Can we be honest about group sizes?

[tommyb]

Where can I get some of these NUAH targets? I almost always just shoot groups on some steel sheets and then go look if it’s a really small group lol! I end up shooting a lot of groups before I get a good one. When I measured the group of 28 shots at 100 yards I realized that it was a little over two inches and not a little group at all! I’d definitely do poorly at a match and I don’t have any skill at shooting between heart beats yet…that’s literally split second timing and it’s beyond my skill level lol! I like the idea of shooting at paper because it would slow me down and I would be more aware of each shot. Shooting the steel you just abandon a crappy group and move to a clear area to try the next group. I really like this whole thread and have enjoyed it tremendously…tommyb, that .30 Raw is going to be awesome at long range. In desperate times I sold my Raw and have always regretted it. I’ll definitely get one again someday, built as well as my Theoben and I like the side lever better than the bolt too.

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Dave,

I also wanted to find the NUAH targets, so I asked Jimmy to ( Camp Fuss ) to send me the PDF file. Also, Jimmy gave me a good idea in that he gets a stack of these NUAH targets printed ( i.e., at like an Office Depot or Office Max as an example). I got 100 NUAH targetsprinted using 110lb thick paper and maybe spent $15, but worth it for me since I like using vs. just printer paper. Much easier to get more precise holes for me anyway.

One other tip if you are not in some type of competition "timed" BR speed event - If you use your Single Shot Tray (SST) and single load vs. using a magazine, it does slow you down. Gives you time to think and practice your technique, breathing, hold, etc. For casual practice the SST can also shoot with better accuracy ( at least with my guns and my experience) than using the magazine. I always use SST when shooting 50 or 100 yard in less I am in a hurry, which I never am. ( retired ) 

View attachment 1581404960_2774437825e425320d98449.57468194_NUAH Target Scoring White.pdf

 

[davelarson]

Perfect! Thanks tommyb, I’m going to have some printed on the heavy paper as well. I’m probably missing something... but how large should they be printed? Is the bull one inch?

 

[tommyb]

Dave,

The NUAH targets are standard letter size ( 8 1/2 " X 11" ) and the PDF file I previously attached has the correct measurements when printed. I cannot specifically recall if I had Office Depot print at 100% or not, but The "X" ring is 1" in diameter. Also, it is exactly 4" in diameter between the 4 MOA circle and the 8 ring circle. Try printing the PDF file on your home printer and take the measurements, and if they equal the above you are good to go. I actually put the PDF on a Flash drive and had them use that for printing vs. bringing in a hard copy.

Tom

 

[DanielL]

Great thread. I've been working hard to reduce my group sizes and I know I'm a very competitive shooter when put up against almost anyone I've shot with...yet I struggle to get 1/2" groups my 42 yard backyard range, let alone 100.

 

[nomojo65]

This did this! 18.1’s “the only thing this barrel likes?”

 

[nomojo65]

2-28-20 20mph gusting to 30mph! 65yds, 20 shots each target, top 20.2 NSA, bottom 25.4jsb Daystate RW Target dia. 2.5in.

 

[Drumsnguns]

Sometimes I get stupid tight groups at 50 and 100. Not remembering right now but I've had 5-shot groups below an inch at 100 and less then 1/2" at 50 and 60 yards. When I see this I think to myself that I was having a good day, but I also think...OK these groups indicate what this gun is capable of, especially when I can truthfully say I've been able to repeat these groups, not consistently, but I have done it . BUT, you can't ignore the other variables, like wind, ammo quality, gun tune and yourself.

My basic belief is 3 shots shows your rifle's ability and 5 or more reflects on you. Still though, I do like to keep some groups going up to ten shots just to see.

I think on any given day, I can shoot one really good target for every 5 targets, some days a little better , some days, worse and some days I just put the gun away and do something else . I'm no pro ....just having some fun.

 

[Centercut]

I went out yesterday to test the .25 EDGun R5 with slugs and pellets. Spent some time at 50 yards, and got decent results but not good enough to move to 100 yards. So before I left, I decided to shoot the last two EBR style targets (9 ring 1.2 inch) with the .22 EDGun R3 Long with RD Monsters at 960 FPS. I had recently moved the speed up from 925 to 960 based on a friend’s recommendation. Wind was approx 12 to 15 mph. 95 yards. 

Accuracy improved with the RD Monsters but interestingly, accuracy decreased with its favorite .217 NSA 20.2 grain slugs, which went from 980 to 1025 FPS. Unexpected consequences of tweaking...

 

[jaird]

Eye opening for a novice like me. Thanks to all.

 

[Centercut]

Sometimes you’re the windshield, sometimes you’re the bug. Today Mother Nature was the windshield. Went to shoot with the .30 FX Bobcat and got spanked. Not only was it very windy, it was swirling like crazy, making this the best I could do. Additionally since it was early afternoon and sunny, and I was shooting prone, the mirage made it very hard to tell exactly where the bullseyes were on the target. Scope is an Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50, same rig I shot with at EBR 2019. 

 

[davelarson]

Wow, that’s really impressive. I have a hard time reading the wind. I have flags on my range so I can tell what direction it’s blowing, but when it’s swirling I’m just guessing. And with my .20 cal it’s not even worth trying at all if there’s any wind. I was wondering about something I noticed on a windy day, if I remember right there was a breeze coming down the hill and my shots seemed to be going high? Can’t remember exactly what the conditions were, but it really confused me. Can wind make your shots climb? 

 

[Centercut]

Thanks Dave... No wind makes your shots climb, but it can make them drop less. For pellets, it the wind is coming right at you, it will drop slightly more than without wind. But, if the wind is quartering at you from the right, it will also drop more than expected. If the wind is quartering from the left however, it will drop less than expected. That's for pellets, with quartering winds, slugs are the opposite...

 

[davelarson]

Thanks Centercut. That makes perfect sense. I bet it was wind causing the pellets to drop less, and I thought my shots were climbing! Lol... I’m not quite ready for competition yet ha ha. 

 

[Centercut]

No problem. When the wind is swirling it makes it really hard to shoot good scores. On the card above, I was also shooting some sighters on card lower left of this card. Its difficult when you shoot a sighter, then immediately hold off the same on the target and it goes two inches left (or right, or an inch up or down). Consistent winds are much easier to shoot in, more than likely even easier than when its calm but with varying wind direction. Finals day at EBR 2019 was light winds, but swirling. Someone watching would wonder why the scores were relatively low in these light wind conditions, when the scores at RMAC with much heavier winds were similar. Its the difference between winds changing directions and winds remaining the same direction but only varying is speed. When I started backpacking in the Sierras about ten years ago, I asked "how do I train to carry a 45 pound pack in rough terrain for 15 miles per day"? The answer was to carry a 45 pound backpack in rough terrain. Same for shooting in the wind. The only way to get good at it is to do it, and do it often...

Mike

 

[Smok3y]

I just started shooting 100 yards after staying safe at 50 yards for a long time because I like shooting tiny stuff. I ventured out to 100yd when Michael put up one of those weekly challenges during the last couple weeks, and I'll admit I'm addicted. Much harder and humbling. It is hard from going at 50 and feeling like you are going to hit what you are aiming at every time, to going to 100 and hoping to keep them close. I never new the wind could play so many tricks. I appreciate this thread, because it has also made me realize that people are not shooting tiny little groups at 100 all day. I will get some pics up when I go back out to 100 again. I'm getting low on pellets and I want to shoot even more out at 100 than at 50. I can stop at 40-50 shots at 50 and be happy, but at 100, I keep trying and trying for better understanding of what to expect. 

The even harder part is that I was wanting to downgrade from my .30 to something that I could shoot cheaper, but now that I am shooting at 100yds more, I'm not sure I still want to go down that road.