Casting Ammo & Mix

[SonOfAGun]

In the early years of my shooting career I decimated an entire platoon of Gi Joe figurines and other plastic artillery. Shortly after that my first pellet gun was confiscated. As a kid, I stashed them under the mattress or wherever I could... somehow, mom still always found 'em!? I was almost like an arms dealer for Canadian Tire. If you wanted a pellet gun up to .22 and under 500fps ...I was the kid to talk to. For all those years I forgot all about those fun times! Now, in my "much much older" years I realize just how much fun they are and how much more powerful they have become! The recent addition to my collection is the Umarex Hammer .50 Cal. It truly is a beast and so fun to make slugs for! Instead of $2 a shot .... I make 'em for less than .10 cents a shot. It's also so much fun mixing and making your own ammo. Being able to fine tune hardness and quality has made a huge difference in both accuracy and with my pocket book.

I'm curious what Lead/Tin/Antimony mixes others would recommend. The bigger the slug the harder I make em. I've found that aside from pure Antimony ...a 96/4 flux wire makes lead a fair bit harder, too. I was surprised to find out that 12' of flux wire that I added to the 20lbs of melted lead made a noticeable difference in its hardness. Antimony can be tricky to mix and you have to be patient. The 96/4 (Lead Tin) Flux wire however melts right in. I always add 1% tin on top of that to all my melts to make sure it fills the mold nicely. Lastly, after the slug is casted, I drop them in ice cold water to get them a bit harder. Curious what you all do different? Always learning -

 

[Guite745]

No experience with air guns except the usual BB gun and pellet gun experiences as a kid.

I've been casting bullets for handgun and rifle since 1973. Learned a great deal from "Cast Bullets" (Col. E. H. Harrison, NRA publication) and the various Lyman cast bullet manuals, and have been mixing my casting metals for uses ranging from low pressure, low velocity handgun (generally under 800 FPS) to near full power rifle (up to around 2500 FPS). I've salvaged old wheel weights, lead plumbing pipe, printers type metals, lead-tin solder, just about everything except medical or lead-acid batteries (too many potential contamination issues for the hobbyist users to risk). At one time I purchased several hundred pounds of new linotype metal from a foundry (84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin) and used that in various blends with softer alloys to achieve the desired results.

In addition to the differences in hardness there will also be variations in finished weight and dimensions when different alloys are cast in the same molds. One example is my usual .30 caliber mold, Lee C309-170RF, which I use in .30-30, .30-40 Krag, .300 Savage, .308 Win, and .30-06. Casting in pure wheel weights (BHN ~12) results in typical weight 168 grains, diameter 0.3082"; while casting in pure linotype (BHN -22) results in 159 grains, diameter 0.3095". The differences result from densities of the alloys and shrinkage while cooling from liquid to solid.

At one time I experimented a bit using Zamak, a zinc die-casting alloy that can be handled using typical bullet casting equipment. Extremely hard and strong when compared to any of the common lead alloys, but with a density resulting in finished weights about 60% of what might be expected with lead alloys (a 200-grain .44 caliber SWC mold dropping Zamak bullets about 120 grains). These shoot quite well at handgun distances, and predictably can be driven to very high velocities (if that is a desired goal).

The differences in hardness are useful in withstanding higher pressures without excessive deformation. One potentially negative effect with the harder alloys is a tendency toward brittleness, clearly seen in terminal performance resulting in fracturing or shearing off of the metal rather than the more desired expansion by mushrooming during penetration. My molds include several hollow-point styles, and those demonstrate this tendency when used on game animals such as mule deer, with bullet nose sections fragmenting down and leaving the bullet bodies as a blunt-ended cylinder that continues penetrating (shedding energy as weight is decreased until stopping).

My goals have always been to match the casting alloy to the intended usage. For basic handgun range practice ammo just about any lead alloy that casts reasonably well will provide the desired performance level. For magnum-level handgun performance I will increase the hardness (generally in the range of BHN 15-16). For higher performance and long-range accuracy in higher pressure rifle cartridges I have further increased alloy hardness into the range of BHN 18-20 or so.

This field has expanded my enjoyment of shooting for 50 years now. There is a lot to learn, and a great deal of research has been done and published that can help in guiding us to the results we want. My initial motivation was economy, producing ammo at minimal costs, but over the years I have come to enjoy the challenges and processes as much as the actual shooting.

(for the uninitiated, BHN refers to Brinell Hardness Number, a scale for comparing the relative hardness of varying compositions in alloys).

 

[SonOfAGun]

Guite

Thank you for that information! It's so nice to hear that someone has been casting so long! Some great information so thank you very much!!
I've purchased some antimony but have yet to use it because I'm not sure my Lee Production pot will melt it. I figure maybe instead I'll use a torch? I was told to be patient that it will eventually melt. Just a bit hesitant -

 

[cosmic]

Pure lead here..

 

[wdr2]

FYI - I cast all of my standard velocity handgun bullets (up to 1000fps, 32 to 475 caliber) out of wheel weight alloy with 2%tin added. One of the best resources for bullet casting is "From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners" by Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate. Available here: http://www.lasc.us/fryxell_book_contents.htm

 

[cosmic]

.30 60-63gr NOE cast at 1000 fps

 

[SonOfAGun]

.30 60-63gr NOE cast at 1000 fps

Fascinating! Those are some good numbers!! And no fouling of the barrel? Accuracy is still decent @ 100 yards out? And, are you shooting the slug or the pellet mold from NOE?

 

[cosmic]

yes and barely any leading after waxing the barrel..

 

[BSJ]

Soft is better. Fit is King.

The old days of trying for harder and harder alloys was a blind alley. Talking centerfire.

I got full power 9mm Parabellum to shoot with zero leading in a 16" barrel by going soft and using .358 bullets that fit the bore. Lee liquid alox for lube. No magic colorful coatings needed.

Of course, went through laying down strips of lead when I tried old-fashioned hard and too small first. Kept going softer and bigger till it worked.

I've got two 5 gal. buckets of old wheelweights. Useless! Too damn hard...

Airguns. Use dead soft lead. Period.

 

[SonOfAGun]

Soft is better. Fit is King.

The old days of trying for harder and harder alloys was a blind alley. Talking centerfire.

I got full power 9mm Parabellum to shoot with zero leading in a 16" barrel by going soft and using .358 bullets that fit the bore. Lee liquid alox for lube. No magic colorful coatings needed.

Of course, went through laying down strips of lead when I tried old-fashioned hard and too small first. Kept going softer and bigger till it worked.

I've got two 5 gal. buckets of old wheelweights. Useless! Too damn hard...

Airguns. Use dead soft lead. Period.

Well, this has been very informative! I have casted 4 separate mixes to test at the range. I'll report back to this thread when I get the chance. I'll be very curious to see the differences from each as I test them out. Keep ya'll posted

As for the Lee Liquid Alox, I have never ever lubed my slugs for either of my PCP's or Umarex Hammer. Is this something you always do? Lube that is?

 

[Scotchmo]

.284 (7mm) NOE, 106gr-107gr at 1050fps.

.278 bore diameter, .284 groove diameter. Roll in lithi-bee lube and size to .001” under groove diameter.

And another airgun using .257 Arsenal 71gr-72gr at 1005fps.

I never noticed any leading, but I run a couple of dry patches through periodically.

I use whatever lead I can get. It’s mostly been old dive and fishing weights. Most slugs tend to come out a little heavier than the listed mold specification, so I suspect only very minor amounts of other metals in the mix.

I have a little bit of linotype and they come out about 9% lighter. I have not tested any of the linotype slugs.

 

[coffeepan]

Casting pure Pb & 2% Sn alloy. Worked best for myself and many people I know. Dry Silicone spray as lubricant. In the EU, a jar like this.

The casting pot was hand made in Germany, I don't remember anything else but the builder's first name, which I think was Stephan.

Bought way too many molds + 100 pcs... Have been cast .22-.510
Nowadays mostly only a few calibers .30 for Corsair and few .357. And at the moment, casting only airguns.

 

[SonOfAGun]

Casting pure Pb & 2% Sn alloy. Worked best for myself and many people I know. Dry Silicone spray as lubricant. In the EU, a jar like this.

The casting pot was hand made in Germany, I don't remember anything else but the builder's first name, which I think was Stephan.

Bought way too many molds + 100 pcs... Have been cast .22-.510
Nowadays mostly only a few calibers .30 for Corsair and few .357. And at the moment, casting only airguns.

And no issues with oxidization? I've tried a few things over the years but ran into oxidization issues with a white powder all over my slugs. I re-melted and have not tried any lube since -

 

[BSJ]

Well, this has been very informative! I have casted 4 separate mixes to test at the range. I'll report back to this thread when I get the chance. I'll be very curious to see the differences from each as I test them out. Keep ya'll posted

As for the Lee Liquid Alox, I have never ever lubed my slugs for either of my PCP's or Umarex Hammer. Is this something you always do? Lube that is?

LLA is only for firearms.

I use Lube 1 for my airguns.

 

[coffeepan]

And no issues with oxidization? I've tried a few things over the years but ran into oxidization issues with a white powder all over my slugs. I re-melted and have not tried any lube since -

Already casted and sized with that lube no oxidation on "bullets" even if they have been standing in a ziplock bag or plastic box for years.

Thinking more closely, I haven't noticed oxidation even in those that haven't been lubricated or sized to the right diameter yet.
I'll check and take a picture when I have time in the afternoon

Large lead ingots and sheet lead only oxidizes, but it has been habit to flux them with sawdust in a separate pot and make them into smaller ingots before casting

 

[coffeepan]

The last casted were done at least 2.5 years ago. Unlubed and unsized on the left side and lubricated and sized on the right side.
I don't see much of a difference myself. No oxidation, stored at room temperature in a ziplock bag and/or plastic box.

 

[SonOfAGun]

The last casted were done at least 2.5 years ago. Unlubed and unsized on the left side and lubricated and sized on the right side.
I don't see much of a difference myself. No oxidation, stored at room temperature in a ziplock bag and/or plastic

Thank you for the picture! Good to know. I'll give some of that dry silicone spray a try!

 

[coffeepan]

you're welcome!
I think it is a good chemical for this purpose.

 

[SonOfAGun]

Well, if you are happy with your results then I must give it a try. I'll report back and let you know what my findings are. Thank you again for sharing this with all of us.

 

[coffeepan]

After seeing other topics and in them the same chemical mentioned in this form or different... I myself have only used a chemical in question for sizing slugs and bullets. Not as a lubricant for any other place in airgun or anything else.
As someone already mentioned in another topic, metal against metal and the substance in question brings big and even irreparable problems. Don't use it!
Sizing and lubing slugs and bullets, this chemical has worked well for more than 10 years, as you can see from the date on one of the pictures. Then there has been nothing but benefit. But only sizing and lubricating slugs and bullets. Thanks.