Check out this scope leveler

[Macros]

I think nightforce is working on the assumption that the alignment of the receiver, rings etc are perfect, in which case their recommendations would be fine. Problem is there is no guarantee that is the case.

That said, any error may well be small enough as to be negligible/unnoticeable to you at the distances you shoot. If it's worked for you and you're not seeing distance related lateral poi shift then it's all good and you've nothing to worry about.

If you are seeing shift however, at least now you have an alternative method to use to fix it 

 

[edosan]

I like it...

Donno if leveling is the word, but for sure will help to keep the horizon of the scope/reticle perpendicular to the gun barrel...(symmetry) 

It has hapend to me that after installing a scope from scratch...I had to correct the horizon several times ... is just a sore to the eyes (and will have accuracy issues). With Arisaka you do it once and done..nice ... now I wonder...is there a real difference than leveling with a bubble on the scope? (probably a bit more precise?) 

Thanks for sharing that B.

 

[bandg]

I like it...

Donno if leveling is the word, but for sure will help to keep the horizon of the scope/reticle perpendicular to the gun barrel...(symmetry) 

It has hapend to me that after installing a scope from scratch...I had to correct the horizon several times ... is just a sore to the eyes (and will have accuracy issues). With Arisaka you do it once and done..nice ... now I wonder...is there a real difference than leveling with a bubble on the scope? (probably a bit more precise?) 

Thanks for sharing that B.

Not if the rail or base is slightly tilted. Then the scope may be perpendicular to the rail or base but wouldn't be perpendicular to the bore.



I don't use the mirror method personally but it seems to work well for those who do. I shoot my guns wihile cranking elevation up and down and watching to see that the point of impact moves only up and down with no left to right movement. That will assure the shooter that the SCOPE INTERNAL TRACKING MECHANISM is aligned with the plane of pellet flight.

 

[stoti]

Yo Bob, what up my friend? Still testing, got some good results with heavier slugs(39gr.) the other day. I just bought a new gun though, so when it arrives, the slug testing with the Crown might be on the back burner for a while, or I might swap the barrel and try even more power that I will have available. We'll see I guess. Instead of creating a whole new post, I just wanted to say hello and get that out of the way. 

I have one of these Arisaka kits I got on Amazon for $25. It's actually a great tool. I have a couple of small magnetic levels, an action level, the leveling kit Tomcat reviewed and the other Caldwell scope mounting, lapping kit as well. I've bought them all over the years, unfortunately! True, the Arisaka leveler is not the do all, end all , but used in conjunction with a couple of small levels, a mirror and a horizontal laser line up a wall(I use a cheap, picture hanging laser level), I have all the tools to get the scope aligned with the reticle level and un-canted in just a few minutes. I'm so anal that I'd rather use multiple tools and redundancy vs. just one tool or method to assure my scopes are mounted correctly the first time. I know the machining on rails and parts can be off, even so, they're not usually off by a lot and this Arisaka leveler will get me surprisingly close all by itself, I just fine tune from there. I start with the Arisaka first, the mirror and small levels second and a laser line third. After laying out the parts and having everything ready to go, I can be done in no more than 10-15 minutes and I am confident it's done accurately so I have one less thing to ever second guess in the field or at the range. Have a great weekend bud!

Stoti

 

[Bob_O]

Hey buddy!! Good to hear the groups are tightening up.



Well, the Ariska worked just fine on the Crown today. The way I see it is the quicker I can get through setup, the better. I don't like to fuss with stuff that should be easy. 

 

[L.Leon]

@Stoti, I will definitely borrow the laser line idea thanks.

 

[AirSupply]

I like it...

Donno if leveling is the word, but for sure will help to keep the horizon of the scope/reticle perpendicular to the gun barrel...(symmetry) 

It has hapend to me that after installing a scope from scratch...I had to correct the horizon several times ... is just a sore to the eyes (and will have accuracy issues). With Arisaka you do it once and done..nice ... now I wonder...is there a real difference than leveling with a bubble on the scope? (probably a bit more precise?) 

Thanks for sharing that B.

Not if the rail or base is slightly tilted. Then the scope may be perpendicular to the rail or base but wouldn't be perpendicular to the bore.



I don't use the mirror method personally but it seems to work well for those who do. I shoot my guns wihile cranking elevation up and down and watching to see that the point of impact moves only up and down with no left to right movement. That will assure the shooter that the SCOPE INTERNAL TRACKING MECHANISM is aligned with the plane of pellet flight.

What a great way to ensure proper scope bore alignment. So simple and result based. Thanks for sharing that +1

 

[bandg]

You are welcome. It has always worked very well for me with long range firearms and air guns alike. Removes ALL doubt about correct alignment even if the scope has turrets or "flat spots" for reference that aren't actually aligned with the internal movement. Just do it on a calm day so wind is not a factor and I bet you will find it simple and accurate.

 

[Haganaga]

I’ve just tried the mirror one. And it seems to be spot on. But you’re right about mechanical accuracy. Been super windy round here lately to try the second phase. Can you elaborate on how you do it? For example, what distance do you use the up and down turret? What’s your procedure do you do for airguns?

 

[bandg]

Distance isn't critical but I usually shoot at 30 yards when doing this with air guns. Make a large target with clearly visible vertical and horizontal lines to align the reticle. The two most important things are making sure that the target is LEVEL so that the vertical line is exactly vertical and doing it on a CALM day. A plumb bob or a heavy nut on a string can accomplish the vertical alignment. Any wind can make this method frustrating so a calm day is important. Place reticle over the lines and shoot. Crank elevation up and shoot again. Crank elevation down and shoot again. I'll usually do a couple of rotations of the turret in each direction to see a clear separation of the groups. The groups should move only up and down with no left to right movement if the scope/tracking is level to bore. If the scope/tracking isn't level to the bore one direction group will be to the left of the vertical and the other direction group will be to the right of the vertical. If that is seen, rotate the scope as needed and repeat until level. No need to change zero distance either if you are already zeroed since all you look for is movement of the groups only along the vertical, not necessarily how high or low they are.

I note that many people successfully use the mirror method so it must work fine for people. It might be my eyes but it has never worked well for me. But it is a static method and cannot address any possible tracking error that may (or may not) exist in a scope. I use the above method because it eliminates one additional possible source of error (internal tracking in relation to external "level" sources). You already have the scope mounted on the gun and you are shooting it or ready to shoot anyway. Setting up the target to do it this way takes just a few minutes and then you KNOW that the system will track as expected. It has always seemed to be a simple and logical way to do it for me but it did come to my air gun use from long range firearm shooting.

 

[JamesD.]

Guys, if your scope has a flat area on bottom that matches any flat area on air gun or other, simply use a stack or two of feeler gauges. With that process & a plumb bob with white line all my scopes are perfect. Check through tightening to correct ft inches.

So, this contraption is a 000 grade square that seems to need FX No limit rings to work, yes? Height adjustable is a must it seems.

Instead of a bubble your eye just notices if your square isn’t or this is JUST for setting up? If that’s the case the feeler gauges work as well & tell you exact height, add 1/2 of bell & 1/2 barrel diameter to whatever the feeler gauges add up to. A bit more precise than 1.50”

I center my scopes in a mirror but also do a box test at 12 yards in basement on a perfectly level bench, target, plumb a foot in front of target. Unless a high quality rifle like a RAW mono block, Thompson or others I rarely see PERFECT alignment of end of bore, rail. If y’all notice most every barrel blank I’ve ever seen isn’t bored dead center. I still am not sure what’s up when I shoot, see the pellet rise & cross to dead center. From what I’m seeing. Pellet seems to be coming out of a right hand twist barrel & travels left to POA. By that thought it should continue dropping & moving left, hitting far left of target anywhere past my 32 yard zero. It doesn’t. It doesn’t go up or down when turrets turn reticle left or right or vice versa. It’s all set up right but I have no idea what I’m thinking I see. This changes with power levels. I can only catch a pellet at 900fps at most. I THINK, I’m pulling off after pellets leave muzzle. I’ve seen this in a vice though so maybe my eye movements.

 

[JamesD.]

The mirror method might be great, I've never heard if it til now. I just did what Nightforce recommended....they can't be that wrong.

The three other brands I tried made no mention at all as to the reticle being verified to be level with any particular part of the scope.

Hi Bob, 

I just want to help where I maybe able. Not a know it all & I’m pretty sure you know more than I in all things ballistic. The mirror trick I learned from Harry in OZ years ago. You usually need a bright bathroom light and of course a flat bell end. You set your scope up as you’d need it adjusted for clarity of reticle then on low through highest mag adjust turrets so ONE line is seen. Mark that setting with thin tape or chalk. Now compare clicks divided in 1/2 & you’ll be surprised as I’ve NEVER seen both match exactly and I trust my eyes more. Make sure your eye is at the relief you use to get a full field view. Then, check it with your eye pressed up close so the view is a tiny circle dead centered around the crosshairs.

I have an old Weaver K-2.5 I dissembled to clean. All glass inside & out is perfect except the mechanism that houses the crosshairs. I can’t wipe down the front as actual crosshairs block it at front bell end, ( no bell, just a 1” tube Weaver) but back ocular end shows glass in a brass square and an estimated 1/8” hole I’d like to get a Q-tip with 90% rubbing alcohol on as it’s smugged up thus I have a crystal clear outer field view & slightly bad dead center where I need it clear. Interesting compared to old Tasco, Redfield, Weaver 3/4” tube tunnel vision scopes that are crystal clear at crosshairs but distorted all around. 

So I know old scopes well enough but new sealed scopes, not educated. I know I hate FFP. I want etched reticle not thin wire or actual hair if you’re lucky enough to own scope that old. The Argon/ Nitrogen purged scopes are great, if they stay sealed. 

I’m really not sure what I need to spend to have the best range finding clear glass I can get without going over the SWFA HD I want if I can find it in 2nd FP with .10 mil quad reticle & 0.01 diamonds instead of obscuring dots. Seems you can get a dam good scope in the $350 to $2000 range. I don’t need a FT March 60 or 80x. I wonder if top tier 3-6k Hendsolt, G&R, S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski have glass that put any of the say Weaver T-36 for sale at Natchez for $370 (Original MSRP $759) Bushnell Elite or older 4700 at $476.00 to shame. I have a Hawke I’m impressed with at $212.00. I wasn’t impressed with the more expensive Sidewinder I had & sold for $275 as I considered it junk. Heck, 2 of my best glass scopes are old bought used off Yellow Japanese Banner & Trophy. Only thing I can say bad is they’re Duplex, not mil dots, quad, anything fancy.

Any advice on price point, brands where glass is great for air guns to 400 yards at MOST and affordable? As of now I’d be willing to spend as much as $2K but I think the SWFA HD 3x15x?? Mil quad is what I’ll get. Maybe grab that Weaver T-36 on sale for 200 yard BR shoots. 

 

[Bigragu]

I’m not going to add to all the great tips already given here, but what I’ve learned about setting up for anti can’t, scope leveling, etc. in the last year(from the great advisers here on AGN) has me at this conclusion- it’s best to have a minimum of at least three methods to spot check each other. Just like a detail oriented reloader checking for bullet seat depth by either smoking a bullet, blackening the ogive with a sharpie, or using the different tools, the point I’m making is to have several methods in your repertoire to check and recheck.

Now having said that, my now preferred methods are the Wheeler levels that Tomarco did reviews on as my initial level, from there the mirror method as outlined by NervousTrigger, and my final check is a perfect crosshair made out of blue painters tape taped up to one of the walls in my garage. I placed a four foot level and traced a pencil line against the wall at both plumb and level, then blue taped the edge of the tape on the line. This is easier for my own eyes to see, black crosshairs against blue tape, vs. a plumb bob set out in the front lawn. This is my final check for both crosshairs and the anti can’t level mounted on the scope. 

So, that’s three methods for me, and thanks to Bandg, I will now add a fourth by using his method of shooting against a target and dialing the elevation target. I like it, and makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Nutcracker]

Love it, Great idea. 

 

[nced]

Hummmm....in the vid, notice the scope tube marking from the Warne rings after turning the scope even though the top strap screws were only lightly tightened At around 3:20 in the vid.