Caiman vs Dreamline Pup
- Thread starter Hapo
- Start date
Not even in the same ballpark amigo...
The Dream pup on its Absolute worst day will out shoot, out trigger, out regulate, just plain and simple a Much better gun.
I can say that , i own and have owned both.. The caiman is the Only gun i have " given up " on and sent back to the dealer..
God knows i tried, and every time i got it close and thinking it was Okay-ish , it would lose it's mind and shoot like poop again... I did hear back from the tech at the the dealer telling the gun was " Possessed " ... Lol
Just speaking from my experience and wish you luck on whatever you decide.
The Dream pup on its Absolute worst day will out shoot, out trigger, out regulate, just plain and simple a Much better gun.
I can say that , i own and have owned both.. The caiman is the Only gun i have " given up " on and sent back to the dealer..
God knows i tried, and every time i got it close and thinking it was Okay-ish , it would lose it's mind and shoot like poop again... I did hear back from the tech at the the dealer telling the gun was " Possessed " ... Lol
Just speaking from my experience and wish you luck on whatever you decide.
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...IMHO wisdom can be hearing the voice of experience...
...that is not what I wanted to hear...LoL...
...I did a search for Caiman threads and got nothing...(?!?)...
...the things that put me off aboot the Dream Pup are the rearward location of the lever and the unsupported barrel and that is is an FX...
...the things that attract are the light weight and the FX barrel liners...
...the things that have me favoring the Caiman would be the size, CZ barrel, lever location, and wood...
...but not if it suks...!!!....
...that is not what I wanted to hear...LoL...
...I did a search for Caiman threads and got nothing...(?!?)...
...the things that put me off aboot the Dream Pup are the rearward location of the lever and the unsupported barrel and that is is an FX...
...the things that attract are the light weight and the FX barrel liners...
...the things that have me favoring the Caiman would be the size, CZ barrel, lever location, and wood...
...but not if it suks...!!!....
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Funny. MAYBE a bad one of the lot ??
I own a Caiman, and would not sell OR send it back. It's one of my top three favorite guns, and yeah, I own a few higher end guns..!
Very easy to shoot. Shoulders VERY nicely, easy to aim for offhand shooting. The trigger is as good as most and better than some. Removing the factory baffles, and installing the smaller 0dB suppressor, makes it nice and quiet. With a Steiner DRS1X sight on it, it's VERY easy to be accurate AND repeatable with it.
I don't own the Dream Pup, I do own the Wildcat III Compact. While I like the Wildcat, overall, I like the Caiman better.
Mike
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Mike,
Oh i get it amigo, i loved the way gun felt, and looked, but there really was some sort of issue with it..
I should be a little more forthcoming with what all i did trying to get it to shoot even moa groups at 33 yards , I ran the gammit of pellets through it , cleaned the hell out of the barrel , played with all so called" sweet spot " speeds per various pellet weights, etc..
I literally spent 1 solid week of running the gun , it just would not shoot anything better than moa, and i mean those moa groups were few and far between....
As i said the tech called it possessed laughingly , in the end he was as baffled as i was and did the Exact things i did.. at least it confirmed i was Not losing what is left of my feeble mind...
I am happy that yours worked out for you , and hopefully my experience was the Anomaly not the Norm..
Ya'll be safe and have fun !
Oh i get it amigo, i loved the way gun felt, and looked, but there really was some sort of issue with it..
I should be a little more forthcoming with what all i did trying to get it to shoot even moa groups at 33 yards , I ran the gammit of pellets through it , cleaned the hell out of the barrel , played with all so called" sweet spot " speeds per various pellet weights, etc..
I literally spent 1 solid week of running the gun , it just would not shoot anything better than moa, and i mean those moa groups were few and far between....
As i said the tech called it possessed laughingly , in the end he was as baffled as i was and did the Exact things i did.. at least it confirmed i was Not losing what is left of my feeble mind...
I am happy that yours worked out for you , and hopefully my experience was the Anomaly not the Norm..
Ya'll be safe and have fun !
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@bfloyd1095 didn’t you have the Caimen X? @mikevv has the Caimen not the Caimen X. Seems like there are regulator issues with the Caimen X
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...that is one reason I went with the Caiman...I really was just looking for an excuse...
...the way I understated it is that the regulator and valving are set up for the Caiman and not optimized for the larger tank and longer barrel of the Caiman X...
...one issue is that it does not shoot perfectly flat like one might expect form a regulated gun but gently slopes off 50 fps over 120 shots...
...another issue was that it was not practical to reset the regulator...
...I still have not found one on line review of the Caiman, just seen it mentioned, and one in a pigeon hunt...
...the way I understated it is that the regulator and valving are set up for the Caiman and not optimized for the larger tank and longer barrel of the Caiman X...
...one issue is that it does not shoot perfectly flat like one might expect form a regulated gun but gently slopes off 50 fps over 120 shots...
...another issue was that it was not practical to reset the regulator...
...I still have not found one on line review of the Caiman, just seen it mentioned, and one in a pigeon hunt...
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I love the Dreamline series to be honest, I have one with a saber tac. skeleton looking style and its amazing. And from my understanding the dream series is interchangeable. Lot of accessories lot of stock options (thats just the cosmetics) The .22 or .25 caliber which is what I run I can get great speeds on my 600mm and I think I have some pics of my shot groups all MOA. Ill have to look for the pic. The dream also has the ability to get really good tunes I can say im a little biased in this aspect as I dont own a Caiman just did some research. I think theres more options and variety with the Dream Line. And anyone can say what you want but not many liners match up against an FX Liner. (probably why people were trying to mod out their rifles with the superior or STX liner haha.)
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...Caiman arrived yesterday...I don't think I made a mistake...
...it is not like there are Deram Pups sitting around anyway...!!!...
...there was (is?) a Power Pup I briefly considered and passed on...
...some questions that I considered are what happens if I lean it against the wall...???...drop it...???...fall upon it maybe...???...
....the Caiman seems built more like a Lee Enfield SMLE rifle than a fragile contraption...
...the accuracy has been outstanding so far...much like the .0222" group this rifle fired at 30 yards @ Utah...
...1st world issues impaired the deal...the 1st world can be a bitch...!!!... (grin)
...for one thing Airmaks no longer sends the cheap air hose and they set up the gun for the wrong pellet...!!!...
...I actually wanted to send it back...LoL...I have no chronograph and was afraid I would surely mess up the adjustment...
...when I found out how easily adjusted this rifle is I was doubly glad I didn't get the FX...not that the FX is a problem but the Caiman it is even more simple to adjust...
...it is not awkward per se but bull pups are new to me and I am still figgering how to hold it...
...it feels a lot like a short rifle or something...it was great before I mounted a scope...
...the Alpha 6 scope does make it top heavy....a 36 oz scope on a 5.4 lbs rifle is apparently sub optimal...
...with the Donny FL Shogun and the Alpha 6 it weights 8.2 lbs loaded with 18.13 grain JSB's...like 2 lbs more than I'd hoped...
...I will have to try a smaller scope and a smaller can...
...now I need to figger out how to put a sling on this thing...is there a Caiman thread...???...
...it is not like there are Deram Pups sitting around anyway...!!!...
...there was (is?) a Power Pup I briefly considered and passed on...
...some questions that I considered are what happens if I lean it against the wall...???...drop it...???...fall upon it maybe...???...
....the Caiman seems built more like a Lee Enfield SMLE rifle than a fragile contraption...
...the accuracy has been outstanding so far...much like the .0222" group this rifle fired at 30 yards @ Utah...
...1st world issues impaired the deal...the 1st world can be a bitch...!!!... (grin)
...for one thing Airmaks no longer sends the cheap air hose and they set up the gun for the wrong pellet...!!!...
...I actually wanted to send it back...LoL...I have no chronograph and was afraid I would surely mess up the adjustment...
...when I found out how easily adjusted this rifle is I was doubly glad I didn't get the FX...not that the FX is a problem but the Caiman it is even more simple to adjust...
...it is not awkward per se but bull pups are new to me and I am still figgering how to hold it...
...it feels a lot like a short rifle or something...it was great before I mounted a scope...
...the Alpha 6 scope does make it top heavy....a 36 oz scope on a 5.4 lbs rifle is apparently sub optimal...
...with the Donny FL Shogun and the Alpha 6 it weights 8.2 lbs loaded with 18.13 grain JSB's...like 2 lbs more than I'd hoped...
...I will have to try a smaller scope and a smaller can...
...now I need to figger out how to put a sling on this thing...is there a Caiman thread...???...
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The only thing that pisses me off about the Caiman guns...they don't come with a filler port plug, at least mine didn't. And they cost $10 to buy, for a damn piece pf plastic.
Other than that I really like mine. Zero complaints. And yeah, I've owned, and still own, true bullpup powder burners, so I'm plenty used to shooting them To me, there is LITTLE difference in shooting a bullpup and a standard rifle. Except, that I like shooting the little guns better ! Easy transition from one to the other.
On my Caiman, I removed all of the factory baffles and installed the short, small diameter 0dB suppressor on it. It's MUCH quieter, and just a little longer than having all of the original baffles in place. I put two of the Caiman baffles onto my Caiman X. That helped quiet it a "little" more, without adding too much length. The 0dB "fits" the Caiman, size wise.
Mike
Note - I now own both the Caiman and the Caiman X. Wasn't supposed to happen, but it did ! I haven't noticed a regulator problem. No noticeable creap, and pretty similar shot to shot speeds. At least the ones that I tested shortly after buying the "X" version.
Other than that I really like mine. Zero complaints. And yeah, I've owned, and still own, true bullpup powder burners, so I'm plenty used to shooting them To me, there is LITTLE difference in shooting a bullpup and a standard rifle. Except, that I like shooting the little guns better ! Easy transition from one to the other.
On my Caiman, I removed all of the factory baffles and installed the short, small diameter 0dB suppressor on it. It's MUCH quieter, and just a little longer than having all of the original baffles in place. I put two of the Caiman baffles onto my Caiman X. That helped quiet it a "little" more, without adding too much length. The 0dB "fits" the Caiman, size wise.
Mike
Note - I now own both the Caiman and the Caiman X. Wasn't supposed to happen, but it did ! I haven't noticed a regulator problem. No noticeable creap, and pretty similar shot to shot speeds. At least the ones that I tested shortly after buying the "X" version.
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...does it bother your ear to shoot it w/o hearing protection...???....
...mine has a loud ping...I may have a sealing issue as I heard something of a pop a few times...
...I started to notice after a few shots...
...the trigger reminds me of the AP16...
...mine has a loud ping...I may have a sealing issue as I heard something of a pop a few times...
...I started to notice after a few shots...
...the trigger reminds me of the AP16...
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All bullpups except for impact has that PING in the ear, this is why I will only own impact bullpups. You can and should wear an ear plug in the ear against the action. Lost hearing won’t find its way back.
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qball -
Soo...you've shot ALL...bullpup rifles ? Sounds like a pretty bold statement there ! How many times and with what other ambient sounds ?
It's really strange how a little oil here and there not only smooths things, but also "dampens" other sounds ! I hear just fine, and have little to no "extra" sounds coming from the back of either of my Caimans.
No earplugs required, again, either of mine.
Hapo - Sorry if I helped direct you to a gun that it turns out that you don't like.
Mike
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...there are many things I like aboot it...I am put off by the ping that is apparently endemic to the type...
...I suppose it is possible that the o ring sealing the bolt is not quite right but the gun seems to shoot very well...
...my Air Force rifle pings loudly but my ear is not up against the hammer...skull conductance is minimal...
...I am very much not liking that aspect of the Caiman but I mostly will carry it, not shoot it, and probably will drop it or bang it against something more often than I shoot it...
...I am considering something like a Daystate Huntsman and forsaking the bull pup concept...
...I suppose it is possible that the o ring sealing the bolt is not quite right but the gun seems to shoot very well...
...my Air Force rifle pings loudly but my ear is not up against the hammer...skull conductance is minimal...
...I am very much not liking that aspect of the Caiman but I mostly will carry it, not shoot it, and probably will drop it or bang it against something more often than I shoot it...
...I am considering something like a Daystate Huntsman and forsaking the bull pup concept...
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Hapo -
Took both the Caiman and the "X" apart.
There is room for some sound deadening material on only one side. The top and the left (at the shoulder) of the receiver is touching the wood, so there's no room for anything to kill the sound. While it "may" help a little to add something there on the left side, I doubt it would make it quiet enough. Part of the reason that it is noisy, is because the receiver, like I said, is actually touching the stock (both of my guns). So any vibration (noise!) is transfered right to the stock. Plus that big pin that holds the stock..!
Maybe some clearancing may help, I didn't check to see how thick the wood is on the top section.
Interesting to see how the two different guns are held together. The Caiman, stock (upper to lower) is pinned in four places with small pins. The "X" is located by four, much larger pins, with nothing in the back and two, in the front.
Mike
Took both the Caiman and the "X" apart.
There is room for some sound deadening material on only one side. The top and the left (at the shoulder) of the receiver is touching the wood, so there's no room for anything to kill the sound. While it "may" help a little to add something there on the left side, I doubt it would make it quiet enough. Part of the reason that it is noisy, is because the receiver, like I said, is actually touching the stock (both of my guns). So any vibration (noise!) is transfered right to the stock. Plus that big pin that holds the stock..!
Maybe some clearancing may help, I didn't check to see how thick the wood is on the top section.
Interesting to see how the two different guns are held together. The Caiman, stock (upper to lower) is pinned in four places with small pins. The "X" is located by four, much larger pins, with nothing in the back and two, in the front.
Mike
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Though not from first hand experience Airmaks seems to have got (for their first try) their guns pretty good from the start. Though, and I think many feel this it is confusing why AirMaks didn't do either Caimen version in a synthetic stock. I wonder how much it would cost to have one built?
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