Bullysyclone Wylie Kanz moderators... throw everything else in the trash.

[EddieG]

Donate a decibel meter to me and I will. Fact is, it took my hps from not backyard friendly for most peoples back yards to very backyard friendly for everyones. Shooting mrd at 955 fps.

I don't believe donny fl, 0db, or even huggett provide any actual numbers ... what made you buy theirs?

Now that would be quite the donation! I considered getting a dB meter until I can across an article about using them for testing moderators. The typical dB meters used for measuring industrial type background noise are pretty much useless for measuring short duration, high impulse sound waves (like gun shots). The meters to measure these types of sounds start about $5k. No thanks! So what to do? How about a forum where people with similar interests share first hand experiences. Thanks for a great review. You've got me excited and I don't even need one!

 

[dens228]

Why are you so easily offended by the request of a video and or proof behind the claims prior to purchasing? I am interested *IF* the damn thing does what OP claims...yikes.

-Matt

I'm not offended at all. The constant back and forth bickering and jabs at each other while getting nowhere gets old. Just because someone gets tired of watching two grown men bicker back and forth on the internet doesn't mean they're offended. LOL

 

[IRBent]

I believe the definition of a decibel, or the difference between a change of 10 decibels is perceived as 2x, or twice as loud. Watching quite a few videos with people using decibel meters I rarely can hear the difference in loudness, but I can often detect a pitch difference when the meter shows maybe a 2 decibel change. Albeit audio recordings by a camera is often inferior to being there, so even if someone tossed up video, some of us may not be able to hear the difference.

 

[ctshooter]

I believe the definition of a decibel, or the difference between a change of 10 decibels is perceived as 2x, or twice as loud. Watching quite a few videos with people using decibel meters I rarely can hear the difference in loudness, but I can often detect a pitch difference when the meter shows maybe a 2 decibel change. Albeit audio recordings by a camera is often inferior to being there, so even if someone tossed up video, some of us may not be able to hear the difference.

Yes - it also matters where you place the sound meter and letting people know that information as well. I typically place my phone app about 2-3' to the side and ~1' behind the muzzle. This helps me understand what I am hearing. If you place it 20' forward and 20' to the side then your readings and mine can't be compared at all. Too often read people posting dB numbers to show how quiet their rifle is, but if I don't know where the mic is then I have no way to relate that number.

 

[Revoman]

Nice diffusion from the non-proof getting!
I want to know if it's 10x quieter or not?

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Nice diffusion from the non-proof getting!
I want to know if it's 10x quieter or not?
View attachment 364037

It is.

No diffusion, just me further proving my point, like I wasn't at work or something all day lol.

A few people here have gotten video, they're not grumps though

 

[Revoman]

That's okay, the truth will eventually come out.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

That's okay, the truth will eventually come out.

Science states that a change in DB by the count of 10 from a given number is 10 times louder, this IS SCIENCE, this IS FACT. This is a way of counting or measuring something that increases rapidly, or exponentially. So every increase of 10 dB on the decibel scale is equal to a 10-fold increase in sound pressure level (SPL) which is what Db measures). Near silence is 0 dB but a sound measured at 10 dB is actually 10 times louder, If a sound is 20 dB, that's 100 times louder than near silence.

Now onto the happy portion

I really actually truly appreciate all of you haters and naysayers @HogKiller , @Revoman , @Stubbers because youve forced myself to become more educated on something I had zero intention of becoming more educated on. I urge you all to do exactly the same!

 

[Dairyboy]

Wow people these days lol. Why the hell would someone really need to waste $20 on a POS dB reader for something he would use once to appease some people that think the info is owed to them. I see people make claims all the time but the response to this has been a little ridiculous. If it was a DonnyFL or Huggett or something people wouldn't bat an eye from what I've seen in the past. I've talked with John in the past and the stories he told me and what he all does is very impressive. I don't doubt the Mods are precision built LDCs. Can't say any of the mass produced ones out there are from my personal ownership. It has me interested in getting one for my Evol, also top notch precision built machines.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

Wow people these days lol. Why the hell would someone really need to waste $20 on a POS dB reader for something he would use once to appease some people that think the info is owed to them. I see people make claims all the time but the response to this has been a little ridiculous. If it was a DonnyFL or Huggett or something people wouldn't bat an eye from what I've seen in the past. I've talked with John in the past and the stories he told me and what he all does is very impressive. I don't doubt the Mods are precision built LDCs. Can't say any of the mass produced ones out there are from my personal ownership. It has me interested in getting one for my Evol, also top notch precision built machines.

@Dairyboy thanks for that! if interested in a video I do have one albeit not the best due to situation and equipment used.

His work is top notch, from the adapter to the muzzle end of the mod, just great stuff man!

 

[HogKiller]

Now that would be quite the donation! I considered getting a dB meter until I can across an article about using them for testing moderators. The typical dB meters used for measuring industrial type background noise are pretty much useless for measuring short duration, high impulse sound waves (like gun shots). The meters to measure these types of sounds start about $5k. No thanks! So what to do? How about a forum where people with similar interests share first hand experiences. Thanks for a great review. You've got me excited and I don't even need one!

I don't feel you have to be 100% accurate, I don't want to spend that kind of money either BUT, I've compared my iPhone with my inexpensive sound meter, they are within 2db, close enough. Taking a few measurements with mo mod, then with mods give you some data, scientifically accurate, probably not but a reduction, OR increase is still a data point and can be more useful than saying, 'it doesn't sound as loud' Is a sound meter going to tell you if it's not as sharp as it was, no, your ear does that, or you spend a ton of money to see the actual impulse wave.

 

[karl_h]

I think a lot of people are confusing DB's with different definitions. There is power, electrical and pyschoacoustic. 3db increase is roughly double the sound power , 6db is roughly double the electrical voltage, and 10 db is the generally accepted(not scientific in any way) double what the human ear recognizes as twice as loud. In a reasonably quiet environment, most humans can discern a 3db increase in sound power. Not everyone can discern a 2 db change in power unless in an extremely quiet environment, about 1.5 db power change is the limit to almost any human discerning a difference in an anechoic chamber, and that is very rare.

The frequency spectrum complicates matters a lot since the human ear starts to become extremely ineficient below a couple thousand herz or above 6k herz. Add to that different frequencies propagate through the air differently. You could listen to a 1khz tone at 10 times the power of a 2.5khz tone and think it is quieter, just human perception.

To even begin accurately measuring impulse noise, your sample rate needs to be less than 30 microseconds, 1 microsecond = 1/1000ths of a millisecond, military standard is 20 microseconds, and of course you need a microphone/amp/associated equipment with a very low noise floor and a high signal to noise ratio. As someone else mentioned, you generally/easily can't get there for less than a few thousand dollars, although if you limit top end to 120-130 ish db you can get somewhat close for just a thousand or so, but close is still wrong. There is no phone/camera/app that can come close, it will be orders of magnitude off.

 

[OldSpook]

Lets talk a little common sense here, shall we?

First if a meter has a problem measuring some part of a signal and you use it to measure two different signal generators. The problem is identical and can be ignored. If one signal is louder, that same signal will still be louder. If you cut an ounce out of a potato and you cut an ounce out of another potato the heavier of the two will still be the heavier of the two. Honestly, given the caliber of expertise asserted in this thread it should not be necessary to explain that.

What does that mean? Simply put it means you can compare apples to apples without a microscope. For the OP if you don't want to do that just say so. If you are afraid that your buddies moderator isn't going to fare as well as you hope then just say it. If you have already tested it and it hasn't worked out as well as you expected, just say so. This enormously long and foolish discussion is become exceedingly tedious. You have tediously long explanations as to why you think it is a waste of time to provide any other information than your opinion. It is embarrassing.

For all you audio geniuses with a gozillion years lab experience, see paragraph one and then explain to me why that is not correct. I will wait.

Meanwhile, I asked a simple question, I'd really be interested in the builders thoughts on design. I had hoped we would hear a bit more about that but I suppose it is "TOP SECRET CODE WORD"?

This is getting just ridiculous.

Regarding "accuracy of measurement". The sort of accuracy which is being kicked around here is MEANINGLESS in practical applications BECAUSE you don't know what sensor is going to be listening. It might be a dog's sensor, or a human's. It might be your deaf neighbor or your owl across the yard. All of those are different sensors which will give different results from your super accurate, lab grade, anechoic chamber ... What does that tell you? Generally it suggests you should trust your ears and perhaps the ears of someone else some distance away. Sadly that doesn't make my test portable to your environment. So we are back to the perfectly reasonable assertion that a cellphone microphone with this application is good enough to compare apples to apples. It is a COMPARATIVE MEASUREMENT USING THE SAME SENSOR: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/noise/app.html

If you don't want to use it, don't, but stop equivocating.

 

[_CTAIRGUNNER_]

I paid a hefty (albeit worth it) price for this thing... i have zero to gain here.

My explanations are tediously long while a 1/4 the length of your last post lol?

I literally spent 1 hour shooting Sunday, trying to capture what needed to be captured , in the very crude video I shared with a few there was almost no good time to capture sound levels, dogs barking, cars driving by and the pellet hitting the target being louder than the noise made from the rifle.

So I'm going to end this here, buy one or don't. I brought it with me to a local shop that does quite a bit of business and they were so impressed they want to start retailing it.

I don't know what I'm doing truly but these are the two readings I got.

First one shown at 90db was the shot with the factory 6.25 inch hps moderator

Second picture has the shot around 82 to 84 decibels it looks like with the smaller , lighter 4 inch Wylie Kanz moderator meant for my evol mini.

The phone was placed about 40 feet in front of the rifle so my 35 to 40 seconds of tooling to swap moderators would not interfere with the metering. Unsure if this is right or wrong.

With that said sitting behind the rifle it is much more apparent as to what this moderator is doing, to my ears.

At this point I'm just bowing out. Lol never in my life have I seen such a lack of support for someone trying to bring great work to our hobby. Nobody questions anyone else's claims on a moderator in any thread I've seen , like I've seen here. Maybe my choice of words is just too colorful for the soft handed trophy gun queens ?

 

[OldSpook]

You'd be right about the length of my posts if I had posted twenty five posts explaining my opinion.

So you MEASURED a 6 dB difference between the two shots. That's pretty good. Three deciBels is a halving of the aggregate audio power measured. So the second measurement means your friends moderator cuts the power by a factor of 4 better than the stock moderator in 62% of the length. Again that is pretty good. While I am not going to spend $180 for that kind of performance (because I am price sensitive) that does not mean someone else (or many other folks for that matter) won't. That remains to be seen. He does very nice looking work and the moderator seems to work exceptionally well given the form factor.

Now was that really all that hard?

 

[plinky]

Are these on any website or is there a photo dump anywhere? Or only through whispers? I am interested in checking 1 out for an evol mini.

 

[Bigragu]

My plain old Hugget Snipe surprised the heck out of me this last week at RMAC. I was so used to the somewhat loud rapport while shooting out thru a garage window this past year while practicing, and to me, my discharge sound using the Snipe isn’t loud, but it sure isn’t quiet, either. But all that changed when I shot outside.
When I took my first sighter shot on day 1 of the qualifications, I thought something was wrong with the gun it was sooo quiet. I even asked onlookers what they thought of the rapport and they all said super quiet, especially for a 30 cal. Punches on paper told me all was good. My point with all of this is make sure all tests with any moderator for sound should be free of side walls, fences, etc, and really, the human ear should be all that’s needed

 

[beerthief]

yeah i shoot outside my cement basement wall 5 feet to my right , and it extends to my 15 meter target .

 

[trinan]

I have a background in acoustics, physics, and electrical engineering, and it's really difficult to measure impulse sound in any meaningful way-- a way that has significance for comparing perceived loudness. And it's not happening with some "phone app"-- good luck with that. You need special microphones, maybe an oscilloscope. Special environment, and so forth.

Such measurements may be out there, but every one I've seen comparing firearm suppressors was useless.

Give me a grant and I'll do the work to measure these things properly. Half a mill ought to do it. : )

Seriously though, subjectively people listening and comparing the shots reasonably close in time-- that's better than (most? all?) of the "scientific" measurements bandied about.

Addendum: Will modern wonders never cease! Looks like B&K has a kit for doing exactly this. It may be overkill for airguns, as they are much quieter than firearms inherently, and if you have to ask for a price quote, it's not going to be cheap. Probably not easy to use and understand, either. FWIW: https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2018/07/18/impulse-noise/

Impulse Noise Evaluation System | Brüel & Kjær

This solution is all you need to accurately measure impulse noise such as gun noise according to MIL-STD-1474-D and MIL-STD-1474-E.

www.bksv.com

 

[Arrowit28]

Looks to be a solid Moderator. Nice job