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Can factory filling preasure be increased after installing a regulator?

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Its a little more complicated than that... I'll give you an example from about 3 or 4 years ago with a .22 Daystate Renegade.

The gun had a SWP of 220 bar, and worked great from about 210 down to 140 bar with the usual unregulated bell curve, which was fairly flat. I wanted to shoot the gun in Benchrest, and wanted to regulate the gun for a perfectly flat shot curve (and additional shots per fill). The gun's pressure tube was labelled as 300 bar SWP (safe working pressure). The Huma regulator was rated at 250 bar SWP (I think they are now rated to 300 bar, not sure). So since the regulator fit inside the pressure tube, and no pressure greater than reg. pressure (140 bar) was ever felt in the rest of the gun downstream of the regulator, I routinely filled to 250 bar.

I don't recommend filling your gun in excess of the SWP, but obviously from strictly an engineering standpoint it isn't unsafe in situations that are evaluated prior to doing it...
 
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Yeah nobody will recommend that you fill past the recommendation on your gun and reg...... That being said I know several people who do it. Most of them just fill to 3600 but I must warn you that you should not do this unless you have a knowledge of what's safe. The guys I'm talking about know exactly what metal they are working with and take measurements to make certain that they have a safety factor of 3 and they shore up problem areas with extra bolts and whatnot around the reg or valve or end cap. Short story don't do it. Long story I know people who do it safely but they are experts
 
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I put a Huma in a .22 Maximus and fill to 3000. Works fine. 30 shots with nice even fps. I do not know what the max. shot count is. It is my grab and go pester.
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Works "fine" till it doesn't. What's the difference if the 3000 psi is pressing on the valve (screws)? or it's pressing on the regulator.......which is pressing on the valve? If Crosman felt it safe to have 3000psi pressing on the valve they would have likely rated it SAFE at 3000 and not 2000. SMH
 
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I am waiting on a Altaros bottle regulator for my Benjamin Kratos, it was sipped from the continent 11 days ago and USPS tracking does not show anything but preshipment. It is rated at 3650 psi on the bottle side and 24 FPE on the valve side. I have a 4500 psi cf bottle on the Kratos now and fully intend to fill the bottle to 3650psi after the regulator install. Having said that, for now it only gets 3000 psi fills.

I am not after power, I am after a high shot count at 550-650 fps, and feel perfectly safe doing so.

Regards,

Roachcreek 
 
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I am waiting on a Altaros bottle regulator for my Benjamin Kratos, it was sipped from the continent 11 days ago and USPS tracking does not show anything but preshipment. It is rated at 3650 psi on the bottle side and 24 FPE on the valve side. I have a 4500 psi cf bottle on the Kratos now and fully intend to fill the bottle to 3650psi after the regulator install. Having said that, for now it only gets 3000 psi fills.

I am not after power, I am after a high shot count at 550-650 fps, and feel perfectly safe doing so.

Regards,

Roachcreek
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COMPLETELY different situation then an "in-tube" regulator like the Maximus. Your valve and tube of gun only sees the output pressure, not the tank pressure.......unless of course your reg fails.
 
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When you install a regulator with in the air tube that has a filling valve and a manometer at the end of the tube (close to the top of the barrel /shoroud), the maximum preasure is from the regulator to the top (manometer and filling valve) of the air tube, (for example 200 bar).

From the regulator to the internal parts of the rifle the maximum preassure will be the one the regulator is set to, (for example 140 bar), which is far below the normal one operating preasure allowed under factory specifications.

Then, I think, what should be in risk is not the rifle nor the internal parts, but the air tube and the seals of the filling valve and of the manometer.

Correct?
 
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Its a little more complicated than that... I'll give you an example from about 3 or 4 years ago with a .22 Daystate Renegade.

The gun had a SWP of 220 bar, and worked great from about 210 down to 140 bar with the usual unregulated bell curve, which was fairly flat. I wanted to shoot the gun in Benchrest, and wanted to regulate the gun for a perfectly flat shot curve (and additional shots per fill). The gun's pressure tube was labelled as 300 bar SWP (safe working pressure). The Huma regulator was rated at 250 bar SWP (I think they are now rated to 300 bar, not sure). So since the regulator fit inside the pressure tube, and no pressure greater than reg. pressure (140 bar) was ever felt in the rest of the gun downstream of the regulator, I routinely filled to 250 bar.

I don't recommend filling your gun in excess of the SWP, but obviously from strictly an engineering standpoint it isn't unsafe in situations that are evaluated prior to doing it...
Click to expand...

Please explain the last paragraph “I don’t recommend filling...”.

Thanks 
 
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When you install a regulator with in the air tube that has a filling valve and a manometer at the end of the tube (close to the top of the barrel /shoroud), the maximum preasure is from the regulator to the top (manometer and filling valve) of the air tube, (for example 200 bar).

From the regulator to the internal parts of the rifle the maximum preassure will be the one the regulator is set to, (for example 140 bar), which is far below the normal one operating preasure allowed under factory specifications.

Then, I think, what should be in risk is not the rifle nor the internal parts, but the air tube and the seals of the filling valve and of the manometer.

Correct?
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With the majority of tube guns the aftermarket regulator is "secured" in the tube via the air pressure against the valve (or gauge block) Without the regulator the force exerted on the valve is from the fill pressure. When a regulator is placed into the tube and is forced against the valve, the valve body(securing hardware) is still seeing "fill pressure". Sure the poppet is seeing the regulated pressure, but the valve body and it's securing hardware is still seeing the fill. For this reason the original maximum recommend fill pressure should not be exceeded. Make sense?

The other issue is what would happen if the regulator fails and stops regulating? Then, if you filled the 2900 psi gun to 4500 psi, this is the pressure the poppet is now seeing.
 
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bigtinboat 
The other issue is what would happen if the regulator fails and stops regulating? Then, if you filled the 2900 psi gun to 4500 psi, this is the pressure the poppet is now seeing.

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Correct, but that is just as true for a bottle gun as a tube gun.

If the tube and high pressure side parts have a design SWP of 300 bar, and the regulator is sealed by an oring pressed against the breech block tube connection (not the threads), then it’s just as “safe” as using an external bottle regulator.

I said I wouldn’t recommend it because most don’t have the background to technically evaluate the DM (design margin) of that specific situation. In the care of my example, the tube actually was stamped with 300 bar SWP, and the fill plug and fitting are also as a matter of design manufactured to that same SWP (or higher). The pressure from the reg pressing against the downstream breech block tube connection was not a concern as it was compressive in nature and did not use the threads to hold any applied force. Just IMHO.
 
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bigtinboat 
The other issue is what would happen if the regulator fails and stops regulating? Then, if you filled the 2900 psi gun to 4500 psi, this is the pressure the poppet is now seeing.

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Correct, but that is just as true for a bottle gun as a tube gun.

If the tube and high pressure side parts have a design SWP of 300 bar, and the regulator is sealed by an oring pressed against the breech block tube connection (not the threads), then it’s just as “safe” as using an external bottle regulator.

I said I wouldn’t recommend it because most don’t have the background to technically evaluate the DM (design margin) of that specific situation. In the care of my example, the tube actually was stamped with 300 bar SWP, and the fill plug and fitting are also as a matter of design manufactured to that same SWP (or higher). The pressure from the reg pressing against the downstream breech block tube connection was not a concern as it was compressive in nature and did not use the threads to hold any applied force. Just IMHO.
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The OP has stated that the FACTORY MAX RECOMMENDATION is 2900, so why bother to add 300bar?

Who said anything about the regulator being installed against a breech block? I was referring to a situation such as with a Disco or Maximus.

It would probably be best if the OP would tell everyone what gun he s thinking about doing this to.
 
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Can you increase factory max filling preasure on a non regulated rifle after installing a regulator on it?

If the answer is yes, if factory max was 2900 psi, where you can take it safely? 

I will appreciate your advice.

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A reg will not magically change the pressure that your air tube or bottle will handle. My air tube on my Cometa was rated for 220b when the gun was unregulated. I installed a reg and still only fill the tube to 220b. Now on the other hand, my Dreamline had a 230b tube on it. I installed a CF bottle rated for 300b. I now fill to 250b. Why not 300b? Because my reg isn’t rated to handle 300b. My Prod has a reg that will handle 250b, I am not going to start filling that questionable tube beyond the 3,000psi that Crosman deemed safe.
 
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IMG_20210212_115526068.1613153209.jpg
This is the rifle in which I installed the original regulator of my Vulcan 2 .30 Cal. 

The block says 22 MPa max.

According to my conversion software it is about 3,100 psi.

The tube do not have any pressure data.

The maximum pressure for the Vulcan 2 is 250 bar. So that is also the pressure supported by the regulator.

If my conversion software do not fail, 3,100 psi is on specifications. My question was if it was safe to go from 3,100 psi to something around 3,400 psi.
 
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I’m in the same boat with my Cometa. My pressure rating is on my breech and not the tube. Without knowing what the tube is truly rated for, I error on the side of caution and just fill the gun to 200b. I mistakenly said 220b in my last post because I haven’t shot the gun in a while. Overfilling guns for just a couple extra shots just isn’t worth risking what we don’t understand.
image_2.1613153723.jpg

 
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