Or is there some type of air transfer port that requires the barrel to be in a certain position?
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Can an FX Royale 400 barrel be indexed?
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Maybe the barrel doesn't need indexing? But you'd have to ask Fredrik himself as he is the one that straightens the barrels (at least according to the video below). But something tells me that if Fredrik has anything to do with it, if the barrels need indexing, then they probably already have been.
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With stock parts on the 400 the brass loading part that is attached to the rear of the barrel has a port which needs to be inline with the action.
Or a loss of power will happen.
Special parts would need to be made to keep it inline while turning the barrel.
Or a loss of power will happen.
Special parts would need to be made to keep it inline while turning the barrel.
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Yes should have explained a little better. Indexing a barrel especially when it shows right to left or left to right would be high on my list. But my FX Royale Independence does not show any correction needed. But if it did I would certainly correct it and find the correct spot. And it would not be a piece of cake to do. But then the impossible only seems to take a little longer.
Here is a picture of a spare barrel showing the loading end with the brass part. The top picture shows the bottom port which must be aligned with port in receiver. The port in the receiver was drilled from the top of the receiver. Which resulted in a construction hole being made on top of the receiver. On top of the receiver the first 2 set screws hold the barrel and the 3rd set screw is there just to simply seal up the construction hole. So the 3rd set screw should have some sealant on the threads but need not be tighten down on the brass piece.
The first 2 set screws touch the barrel and I installed small flats so the make good contact as can be seen in the bottom picture.
Now for how I might proceed with modify parts. I would first order a new brass piece from AOA just to have around. That brass piece has a O.D. of .392 inch and the center hole being .251 inch. That gives a wall thickness of .142. The 2 o-rings 5.28 x 1.78 keep that area from leaking. The port hole is .154 in diameter which is .018 sq. inch and is located close to the o-ring as can be seen.
I would machine a groove in the brass part about 1/32 from the o-ring completely around the brass part to a depth of .060 inch and about .160 wide. And it would be right over the port hole. If the barrel was indexed there would be 2 passage ways to the port which would be approximately .019 sq. inch. With the hopes of not losing any power with the extra distance and passage the air would need to travel. If it only lost a little power but more than I wanted to make up with the hammer adjustment then I would mark the barrel when properly indexed and then most likely redrill the brass part with a new port hole or see how the spare part would fit and align up.
Like I said not a piece of cake and then you would need to contend the shroud design and needing to adjust for the barrel turning. My Independence has a full length shroud making things much simpler. If I have lost you with this idea it is probably because I have not the need to do it yet and do not show a progress story. Here is a interesting read that deals with the 3 level power adjustment and the work needed.
http://users.snip.net/~mogul/air/poweradjuster.pdf
And after I got it installed just could not remember the dots so another job was needed.
Here is a picture of a spare barrel showing the loading end with the brass part. The top picture shows the bottom port which must be aligned with port in receiver. The port in the receiver was drilled from the top of the receiver. Which resulted in a construction hole being made on top of the receiver. On top of the receiver the first 2 set screws hold the barrel and the 3rd set screw is there just to simply seal up the construction hole. So the 3rd set screw should have some sealant on the threads but need not be tighten down on the brass piece.
The first 2 set screws touch the barrel and I installed small flats so the make good contact as can be seen in the bottom picture.
Now for how I might proceed with modify parts. I would first order a new brass piece from AOA just to have around. That brass piece has a O.D. of .392 inch and the center hole being .251 inch. That gives a wall thickness of .142. The 2 o-rings 5.28 x 1.78 keep that area from leaking. The port hole is .154 in diameter which is .018 sq. inch and is located close to the o-ring as can be seen.
I would machine a groove in the brass part about 1/32 from the o-ring completely around the brass part to a depth of .060 inch and about .160 wide. And it would be right over the port hole. If the barrel was indexed there would be 2 passage ways to the port which would be approximately .019 sq. inch. With the hopes of not losing any power with the extra distance and passage the air would need to travel. If it only lost a little power but more than I wanted to make up with the hammer adjustment then I would mark the barrel when properly indexed and then most likely redrill the brass part with a new port hole or see how the spare part would fit and align up.
Like I said not a piece of cake and then you would need to contend the shroud design and needing to adjust for the barrel turning. My Independence has a full length shroud making things much simpler. If I have lost you with this idea it is probably because I have not the need to do it yet and do not show a progress story. Here is a interesting read that deals with the 3 level power adjustment and the work needed.
http://users.snip.net/~mogul/air/poweradjuster.pdf
And after I got it installed just could not remember the dots so another job was needed.
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Yup, just purchased a used Royale 400. IMO indexing is a key component in achieving maximum accuracy at various distances. The FX Elite must have a different air transfer port because I've read of shooters indexing those barrels. Oh well, I need to spend some time with her to see what she can do.
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Miachel before you monkey with that gun. It was suppose to be set up to be as accurate as possible by AoA. I paid them 350.00 to do what they called Custom Tune. I was told they would do everything possible to make gun as accurate as possible. when asked what things they do to it. Somethings I remember they mentioned crown barrel and change barrels till they get one that was hole in hole at 20. Yards, polish everything, complete trigger polish and set. Set regulater to high 34 fps and 2nd power 19 fps. Plus what ever it took to make it premium.
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I totally agree to try a new gun out before any changes are made, and as example mine showed no reason to index the barrel. Within the different ranges that it is used it shows no variation that could be detected. But if it was an easier task to perform then it would have been done just to verify that belief.
On the other hand I have never seen a FX smooth twist barrel not being capable of stacking pellets at a mere 20 yards. But a one hole group at any single range has nothing to do with the reason for indexing the barrel. It is a proven fact that barrel indexing done correctly can result in a straighter shooting rifle at all ranges.
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"But a one hole group at any single range has nothing to do with the reason for indexing the barrel. It is a proven fact that barrel indexing done correctly can result in a straighter shooting rifle at all ranges."
My thoughts exactly. If it were "easy" to index then I would consider it. My plans for this rifle are much more than stacking pellets at 20 yards. I've only had a few sessions with it, and there is no doubt that I need more trigger time. Also I only have JSB 18g 5.52 pellets and I would like to try the 5.53 pellets. My initial impressions are good, just not great. I found the Steyr I once owned easier to shoot. That being said, I just reworked the trigger and I hope that helps improve things.
Now "if I could only find the time that I want to kill".
My thoughts exactly. If it were "easy" to index then I would consider it. My plans for this rifle are much more than stacking pellets at 20 yards. I've only had a few sessions with it, and there is no doubt that I need more trigger time. Also I only have JSB 18g 5.52 pellets and I would like to try the 5.53 pellets. My initial impressions are good, just not great. I found the Steyr I once owned easier to shoot. That being said, I just reworked the trigger and I hope that helps improve things.
Now "if I could only find the time that I want to kill".
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Reworked the trigger. Mike you talking about the gun you bought from me. I loved the light trigger.
I do not know what you are talking about as far as indexing goes but if it helps I would think AoA already did that.
Try 15.89 JSB pellets
Thanks Kenn
I do not know what you are talking about as far as indexing goes but if it helps I would think AoA already did that.
Try 15.89 JSB pellets
Thanks Kenn
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Well the best way for me to explain is not to when we have experts on that subject.
It would be interesting to know how big a circle my barrel would create? Can't think of any barrel being perfect, so advantages most likely can be had.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1394256650/Barrel+rotation+-+indexing+and+possible+effect+on+POI+of+different+pellets.
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In simple terms: there are very few (if any) barrels that are perfectly straight. Take for example this drawing which depicts an exaggerated but ideal indexing.
Pretend its a clock with 12 hours. If you were to aim at the X in the center, take one shot at 12 o'clock, rotate your barrel to 1 o'clock, then 2 o'clock, etc. What you would likely see is an oval shaped pattern. Ideally you want to have the smallest variables located at 12 o'clock & 6 o'clock. So that your POI only varies vertically. This is accentuated at greater distances. The theory behind this is that its easier to compensate for just vertical POI shift, as opposed to both vertical & horizontal.
Pretend its a clock with 12 hours. If you were to aim at the X in the center, take one shot at 12 o'clock, rotate your barrel to 1 o'clock, then 2 o'clock, etc. What you would likely see is an oval shaped pattern. Ideally you want to have the smallest variables located at 12 o'clock & 6 o'clock. So that your POI only varies vertically. This is accentuated at greater distances. The theory behind this is that its easier to compensate for just vertical POI shift, as opposed to both vertical & horizontal.
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I was trying some things and I had been shooting consistently to the right all groupings always seemed to go slightly right past 50 yds. I turned the scope so the top turret was on the left and the other turret was on top and the groups consistently hit point of aim. This was without touching the knobs for adj. I was thinking this meant the scope was not aligned with the bore. May have to play with barrel indexing.
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Michael,
Are you sire you need to index the barrel? I would think that perfectly straight barrels mounted such that they point exactly parallel to the direction of the centered scope are theoretically unlikely. What should be possible almost always is to bring the two into alignment by moving the scope, i.e. eliminating the scope cant, as scotchmo calls it.
Here is a great thread on the topic. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=72099.0
Are you sire you need to index the barrel? I would think that perfectly straight barrels mounted such that they point exactly parallel to the direction of the centered scope are theoretically unlikely. What should be possible almost always is to bring the two into alignment by moving the scope, i.e. eliminating the scope cant, as scotchmo calls it.
Here is a great thread on the topic. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=72099.0
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No I don't NEED to index the barrel. What I do need to do is spend some more time with the rifle. It is a fine shooting device.
I'm always looking for ways to squeeze the most accuracy out of my air guns. If it were simple then yes I would consider indexing it just to see the results.
I believe that most tuners would agree that if a barrel can be indexed, then it should be.
I'm always looking for ways to squeeze the most accuracy out of my air guns. If it were simple then yes I would consider indexing it just to see the results.
I believe that most tuners would agree that if a barrel can be indexed, then it should be.
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