ears...
GsT
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I'm sure that was tongue-in-cheek. Everyone who has ever shot a 1/2" group at (whatever) likes to think of their rifle in that regard, even if it only happened once. Protecting that illusion is what keeps many from competing.
GsT
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id say you could get lucky, with some fresh tooling and a guy that has skill putting some out .. i doubt theyre putting the extra work into finishing barrels like a quality manufacturer does though .. most chinese barrels are just rough machined and slapped into a gun lol .. ive seen it happen though, sometimes a judicious choke can make up for a rough barrel, it just swages any pellet you feed it out perfectly every time lol ..
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I've seen some pretty rough barrels from "quality manufacturers" as well. No one is immune to market pressures, and if it turns out that 99% are fine with an 80% barrel, then that's what we'll get...
GsT
GsT
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China doesn't allow their people to shooting any airgun if the muzzle energy is more than 3 joule and they ban the replica gun also. But there were some small workshops are making airguns underwater. The most airgun they made is airforce clones and they make barrels by themselves. Some times they smuggle some lothar walther barrel or the whole rifle from States and HONGKONG. The most popular airgun brand are FX, EDGUN, CREKIT, AIR FORCE. But now, those small workships are gone, because the "BOSS XI" be afraid of a pellet gun. The authorized airgun manufacturers are military factory or the manufactures must be under goverments control.
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Making very good barrel blanks, depending on the production method, can be largely the product of good equipment. Hammer forged barrels are more equipment dependent than cut rifling, which requires more human input. I'm neither a tech nor a rifle expert, but I have about a half century of participation in most of the shooting sports. In my experience, delivering a good barrel to your gunsmith is the easy part, as there are usually several high quality barrel makers. At that point, it's in the hands of the gunsmith, and the way the barrel is prepared is key. The barrel may need lapping, and the chamber leade is critical. It's kind if like race teams buying crate motors from the same manufacturer. What happens next is critical.
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It’s true with roughy button rifle barrel that hasn’t changed the button long past due but hammer forge is not expensive. If you look at descent quality budget center fire they are hammer forged. In airgun world Hammer-forged barrel is plenty good enough but certainly not expensive. Some Walmart BSA GAMOs also have British hammer forged barrels.
We all know mostly what needs to be done for fitting and finishing barrel and Chinese manufactures can do all the way to match grade level stuff if someone pays for it. At the end of the day it’s the brand product manager that determine what barrel/process/steps to pay for on the gun and then the person to perform QC.
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The chinese are more than capable of very good manufacturing.We Americans are not willing to pay made in america prices for chinese products regardless of quality.A mental stigma-chinese quality is an oxymoron to us.
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If you understand how communism works you will know there is very little motivation to innovate. Innovation occurs in a capitalistic society because the individuals or corporations involved have the opportunity to profit greatly from their innovations.
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