Can an inconsistent 1 stage regulator, cause creep on the second stage regulator? FX Impact M3

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TonvanderLinden

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Apr 23, 2022
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Noord Brabant, Netherlands
Hi there fellow air junkies,

When shooting my M3 at the range, I noticed a change in consistency on paper the more I shot my rifle. At some point I found out that, during shooting, my second regulator pressure would rise around 10 bar with the original FX reg installed. I brought the rifle to Krale in The Netherlands, and had them take it apart and install a Huma 2nd HP reg. They didn't find any other problems and I was told the rifle functions as it should. But the creep is still there! With the huma reg installed it now creeps to 4-6bar during shooting.

The first regulator also creeps up during shooting (10-15bar), but the guy at Krale said this shouldn't affect consistancy and he left it as it is. I'm now wondering if this is really the case. What are your thoughts on this? Should I get a 1st stage Huma reg also?

The set pressures are: 1st reg: 150bar, second reg: 185bar (Zan 37gr)


Thanks in advance and greetings from The Netherlands!
 
TonvanderLinden said:
Hi there fellow air junkies,

When shooting my M3 at the range, I noticed a change in consistency on paper the more I shot my rifle. At some point I found out that, during shooting, my second regulator pressure would rise around 10 bar with the original FX reg installed. I brought the rifle to Krale in The Netherlands, and had them take it apart and install a Huma 2nd HP reg. They didn't find any other problems and I was told the rifle functions as it should. But the creep is still there! With the huma reg installed it now creeps to 4-6bar during shooting.

The first regulator also creeps up during shooting (10-15bar), but the guy at Krale said this shouldn't affect consistancy and he left it as it is. I'm now wondering if this is really the case. What are your thoughts on this? Should I get a 1st stage Huma reg also?

The set pressures are: 1st reg: 150bar, second reg: 185bar (Zan 37gr)


Thanks in advance and greetings from The Netherlands!
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Uhhhhhh, isn't the first (tank) suppose to be higher than the second? I had a single reg creep but never a two reg.
 
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The second regulator should easily be able to regulate within 1 bar consistency. Since it’s at 150 bar I think the spring stack will be limiting in your case, if that’s running on its end you will get some creep in pressure because it can’t seal properly anymore. I wouldn’t care about the regulation of the first reg, as long as it stays above you second reg you won’t see any effect. What I normally do is set first reg at 200 bar and I don’t touch it again.

The huma reg will not give you any better consistency then the original. And FX now has brass pistons in their regs so that is also not a limit anymore for going up >160 bar.
 
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broekzwans said:
The second regulator should easily be able to regulate within 1 bar consistency. Since it’s at 150 bar I think the spring stack will be limiting in your case, if that’s running on its end you will get some creep in pressure because it can’t seal properly anymore. I wouldn’t care about the regulation of the first reg, as long as it stays above you second reg you won’t see any effect. What I normally do is set first reg at 200 bar and I don’t touch it again.

The huma reg will not give you any better consistency then the original. And FX now has brass pistons in their regs so that is also not a limit anymore for going up >160 bar.
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Thanks (dankjewel) for your reply. The Huma reg I've got installed is a Gen 3 HP, wich can be adjusted between 110-165bar. Since it has been recently installed, I'm guessing it has nothing to do with the regulator itself.

There was one other thing about the way the gun was setup, that made me wonder if it had anything to do with the pressure difference. Namely; I was taught to tune my M3 by opening the valve out 1.5-2 turns beyond line four, maxing out the hammer spring, up the second reg untill ballpark speed was achieved and then work my way back. (beginning with lowering the hammer spring, until speed it begins to drop and then repeat this process with the valve adjuster.) Before today, the valve on my tunes always was between 1.5 and 2 turns beyond line 4, otherwise I would lose to much speed. When I was shooting pellets this method gave me oké results, but the day I jumped the slug bandwagon my consistancy was out the door.

Today I tried something different. Instead of beginning at 1.5\2 turns out from line 4 on the valve, I started out with my valve adjuster around line 4, upped the 2nd reg until ballpark speed and then tuned the hammerspring and valve. (The way Matt Dubber explains in his 'The ULTIMATE Tuning Guide for High Power PCP's' video) This means I now use (way) less valve but higher 2nd reg pressures. From my first impressions the gun is more consistent over the chrony. I shot around 40 shots, checked my 2nd reg after every few shots and low and behold; the second reg returned to its set pressure (to a tenth of a bar) every single time!

I can't really wrap my head around how this would make the second reg more consistant. But in the back of my mind the valve setting, using the old method, always concerned me. Do you agree, this might be part of the problem?




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The only reason your second reg is more consistent is because it has finally settled. You finally cycled it enough that it’s behaving. Now all you have to look forward to is if you keep fiddling with it, it will eventually start behaving badly again. I personally don’t use the internet tuning method on any of my Impacts. I don’t believe in smashing the crap out of my valve with repetitive hammer strikes and chase it with my reg setting. I pick a reg setting, set my wheel on Max, micro on 3, then go 4 clicks at a time with the micro until I hit the peak speed for that reg setting. If it’s not fast enough, I up the reg and pick up where I left off with the micro. When I get the peak speed I’m looking for, then I tune down with the wheel. Then tune down with the valve. This whole process is much easier on the gun.
 
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